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Outgoing IRS Chief: Taxes Voluntary

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posted on May, 19 2013 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by signalfire
Slightly off topic, but I've always wondered what happens if you're audited and it turns out you're insane, demented, or memory-impaired. What does the nice IRS auditor do? Tell you to pay your bill, when you don't have the money or stick you in jail? Really...?

So many of our problems would be solved if people refused to buy the Monsanto food and refused to file or pay the 'tax bills' and refused to join the armed forces.


You can refuse to buy such food. In fact, they have an app for that now that helps you identify such food. It's called BUYCOTT...Pretty cool. Check it out.

You can also refuse to join the military.
But, if you are working and earning greenbacks - you legally cannot refuse to pay taxes.
You can only refuse to participate by NOT earning Government issued bank notes




posted on May, 19 2013 @ 11:31 AM
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That's IRS snake-speak. It is voluntary, and you volunteer yourself for prison and wage slavery if you don't do them. Much like you volunteer yourself to a life of hell if you break other laws of the land. Like you voluntarily join the military and voluntarily go to the hospital. It's your volition to do it, they won't force you.

A few years of not volunteering, after working the jobs, they will find out and take that voluntary stuff away. That new cyber command place in Denver? Yeah, your taxes paid for it and the IRS is going to be a big fan of that place. They're going to be all over your online purchasing taxes.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 11:33 AM
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ahh taxes my bane.

Well here is my story . im 35 . And working homeless.

I don't pay taxes. and I haven't since I was 20 or so.

So the government took away my electrical license and told me I couldn't work.

So I work "under the table". Live in my van.

And completely ignore the government.

If even 25% of the population put their money where their mouth is ( like i have done) we wouldn't be in half the mess we are.

So follow my advice. Sell everything you can .buy a nice rv or van and live your life free.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 11:38 AM
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OK lets see just how deeply programmed some of you are, Ive only ever seen a couple threads on ats about this and its amazing how strongly opposed some people are to these ideas and the people who are open usually miss the point or just dont see the implications. INCOME TAX IS ABSOLUTELY VOLUNTARY....same goes for your Government issued drivers license.

Despite the current police state transformation going on down in the US we still live in a free society where the the individual still has a natural right to freedom, same goes for Canada and every other common law country. It is true, Government and higher ups(Steve Miller) know it, they just dont let you know it.

When being penalized under some statutory BS how many of you have ever asked yourself or the issuing policy enforcer; "When did I ever agree to this #?"

Pretty good question right? Cause it seems to me that if I dont have a say in the matter then I dont have an inherent right to contract and am therefore a slave...i.e. subject...i.e. citizen. Citizen is just the new word for subject, you belong to the state.

"But wait, im a citizen and you said we still live in a free society? This is my homeland I was born here and I dont remember having any say in the matter, are you saying I was born into shackles?"

No definitely not, but they were very quickly and quietly imposed on you or issued I should say... At the hospital when you were born your parents filled out a Live Birth Record or Statement of Live Birth or something similar, it goes by many names but is the only document that evidences you as a human being. Everything else is a legal fiction, the birth certificate, drivers license, social security, passport all of it and legal fictions dont have rights they have privileges. They are capacities that exist in association with you, THEY ARE NOT YOU. Rights that are unalienable dont come from any charter or constitution as Government cannot provide anything unalienable.

The heart of the scam lies in the fact that at all times you are PRESUMED to be acting in at least one of these capacities and therefore SUBJECT to the authority of the Gov., their courts and their agents. So unless you REBUT these presumptions you are CONSENTING to their authority. SO YES, INCOME TAX IS ABSOLUTELY VOLUNTARY

They will test you thoroughly but a presumption is essentially a claim and since THEY are the ones making the claim the burden of proof lies with them....

Every individual possesses supreme authority and sovereignty over their own choices, without interference of governing powers, provided they have not violated the rights of others and that each person enjoys over himself and his property, full and exclusive rights of control and use, and therefore owes no service or product to anyone else that he has not contracted to supply.......There can be no crime without an injured party......

Is any of this getting thru ?



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 12:14 PM
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Oh for crying out loud, not again!

