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Outgoing IRS Chief: Taxes Voluntary

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posted on May, 19 2013 @ 01:56 PM
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Now my two cents. I heard it from someone that I respect very much for his little tidbits of knowledge like this. There is only one reason that we pay taxes. No it is not free medical and other social issues. No it is not to pay the military and the police. No it is not to pay the government to keep it going. We pay taxes to keep the IRS off of our backs. The IRS is a protection racket, no better than the mob.
Now that I have said that I want to give you my opinion the 16th amendment (income tax). The amendment states that "The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States." Look close, who can collect Taxes??? The same people that can lay the Taxes, the Congress. Who collects your taxes?? The IRS. The IRS falls under the Department of the Treasury. The Treasury falls under the department of the President. There is no Constitutional authority that allows the President to collect Taxes. That is why I think that the IRS is nothing but a bunch of thugs and extortionist.




posted on May, 19 2013 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by Bhadhidar
reply to post by SuperSeeds
 


With regard to the term "voluntary" in the IRC, as I previously stated, it is only due to a (perhaps willfull) mis-reading of the Code that would lead one to conclude that the payment of taxes is a matter of choice.


So we should all be up to date on every little bit of legislation they pass so as to avoid misreading and harming ourselves. BULLCRAP

If their # doesnt make any sense thats their problem. They dont dictate how the english language is used.

And again that little bit is IRRELEVANT, theres a number of reason why income tax returns as a contract is completey voidable; With-holding of material facts, undue inluence, misrepresentation, coercion take your pick



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 02:13 PM
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Of course theyre voluntary, just ask any politician, mega corporation or rich person.
2nd.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 02:13 PM
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"Constitution": The document supposedly setting forth the foundations of a "country" and "its" "government," has no inherent authority or obligation. A "constitution" has no authority or obligation at all, unless as a contract between two or more individuals, and then it is limited only to those individuals who have specifically entered into it. At most, such a document could be a contract between the existing people at the time of its creation, but no-one has the right, authority, or power to bind their posterity. I have not knowingly, voluntarily and intentionally entered into any such "constitution" contract to oblige myself thereby, therefore such a document is inapplicable to me, and anyone claiming to derive their "authority" from such a document has no "jurisdiction" over me.


Something to think about in regards to "constitutions"




It is a perversion of terms to say that a charter gives rights. It operates by a contrary effect — that of taking rights away. Rights are inherently in all the inhabitants; but charters, by annulling those rights, in the majority, leave the right, by exclusion, in the hands of a few. ... They...consequently are instruments of injustice. The fact therefore must be that the individuals themselves, each in his own personal and sovereign right, entered into a contract with each other to produce a government: and this is the only mode in which governments have a right to arise, and the only principle on which they have a right to exist.

edit on 19-5-2013 by SuperSeeds because: meep meep



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO
 


Of course it's voluntary. It's always been voluntary since day one. But there's hardly any choice to make when the choices are voluntarily paying taxes or being thrown in prison.

Or, as Bill Hicks said, "You are free, to do what we tell you!"



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 02:36 PM
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Sounds like you voluntarily HAVE to pay your taxes to me.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by Another_Nut
ahh taxes my bane.
So follow my advice. Sell everything you can .buy a nice rv or van and live your life free.


Yeh..but you still have to pay sales tax to buy that rv.


And you still have to pay sales tax to buy gas for that rv.

You pay sales tax whenever you spend your money.

Government got u , whichever way you turn.

To completely escape, you've got to go live in the forest, plant your own crops, fish in the river, etc...still you've got to buy that "ax" to chop the firewood, and unless you know about blacksmithing , you're going to have to buy some things from the nearest town.

Can't escape the taxman.

He has woven his tax into the very fabric of all of our life, and constantly looking for more things to tax. Now I hear they are going to tax the internet. Soon, they'll tax you to post on ATS.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 02:41 PM
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Well it is sort of voluntary because you could always renounce your citizenship. No one is forcing you to stay here.


edit on 19-5-2013 by WaterBottle because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 02:52 PM
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A very good documentary about this very subject by the late Aaron Russo

America: Freedom to Fascism

www.youtube.com...




He also made a few more interesting claims.
edit on 19-5-2013 by Horus12 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by DataWraith
Of course theyre voluntary, just ask any politician, mega corporation or rich person.
2nd.


Yes, it's voluntary.

However, it's a crime to lie, or make false statements to the IRS, so when they ask you, you've got to tell the truth.

The whole trick, then, is to avoid the questioning.

