To Vilify the Ego

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Fear is a necessary response to the rest of the world. Without fear, there's nothing from stopping people from walking off cliffs. Our true nature is not that of the lemming.

Those who repudiate their own fear need to get out more.

edit on 23-5-2013 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)

There is genuine fear - a reaction, a response to what is happening happens. And then there is the securing oneself in the future, fear of what is not actually happening (worrying)- the mind projects future and a play happens in mind with you in it and this is mind made fear, it is felt in the body which is always present.. The idea that you can be destroyed feels threatening so there is always a need to defend and fight.
When the truth is realized there is nothing threatening about the world. What appears is entertainment, it is no longer a competition or puzzle.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by HarryTZ

 

You cannot have a concrete definition because it would have to cover every aspect of every ego that exists.

I said in the OP the ego is the memory or idea one has of himself.

Yes, I guess that would serve well. But it is just that - and idea.

Anyway, did you get my PM?

Fear is never rational.

Fear of pain - What is there to fear, it just hurts.

Fear of being trumped or embarrassed - Either fear embarrassment and experience embarrassment, or just experience embarrassment. I would choose the latter over the former.

Fear of death - Even if one believes that non-existence follows death, what is to fear about non-existence? It's non-existence.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
Fear is never rational.

Fear of death - Even if one believes that non-existence follows death, what is to fear about non-existence? It's non-existence.

Because this life as yourself is all youve ever know, and the only way youve been able to exist as yourself. you may never get the oppurtunity to exist as a human on this earth again... this is why people care a lot about their mind bodies and life. this is why we are afraid of lightning or falling off a cliff or petting that growling wild lion. The most value things to ourselves should be our existence. If you believe your body and mind do not matter, are not yours, or you, then its as if you seek death and hate life and existing as yourself.

reply to post by ImaFungi


That still doesn't justify fear.

And I am obviously not dead, but very much alive, so you seem to be misunderstanding what I'm saying. However, instead of repeating it yet again with the hope that somehow you will understand where others could not, I will ask you to give me the benefit of the doubt, just as LesMis has done.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by HarryTZ

 

You cannot have a concrete definition because it would have to cover every aspect of every ego that exists.

I said in the OP the ego is the memory or idea one has of himself.

Are you an idea or memory? Or are you that which ideas and memories arise within?

Originally posted by olaru12

Originally posted by Manula


Ego? What ego, no one knows what ego realy is, we are alive and we have individuality, lets live it and celebrate it, while evolving it.

No ego? Watch a 2 year old. Primitive ego in all it's glory!!


www.sonoma.edu...www.cubancigarsbest.com...

edit on 18-5-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

Thanks for share this url sosoma is a interesting website

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
Awareness can be observed to be affected by alcohol, sleep, narcotics, brain injury—by simple and dumb physical properties—and are witnessed to cease at death every single time, there are billions and billions of examples of this.
...
Will you address these?

I have already addressed those. The body-mind is affected by all such matters. And I too will repeat myself. One's fundamental awareness is not affected by anything conditional, but this is usually not noticed because awareness for most people is identified with the changes of the body-mind. You are a good example of this - you have told us here before that there is no awareness apart from the processes that are occurring in the human organism, right? (Forgive me if my paraphrasing is not 100% accurate, but I believe this is in accordance with your prior posts.)

Such a presumption that awareness dies at death is never actually witnessed. Who can possibly witness this here? Sure the body-mind complex ceases to function and one's awareness of external conditions through the senses ceases. And if this is all you associate awareness with, then I can see why you make such a claim.

But you simply do not know what happens to awareness at death if you think it dies with the body-mind. To make claims that billions of examples exist of this, as your evidence, is nonsensical, since no one can know simply by observing the death of the body-mind. How would you know? If so, prove there is no awareness that survives death, if you please.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

That still doesn't justify fear.

And I am obviously not dead, but very much alive, so you seem to be misunderstanding what I'm saying. However, instead of repeating it yet again with the hope that somehow you will understand where others could not, I will ask you to give me the benefit of the doubt, just as LesMis has done.

Are you afraid of being near a crazy man with a gun? Would you be afraid of jumping out of a plane without a parachute? Would you be afraid if both your legs fell off while you were in the middle of the jungle?

I understand what your saying, there is no need to live in a harmful fear of abstract and real things and scenarios. but at the same time, things like a fear of failure, or fear of starving, or fear of falling off a cliff; will propel one to be observant and make sure those things dont happen. If I have a fear of lightning, when there is a gnarly thunderstorm this will cause me to stay inside, if someone does not have a fear of lightning, and desirees to go out singing in the rain, and get struck by lightning, that immense pain and suffering and potential end of life that they will experience, is the potential that i am fearful of. their lack of fear ended their life or severely ruined it, my fear allowed me to continue my existence comfortably.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
Every so-called 'ego' is unique and different from all the rest. Each person has his or her own desires, thoughts, judgements and biases that equate to the totality of the ego. You cannot have a concrete definition because it would have to cover every aspect of every ego that exists.

With this logic you are saying you cannot use the label "body-mind" to refer to our body-minds!

All I am saying is that the concept of ego-I is best looked at as the body-mind because that is how we refer to one another - in reference to one's body-mind. We do not refer to Harry as his desires or his thoughts, etc. We refer to Harry as that particular body-mind.

