All paths lead to Father?

reply to post by kijne


Of course its my personal opinion, just like you believing Christianity is the truth is yours. I don't claim to know everything, but I do claim to have common sense and the wherewithal to notice that the world around us is full of nothing but lies and deceit.

If you think the biggest religion in a world full of lies is truth, then you don't have common sense in my "personal opinion".

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by Aleister

 

John 10:33 is one verse that contradicts you:

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

Jesus did say He was God. "I and my Father are one" isn't some deep metaphysical statement. Though the angels and prophets rebuked those that worshiped them, Jesus welcomed it.

Jesus also said:

John 14
28 "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

How could he go to himself and how is he greater than himself?

reply to post by jhill76


The Olivet Discourse is found in no other text besides the New Testament, yet it is so important to mankind, that Jesus specifically tells all who will listen to it with open ears, that it is "the" Gospel that will be preached into the entire world before the end will come. Common sense dictates that it "is" also the Everlasting Gospel that is mentioned in the Revelation Of Jesus Christ.

You may think there is another way, but there isn't any other way. We've done our job here. We've repeated his words ad nauseum . Authority, glory and sovereign power was given to him. You may not want to hear it but all people of every nation and language will worship him. His dominion is EVERLASTING and his kingdom will never be destroyed.

He is is the way and NO ONE comes to Father except through him. He never stops trying to get your attention by spiritual means and until you figure it out - you remain asleep.

You remain unenlightened.

" And the Father of All,
said out to his infinite servants,

'I am now creating my children.
And as you served me.
You will serve them'"

This made quite a few things angry.

reply to post by jhill76


I think if there is a God, he/she merely wants us to be love each other, and to live life in way that makes him proud. To help each other navigate the hard parts of life with love and understanding and to give each other hope when we need it most. I hardly think he would want us to have wars in his name and destroy each other. That makes no sense to me and I refuse to believe in a God who would want that.

My opinion might seem too simple or juvenile for some but, it's what I believe. I think we over think religion too often and that's where problems start to appear.

Originally posted by U4ea82
reply to post by jhill76

 

I think if there is a God, he/she merely wants us to be love each other, and to live life in way that makes him proud. To help each other navigate the hard parts of life with love and understanding and to give each other hope when we need it most. I hardly think he would want us to have wars in his name and destroy each other. That makes no sense to me and I refuse to believe in a God who would want that.

My opinion might seem too simple or juvenile for some but, it's what I believe. I think we over think religion too often and that's where problems start to appear.

edit on 19-5-2013 by U4ea82 because: Afterthought

The reason the point of religion is often overlooked is because of simplicity.
And I do agree with your view on wanting to treat each other the way we ourselves would want to be treated.
But it just will coincide with free will and choice.
Those were "gifts" given to us.
If properly executed, and honor them
you have no idea what the outcome would be

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by Aleister

 

John 10:33 is one verse that contradicts you:

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

Jesus did say He was God. "I and my Father are one" isn't some deep metaphysical statement. Though the angels and prophets rebuked those that worshiped them, Jesus welcomed it.

Jesus also said:

John 14
28 "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

How could he go to himself and how is he greater than himself?

edit on 18-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Jesus is speaking to his disciples as a man. They did not understand that Jesus and the Father was one.

If you read a little before that in verse 7-9 it says...

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?


The disciples did not understand at that time who Jesus actually was. They still thought of him as a prophet. That is why Jesus told them his Father was greater than him.

Urantia:

(21.3) 1:0.3 The enlightened worlds all recognize and worship the Universal Father, the eternal maker and infinite upholder of all creation. The will creatures of universe upon universe have embarked upon the long, long Paradise journey, the fascinating struggle of the eternal adventure of attaining God the Father. The transcendent goal of the children of time is to find the eternal God, to comprehend the divine nature, to recognize the Universal Father. God-knowing creatures have only one supreme ambition, just one consuming desire, and that is to become, as they are in their spheres, like him as he is in his Paradise perfection of personality and in his universal sphere of righteous supremacy. From the Universal Father who inhabits eternity there has gone forth the supreme mandate, “Be you perfect, even as I am perfect.” In love and mercy the messengers of Paradise have carried this divine exhortation down through the ages and out through the universes, even to such lowly animal-origin creatures as the human races of Urantia.