Will you all PLEASE "Study-Up" on a topic Before you deign to spit forth your ignorant two cents worth of drivel!


The term "Voluntary", when used in conjuction with the the Internal Revenue tax code (IRC) is used as "legal terminology", not as vernacular (big word, has a specific meaning, look it up!).


When used with regard to the collection of income taxes in the United States, the term "Voluntary" is meant to infer that taxes owed are collected "at a time other than when they are actually owed".


NOT, that you have the "Choice" to pay or not to pay the taxes owed!!


Again, for those of you who may not have caught the distinction:

"Voluntary", in the collection of taxes in the United States, refers to When you are required to pay the taxes you owe, NOT Whether you are required to pay them!



The IRC specifies that income taxes are "voluntary" in that they are not collected when they are actually owed, which would be at the time the the income which is subject to taxation is earned; they are instead collected at a later, agreed upon, date (typically, April 15th of each year).

If your taxes were Compulsory, instead of merely voluntary, the tax you owe would be automatically Paid (not just "withheld") to the Government, without any input or opportunity for you to dispute (Flat Tax, anyone?).

You would thus be "Compelled" to pay the tax owed, when it was owed.


To Re-cap:

With reagrd to Taxation,

Compulsory = Pay Now
Voluntary = Pay Later

The term "voluntary, when used in the Internal Revenue Code (IRC) is a Legal Term which referes to the timing of the collection of taxes due, not the vernacular usage, which would refer to the choice to pay taxes owed.


Is that all clear?

At last?



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 12:24 PM
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Yes they do redefine just about every word in the dictionary to something completely different than the common usage in one Act or another. But I would suggest not wasting your time with THEIR definitions, I doubt wethert Steve Miller is even aware of that particular definition of voluntary, he knew what he was saying, Income Tax is Voluntary.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Another_Nut
ahh taxes my bane.

Well here is my story . im 35 . And working homeless.

I don't pay taxes. and I haven't since I was 20 or so.

So the government took away my electrical license and told me I couldn't work.

So I work "under the table". Live in my van.

And completely ignore the government.

If even 25% of the population put their money where their mouth is ( like i have done) we wouldn't be in half the mess we are.

So follow my advice. Sell everything you can .buy a nice rv or van and live your life free.






And as an Un-licensed electrician, there is no way in Hell I'd ever hire, or even let you work for free, on my home.

I'd be a fool to do so, as would anyone who did.


How am I to know that you have the skills needed to perform work that won't result in the destruction of my home and, possibly the death of my family? Without a license you have no proof.

And the mere fact that you lost your license is a strong indication that you may not be a responsible enough individual to deserve my trust.

In fact, your admonition to "Live Free" serves, in this respect, as little more than a call to irresponsibility.


Why would I entrust my safety, and the safety of my loved ones, to someone like that?



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 12:39 PM
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Theres still a bunch of licensed morons out there that you probably wouldnt want working on your house, but oh wait hes got a license so it must be okay, licensed or not he could still damage your house only difference is un-licensed= fully liable, the way I see it the guy who is fully liable is probably going to do a better job since theres no one to cover his ass.......ya dig?



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by SuperSeeds
 


It is not a matter of "re-definition".

The IRS did NOT "change the definition" of anything.


It is simply how the word is used within a Specific context; in this case, within the context of a legal document, the Internal Revenue Code.

When that particular section of the Code was originally written, the usage of the term "voluntary" was entirely appropriate.

But the vernacular changes, and now we have this (I shall be charitable), confusion.

Though truth be told, I rather suspect that the apparent "confusion" is far more self-serving than many of the supposed "confused" would care to admit!


And bear in mind, it is not even the IRS who wrote the Code (and thus gave rise to this on-going obfuscation, leading to mis-interpetation), it was/is Congress.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by Bhadhidar

Originally posted by Another_Nut
ahh taxes my bane.

Well here is my story . im 35 . And working homeless.

I don't pay taxes. and I haven't since I was 20 or so.

So the government took away my electrical license and told me I couldn't work.

So I work "under the table". Live in my van.

And completely ignore the government.