This is a social convention based on language and the need to communicate, and tends also to reinforce the myth that we are actually the body-mind rather than awareness itself. But the body-minds are what we need to keep track of and refer to! Thus ego-I = body-mind.

Originally posted by bb23108

All I am saying is that the concept of ego-I is best looked at as the body-mind because that is how we refer to one another - in reference to one's body-mind. We do not refer to Harry as his desires or his thoughts, etc. We refer to Harry as that particular body-mind.

This is a social convention based on language and the need to communicate, and tends also to reinforce the myth that we are actually the body-mind rather than awareness itself. But the body-minds are what we need to keep track of and refer to! Thus ego-I = body-mind.

I agree with what you are saying and I guess it's okay to use a blanket term such as 'ego' and 'body-mind'. We just have to live with the fact that such phrases are very general and could lead to some viewing the construct as an existential thing rather than an abstract idea.

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Are you afraid of being near a crazy man with a gun? Would you be afraid of jumping out of a plane without a parachute? Would you be afraid if both your legs fell off while you were in the middle of the jungle?

What I am afraid of is not relevant.

I understand what your saying, there is no need to live in a harmful fear of abstract and real things and scenarios. but at the same time, things like a fear of failure, or fear of starving, or fear of falling off a cliff; will propel one to be observant and make sure those things dont happen. If I have a fear of lightning, when there is a gnarly thunderstorm this will cause me to stay inside, if someone does not have a fear of lightning, and desirees to go out singing in the rain, and get struck by lightning, that immense pain and suffering and potential end of life that they will experience, is the potential that i am fearful of. their lack of fear ended their life or severely ruined it, my fear allowed me to continue my existence comfortably.

My point still stands.

reply to post by HarryTZ

You can't very much have a concrete definition of ego; it is a very abstract term that, in fact, covers everything that makes us feel separate from everything else. Your definition even states that.

Because we are separate. If I punch a tree without your knowledge, you can't even pretend to feel it. If I throw a rock into a stream of lava without your knowledge, you can't even pretend to be aware of it. Your awareness extends exactly as far as your physical senses do. And your ego is a survival mechanism intended to optimize the function of your physical existence. Plain and simple.

15 and counting...

reply to post by ImaFungi

Originally posted by ImaFungi
Are you afraid of being near a crazy man with a gun? Would you be afraid of jumping out of a plane without a parachute? Would you be afraid if both your legs fell off while you were in the middle of the jungle?

I understand what your saying, there is no need to live in a harmful fear of abstract and real things and scenarios. but at the same time, things like a fear of failure, or fear of starving, or fear of falling off a cliff; will propel one to be observant and make sure those things dont happen. If I have a fear of lightning, when there is a gnarly thunderstorm this will cause me to stay inside, if someone does not have a fear of lightning, and desirees to go out singing in the rain, and get struck by lightning, that immense pain and suffering and potential end of life that they will experience, is the potential that i am fearful of. their lack of fear ended their life or severely ruined it, my fear allowed me to continue my existence comfortably.

The body-mind is rightfully afraid of any number of dangerous situations. That is built in to the mechanism for survival purposes.

However, awareness itself is not afraid as it never changes, never ages, and never dies. The body-mind can and does die, and the separative gesture of identifying with the body-mind and all of its changes, is based on fear - the fear of not being some separate somebody!

reply to post by bb23108


Yes, but this requires one to realize that consciousness is not a brain function, which it seems many here have not.

reply to post by HarryTZ

Yes, but this requires one to believe that consciousness is not a brain function, which it seems many here do not.

Have you ever talked to someone who doesn't have a brain? I mean literally, not figuratively. Have you ever encountered a consciousness that you could prove exists outside of your imagination that does not require a brain?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


No.

But the belief that observable phenomena can give rise to observed phenomena is still beyond silly. Especially after it has been proven (if not in this thread than another) that all physical particles are, quite literally, made of nothing.

reply to post by HarryTZ

No.

But the belief that observable phenomena can give rise to observed phenomena is still beyond silly. Especially after it has been proven (if not in this thread than another) that all physical particles are, quite literally, made of nothing.

I don't see how that validates your claims. Where are your sources? Your peer reviewed research articles? Your evidence? All you have is a bunch of irrational claims by an ignorant yogi who sat around doing nothing and suddenly claims to know everything about this reality. No. No, he doesn't. And neither do you.

Our claims can easily be verified. Your claims are faith-based. Oh, it just is. Here, let me prove it to you by training you in the exercise of running around futilely trying to find an answer that is no answer but could be an answer if you just don't think about the question...because the question is, after all, not a question but a fact of reality. Which reality? There is no reality. Just like you don't really exist. Not to you, anyway.

No wonder this thread has become so futile. You've inundated it with inane concepts that have no grounding in any reality we're familiar with. And it all comes back to ego. If you didn't have any ego, we wouldn't be having this discussion because you would have no opinions of your own. You would have no perspective at all. It would all flow through you like wind through a tunnel. You must have ego to have any kind of perspective or opinion, or to hold any kind of preference at all.

Welcome to ego. Either you must abandon your participation in life, or admit that my case is sound. Make a move in either direction, and you betray every attempt you've ever made to vilify the ego. But that's okay. Mistakes are a thing of the ego as well. They teach us how to master it.