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I am still waiting for someone to tell me they actually know what a single thing IS in reality. What it IS exactly. Not just some description about it, but what it IS.
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Our claims can easily be verified.
I am still waiting for someone to tell me they actually know what a single thing IS in reality. What it IS exactly. Not just some description about it, but what it IS.
Okay, if you can't do this, what does any object even look like in reality? Every point of view must be accounted for, of course.
Okay, not possible? Then how about proving your claim that you are, without a doubt, the body?
Since your claims are so easily verified, the above should be possible, right? And none of that self-evident business you so readily dismiss when it comes to others (myself included) speaking about consciousness and awareness.
Or does body-based materialism have its limits in terms of knowing even what the humblest thing is or even appears like? And you put all your faith in such a limited mechanism? Hmmm.....
I am not asking you to describe what something is. Just answer the question - do you know what anything actually IS?
No, I don't know what a single thing is. But many people think they do until they fully inspect their assumptions.
By the way, can you dispense with the petty insults - they sound pretty pathetic and do not really encourage a continued dialog.
I said pages ago that we are awareness and this is only self-evident, not provable by any scientific methodology. And, of course, I also noted that such an approach is taken by rationalists when it comes to assuming they are simply the body-mind.
ev·i·dence
noun ˈe-və-dən(t)s, -və-ˌden(t)s
Definition of EVIDENCE
1
a : an outward sign : indication
b : something that furnishes proof : testimony; specifically : something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter
2
: one who bears witness; especially : one who voluntarily confesses a crime and testifies for the prosecution against his accomplices
I have no empirical evidence that we are awareness, and have never spoken about any. However, to bring up questions that make one think about their own so-called empirical evidence is worthwhile, I would think, for any truly inquiring mind to consider.
But you simply do not know what happens to awareness at death if you think it dies with the body-mind. To make claims that billions of examples exist of this, as your evidence, is nonsensical, since no one can know simply by observing the death of the body-mind. How would you know? If so, prove there is no awareness that survives death, if you please.
Now I'm willing to accept your definition of "awareness" to move this discussion forward, but I fear you nor anyone else has a definition to offer. So either call it something else, or offer a definition to the term you are using.
"Awareness" = The state of consciously processing data. That is the only definition I recognize.
That is the brain-mind function of the observer or knower who assumes a point-of-view separate from the data or object.
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
"Awareness" = The state of consciously processing data. That is the only definition I recognize.
Yes, the fact that you only assume awareness is a product or result of the body-mind complex and I, and many others, recognize it is prior to the body-mind complex, is the twain that does not meet.
This is not to say that mind, experience, observing, knowing, etc., is not the product of the body-mind complex - I am only talking about fundamental awareness itself.
Have you even considered that perhaps you are simply identifying awareness with change itself rather than recognizing that awareness is who you actually are in reality? That you simply are the witness of whatever arises and that this one does not age? If, after all this discussion, you cannot even consider that possibility (for whatever reasons you may have), then I do think further discussion of this is pointless.
What good does it do to tell you about a past life?
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
What's it like, being aware before you were born or even conceived?
You are once again assuming that I am saying the body-mind does not have these functions of observing and knowing. It most certainly does have these other functions! See my definition. Regarding awareness, it is self-evident and does not observe itself. How would that work? How could one even as an observer, observe the observer?
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Also, if you are not observing or knowing, how do you know awareness exists? Without observation or knowing, awareness cannot be said to exist.
I posted a definition. And really, this favorite game of yours to emotionally jump to conclusions about anyone who differs from your materialistic views is getting old. You clearly do not understand these matters, and I see no point in continuing this with you when you are mainly emotionally frustrated with this consideration.
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
You have thus far failed to explain your own definition by which to clarify the conditions you are describing. As such, your suggestions are incompatible with the official definition of the word that you are mistakenly applying so haphazardly.
What good does it do to tell you about a past life?
You are once again assuming that I am saying the body-mind does not have these functions of observing and knowing. It most certainly does have these other functions! See my definition. Regarding awareness, it is self-evident and does not observe itself. How would that work? How could one even as an observer, observe the observer?
I posted a definition. And really, this favorite game of yours to emotionally jump to conclusions about anyone who differs from your materialistic views is getting old. You clearly do not understand these matters, and I see no point in continuing this with you when you are mainly emotionally frustrated with this consideration.
Awareness is simply the witness regardless of what arises. It is not separate or abstracted from what arises, as the observer or knower is.
aware
adjective ə-ˈwer
Definition of AWARE
1
archaic : watchful, wary
2
: having or showing realization, perception, or knowledge
Okay, I clearly remember aspects of my past life. I guess you are now convinced!
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
What good does it do you to tell me that awareness exists separately from a material process without having evidence to support your theory? I just gave you the opportunity to prove your claim. Apparently, you'd rather not.
So you can observe the observer. Alright, so can you observe the observer observing the observer? This is ridiculous, but go ahead and tell us how you can.
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Just because you can't doesn't mean I can't.
This is the fundamental difference between the materialistic definition and the self-evident definition of many spiritual practitioners. As I have said innumerable times, the twain ain't gonna meet on this one!
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
We are the tool that is aware.
You really can't help it, can you? You are too frustrated and too disrespectful to too many of us for me to continue with you. Adios.
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
You need to be more specific instead of all this mysticism crap.
It is no coincidence that these forces exist, and in exactly the right proportions for life to eventually form. It is also obvious that some unbound conscious intelligence is responsible.