You have the right to remain silent, anything you say may be used against you in a court of law.

The problem, is how to remain silent, when you're being pestered with questions by the IRS.

The rich have a trick. They put most of their money offshore, in secret accounts, and simply remain silent about it.

They exercise their right, not to say anything that may be used against them in court.

Privacy, secrecy, and silence.

These are the legal ways to reduce the tax bill.

But, once the privacy is breached, or the secret is out, or the silence is broken, you've got to come clean, tell no lies, and pay up.

The fool tells everybody that he's paying no taxes, and it's legal to do like him, because taxes is voluntary.

It's only legal to pay no tax, if nobody knows.

All persons are presumed innocent, until proven guilty, in a court of law.

So, all actions you take, are legal, and remain so, until and unless a court decides that some law was broken.

Only a judge and/or jury, can label an action "illegal". So, once you don't have to stand before a judge and/or jury, then all you do is legal. Anyone who disagrees, is simply rendering their personal "opinion". And in this society, opinion is not fact.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by SQUEALER

Originally posted by Another_Nut
ahh taxes my bane.
So follow my advice. Sell everything you can .buy a nice rv or van and live your life free.


Yeh..but you still have to pay sales tax to buy that rv.


And you still have to pay sales tax to buy gas for that rv.

You pay sales tax whenever you spend your money.

Government got u , whichever way you turn.

To completely escape, you've got to go live in the forest, plant your own crops, fish in the river, etc...still you've got to buy that "ax" to chop the firewood, and unless you know about blacksmithing , you're going to have to buy some things from the nearest town.

Can't escape the taxman.

He has woven his tax into the very fabric of all of our life, and constantly looking for more things to tax. Now I hear they are going to tax the internet. Soon, they'll tax you to post on ATS.



Kinda true. I try to barter for everything.

Buy a used tv or van . No taxes.

They do get me on sales tax . But that's mostly local and I love my state.

I escape / just dont pay any tax I can avoid.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by MrPlow
 





You can refuse to buy such food. In fact, they have an app for that now that helps you identify such food. It's called BUYCOTT...Pretty cool. Check it out.

You can also refuse to join the military.
But, if you are working and earning greenbacks - you legally cannot refuse to pay taxes.
You can only refuse to participate by NOT earning Government issued bank notes


I would bet this is why they are going after bit coin so hard recently. You could in theory choose to be paid out in BTC and never pay a dime in taxes. Once that catches on you can bet BTC and other unregulated non governmental currencies will be outlawed.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 04:06 PM
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While taxes are poorly managed, and complex beyond the means of the makers of those taxes to even understand, they are still necessary.

And while perhaps you think we'd be a better country without schools, fire, police, roads, defense, etc... I would have to disagree. If no American paid taxes, our country would utterly fall apart. So, we need them. But they are far too complex, and in many cases, unfair. Entire system should be revised / redone.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 04:10 PM
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Man when I said people are either strongly opposed to these ideas or miss the point I didnt realize how right I was. Voluntary means VOLUNTARY so to all the people saying you can volunteer to pay or go to jail, thats obviously not what voluntary means. If they could make it mandatory, I dont think theres any question they would. And you dont have to renounce your citizenship nor do you have to love it or leave it! People can have dual citizenship cant they??

Canada and the US are commercial jurisdictions on the land, they are not the land and no they dont own the land either. Theyre just on the land just like you and me, difference is you and me are natural born flesh and blood human beings created by god. Man created government, we f#$%d up...but it still our creation, do you see where im going with this...........Government has as much jurisdiction/authority over us as we have over god. Government has no jurisdiction over your natural person unless someone can point to an actual injury/injured party.

Thats why they need you to fill the shoes of and perfom for the legal person, something they created and are liable for.

No ones denying the existence or validity of mans natural inherent rights SO why then are there so many people in jail right now for victimless crimes??

Hell you can keep your social security number not use it and still work for an employer that is still a slave to the Gov., its not always easy but is perfectly do-able... hint: private contract for services

But definitely stop using all that Gov. issued stuff as ID they even tell you not to!! AND GET YOU LIVE BIRTH RECORD the only thing that evidences you as a human being, something they dont have jurisdiction over. I didnt even have a birth cert. for most of my life just a certified copy of the LBR, its the only thing you have with THEIR signature on in, everything has your signature on it.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by fleabit
 


I think you seriously need to look into the history of income tax. I dont know about you but I definitely dont want any of my labor going to fuel the war machine

And as for gas tax, the Gov uses that to maintain OUR roads, if you ever paid gas taxes you own a share of the roads.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO
 

Income tax is indeed voluntary, if you know what you are.