If even 25% of the population put their money where their mouth is ( like i have done) we wouldn't be in half the mess we are.

So follow my advice. Sell everything you can .buy a nice rv or van and live your life free.






And as an Un-licensed electrician, there is no way in Hell I'd ever hire, or even let you work for free, on my home.

I'd be a fool to do so, as would anyone who did.


How am I to know that you have the skills needed to perform work that won't result in the destruction of my home and, possibly the death of my family? Without a license you have no proof.

And the mere fact that you lost your license is a strong indication that you may not be a responsible enough individual to deserve my trust.

In fact, your admonition to "Live Free" serves, in this respect, as little more than a call to irresponsibility.


Why would I entrust my safety, and the safety of my loved ones, to someone like that?


You are wrong and maybe a little jealous

If you had any clue how trade licensing works you not think that . I have seen idiots nearly burn a house down who were fully licensed.

Licensing is a way for the gov to take a cut of my business and has nothing to do with my skills and knowledge.

The reason im in demand is because im good at what I do. I work by word of mouth so the only reason you would hire me is because you know my skillset

That's how its supposed to work

If im a bad electrician i wont stay in business. Period.

If im a good electrician the work comes to me. Period.

But you go ahead and hire some random out of the phonebook .lol

The fact is i take more responsibility that most . But i won't give my earnings away to a

TRUELY IRRESPONSIBLE GOVERNMENT.

but if you feel the need to continue proppong up this tyranical government and like being a slave that's your choice



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by Bhadhidar
 


Im sorry how are they not re-defining the word by using in a totally different manner(i.e. pay later) than what a normal person would reasonably assume is meant?? Everyone but you seemed to be on the same page as to the meaning of voluntary but youre clearly biased and even if they arent "technically" redefining the word its irrelevant, Steve Miller knew what he was saying.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by SuperSeeds
 


I dig that the guy who is un-liscensed can, and likely will, merely fire up his van and be several states away when I attempt to press him for the damages his "work" caused.

And I dig that, as an unlicensed "contractor" you do not have a state-held bond, or any insurance, to cover my losses.

And I dig, that even if I do succeed in "pinning you down" for damages, your "personal liability" will only extend to your persoal ability to pay, and the value of the assets you can sell, to re-imburse my lossess: In short, I dig that you are are unlikely to have the financial resources to cover the damage you might cause.

And of course, since I was the doofus who knowingly hired an un-licencesed "contractor", I dig that my homeowner's insurance will very likely refuse to honor any claim I might make for the damage.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 01:09 PM
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If it's voluntary compliance then no person would ever be compelled to testify against themselves on tax forms signed under penalties of perjury as required by law.

In fact, signing the jurat on a tax form, e.g. 1040, is a waiver of a persons fifth amendment right against self incrimination in criminal cases. And that is why you don't never sign IRS tax forms when you do not understand the underlying Title 26 or the CFR.

Negating willfulness: If you believe (right or wrong!) that you are not legally required to participate in a system of graft and corruption which is the American tax system operated by the IRS Treasury Mafia, you cannot be held criminally liable for failing to file or submit forms to the IRS and you will not go to jail..

The people (normal people, mind you, everyday people) who have jobs and earn wages can get in really bad trouble with the IRS if they submit (signed, under penalties of perjury) IRS forms which include false information or gross mistakes can subject you to penalties.

In the end, if you got yourself into the tax system, the only person who can get you out is yourself and I do speak from experience. I will not tell you how to do it. Basically, if you can't figure it out (Title 26 and the IRS Code) you should be advised to keep being a slave, keep paying into the system, paying for wars and death and killing and destruction for the military industrial complex.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by Bhadhidar
 


Youre soo reaching. un-licensed= lives in a van. But seriously what you said in regards to insurance is pretty self evident and can easily be an argument for both sides depending on how you twist it but if you ask me insurance is and always was a huge scam, no one can assume liability for YOUR actions, if you kill someone your going to jail not the insurance company and what about when you meet your maker. They prey on peoples fears, its just bad business. Same thing for license always has and always will be a cash grab, I believe the first license issued in Canada was a marriage license for a white man to marry a native woman.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 01:17 PM
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Here is the link that will set you free www.law.cornell.edu...