I haven't filed an income tax return since 1997. I haven't had withholdings since 2009. The code says what it says, and it does not say what it does not say. Withholdings are only for 'employees', which is very narrowly defined in

3401 (c) EMPLOYEE
For purposes of this chapter, the term "employee" includes an officer,
employee, or elected official of the United States, a State, or any political
subdivision thereof, or the District of Columbia, or any agency or
instrumentality of any one or more of the foregoing. The term "employee"
also includes an officer of a corporation.


The word 'includes' is used in its limiting sense, on purpose. Notice that the word 'employee' is used in the definition as well as being the word defined. Unless this is a circular definition (forbidden by the rules of grammar of every commonly spoken language), the word being defined, "Employee" as used in that chapter (26, the IRS code) ONLY means the following: an officer, employee, or elected official of the United States, a State, or any political subdivision thereof, or the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of any one or more of the foregoing. The term "employee" also includes an officer of a corporation.

Here's the catch: when you affirm that the SSN on the card that you carry is 'yours', you define yourself as the officer of the corporation sole known by YOUR NAME (in all caps). Therefore, your behind belongs to da man. Don't complain when it hurts, because you asked for it!

If you want more info, please ask me in PM and I will send you a link to a pdf that will unravel the web of lies that has been woven around the word 'voluntary'.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by MrPlow
All of you are making incorrect analogies and correlations here.

1) Congress is allowed, by law to lay and collect taxes. It's called the 16th Amendment.

2) Yes, taxes are voluntary.

3) You volunteer to pay those taxes once you decide to participate as a contributing member of society. (i.e. - getting a job, investments, buying a piece of land, etc)

4) If you decide that you do NOT want to be a part of normal society, than you are under no compulsion to pay any taxes - as you are not playing with others using Government issued bank notes.

So, in essence - what they are saying is very clear and very true.
They're just under-explaining what they mean when they say "taxes are voluntarily....you must pay your taxes"

It's not double talk - it's just not being fully explained.


^ Its as simple as the above. Couldn't have said it better mah-self. Voluntary participation. Reporting earnings is also on the honor system ....its when you get caught lying that laws are enforced and punishments issued.
edit on 19-5-2013 by WilliamOckham because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by Another_Nut
ahh taxes my bane.

Well here is my story . im 35 . And working homeless.

I don't pay taxes. and I haven't since I was 20 or so.

So the government took away my electrical license and told me I couldn't work.

So I work "under the table". Live in my van.

And completely ignore the government.

If even 25% of the population put their money where their mouth is ( like i have done) we wouldn't be in half the mess we are.

So follow my advice. Sell everything you can .buy a nice rv or van and live your life free.




Ahh, wish I could brother. As long as I have a scared wife and young kids, I'm on lockdown. Maybe someday when they have taken everything away, or the system comes to a grinding halt, will I be free. Rock on!!



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by SuperSeeds
Man when I said people are either strongly opposed to these ideas or miss the point I didnt realize how right I was. Voluntary means VOLUNTARY so to all the people saying you can volunteer to pay or go to jail, thats obviously not what voluntary means.


Voluntary means what is says, it's up to you to volunteer the information to the IRS and to send in your check.

Unlike the Electric company, which sends a man around to your home periodically to collect info on how much electricity you've used this month, reading your meter involuntarily, the IRS doesn't send someone around every quarter to collect the information from you. They let you "volunteer" the information.

That's the sense in which taxes are voluntary.

Nor does the IRS try to collect taxes from everybody who doesn't pay up. They pick a subset of people to go after.

The electric company, on the other hand, goes after every single individual who doesn't pay his electric bill.

The electric bill payment is not voluntary.

Three tests prove why:

(1) they send a man around to collect the info themselves, and don't rely on you to provide it.

(2) you have to pay the bill when they send the invoice

(3) all non-payers are prosecuted and forced to make their back-payments

Taxes is voluntary because:

(1) nobody comes to collect info from you periodically, you volunteer to provide it when you have it

(2) you don't have to pay the tax bill, you can take your chances of being audited or not, ir's a risk

(3) not all non-payers are made to pay, only a select few are chosen to make examples of, and forced to pay up

That's voluntary.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 07:08 PM
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A very, very very good documentary on this exact issue on whether taxes are voluntary...

Well worth a look.

Aaron Russo's - "America From Freedom To Fascism"





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