IRS instruction booklets are not the law. This is how the law defines 'gross income':



edit on 5/19/2013 by SayonaraJupiter because: add pic



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 01:35 PM
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As with the Title 26 definition of 'gross income' any lawyer could obviously see how the statutory definition is flawed.

Let's take a look at how nasty this piece of law really is.

"Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle..." this clearly means to convey that the defined term 'gross income' has other definitions provided elsewhere in the subtitle...

And then it reads,

"gross income means all income from whatever source derived, including (but not limited to) the following items:"

The statute defined the term 'gross income' and provided 15 examples of it.

If a statute is to be understood it must be clearly written and it shall not include all encompassing definitions that are "not limited to" or "otherwise provided". The statute is therefore flawed, in itself, null and void, for lack of clarity.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by Rocker2013
 


Very close. The idea of the US tax being voluntary is more similar to Canada's tax system in that you basically do a "self assessment" and self reporting. In other words, IRS doesn't calculate the tax you already paid or the income that you report--you "volunteer" that information when filling out a tax form and filing it. So, the information you provide is voluntary in the expectation that you'll provide that information with accuracy and good faith. Basically, a person could lie every year about their income and whether or not they would be caught for it would depend on whether they get flagged for an audit and the IRS catches it in the process.

Corporate tax here in the states is surprisingly uncomplicated. The major companies that reduce down their tax bills do so by utilizing foreign tax shelters, foreign tax credits, and tax credits that were created by legislation to "encourage" certain behaviors. An example of the latter would be the Orphan Drug Tax Credit which encourages pharmaceutical companies to create and test drugs for very rare diseases--something that they would not be likely to do due to lack of profitability. In other words, good intentions can be behind the creation of the credits but they can still be abused. From what I recall, most of the cases that go into the US Tax Courts for corporate taxes are revenue recognition related--basically, some company reported revenue improperly and often as a liability. The USTC generally side with the IRS since that's precisely who interprets the tax codes. The major corporations just make sure that they have a fleet of tax lawyers and accountants who are very, very good at tax code interpretation. Tax accountants must be able to interpret IRS tax code and research prior tax court cases to clarify ambiguous areas. That's how it goes down in the states.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by SuperSeeds
 


The IRS did not change the way the word is used, WE changed the way We use the word.

By way of illustration, I'll give you another example:

Militia


If you have at all followed the on-going debate over "gun control" in the U.S., you'll no doubt be familiar with how the "definition" of the term "militia" has given rise to much of that debate.

Same word, but due to evolving vernacular, two dramatically different interpetations of its meaning.


The word has not changed, nor its basic menaing. What has changed is how we used the word, and what we intend when we use it.

With regard to the term "voluntary" in the IRC, as I previously stated, it is only due to a (perhaps willfull) mis-reading of the Code that would lead one to conclude that the payment of taxes is a matter of choice. In the Code, voluntary is used as a distinction, as opposed to cumpulsory, only in that cumpulsory collection would entail the collection of taxes at the time the income upon which the taxes are due is earned.


Just as one might argue that only a member of a "well-organized militia" has the right to keep and bear arms, not every private citizen.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by SayonaraJupiter
 


Most of the IRS tax code is ambiguous and a pain in the arse to comprehend at times. What is defined as gross income is just one of those "pull your hair out" parts. As an accountant trained in both personal, partnership, and corporate tax, I know that a lot of emphasis is made on being able to comprehend the ambiguities in learning these subjects. It actually takes not only looking at the tax code but the interpretations and determinations from the IRS, itself, and the US Tax Court history to illuminate meaning to the laws. I think part of the reason why they make it so stinking ambiguous is because, if it were clearly outlined, it would provide an easy loophole. That's my learned opinion on the subject, lol.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 01:50 PM
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Yea!
My mortage statement says "voluntary payment", but guess what happens a few months after I stop "voluteering"!

Oh yes! The tax forms also say "Federal Income", which could mean if you don't get income from the federal government you don't have to pay taxes.
Has anyone won with that argumrnt in court?
edit on 19-5-2013 by teamcommander because: After thought




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