(1222.2) 111:6.3 The problem of sin is not self-existent in the finite world. The fact of finiteness is not evil or sinful. The finite world was made by an infinite Creator — it is the handiwork of his divine Sons — and therefore it must be good. It is the misuse, distortion, and perversion of the finite that gives origin to evil and sin.


JESUS of Nazareth:
(1907.2) 175:1.10 “While you should honor your rulers and reverence your teachers, you should call no man Father in the spiritual sense, for there is one who is your Father, even God. Neither should you seek to lord it over your brethren in the kingdom. Remember, I have taught you that he who would be greatest among you should become the server of all. If you presume to exalt yourselves before God, you will certainly be humbled; but whoso truly humbles himself will surely be exalted. Seek in your daily lives, not selfglorification, but the glory of God. Intelligently subordinate your own wills to the will of the Father in heaven.

Originally posted by jhill76
I have seen a quote posted:
Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu...all paths lead to God.

It seems as this would be correct.  As what all these have in common, is teaching self to be better. 

If religion teaches said person to be better, would that be what Father would want ultimately?  As long as you lived life in a good way, no matter how you did it, religion or not.  

But, it seems religion wants to claim sole rights on God.  (Jesus is the only way, Allah is the true God, etc.)

Would God really punish a person for being good throughout life?

In other words, your OP could be rephrased as: "Is there salvation through all paths?" From scripture, the answer is no and the reason for that is simple; your Creator made a new creation and that new creation is IN CHRIST,  through faith of Jesus Christ. So if the new creation is IN CHRIST, how do you suppose Buddha or Mohammed (for examples) have any relevance to His new creation, which is IN CHRIST?

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:The old has gone, the new is here! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 
2 Corinthians 5:17-21

In a world whereby good and evil can be defined by anybody, your question "Would God really punish a person for being good throughout life" should be seen for what it is, namely subjective. You clearly know that good is defined by society, and that this good can produce horrible consequences for others. Not more than 50 years ago most in our society knew abortion to be murder. Today, many of our society view abortion as a good. So in reality, your last question is entirely the wrong question to be asked, isn't it? In fact, it's a question loaded with defiance from man's point of view and a question which can never bring you to truth because it's not based on anything other than man's very own definitions of good which he tends to defend at all costs. 

"All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ....."

Man's religions have gotten us nowhere because they are fig leaves that men have fashioned for themselves due to feeling shame. They are man's attempts at pleasing and appeasing a Creator whilst hiding from Him, and many also codify what people enjoy doing I.e. sex cults, phallus worship, Wicca etc. Each of us are drawn to different religions based upon our own preferences and desires, so religions which allow all sorts of behaviours are attractive to those who love those behaviours. This exists with the Christian churches as well as all others, and whilst these divisions exist, there will never be unity. There can never be unity when there is not one Spirit reconciling humanity to God. That one Spirit was named and preached world wide - reconciliation to God THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. "I am THE way, THE truth and THE life".

Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu...all paths lead to God

Clearly they don't because there is division and sets of rules and regulations that keep its own members locked in oppression. Unfortunately, there is fast growing movement sweeping this planet which IS bringing them into unity, and unfortunately, it is a spirit of iniquity which proclaims "I am God" reached through mind altering meditation, "going within". Instead of producing a unity going through Jesus Christ, it is producing a unity which says "I am Christ"....."I am creator"...."I am a little god"....hardly reconciliation with the Creator of all things.

Perhaps your ending question should be pondering "Was a new creation created that I am rejecting?"

reply to post by jhill76

Originally posted by U4ea82
reply to post by jhill76

 

I think if there is a God, he/she merely wants us to be love each other, and to live life in way that makes him proud. To help each other navigate the hard parts of life with love and understanding and to give each other hope when we need it most. I hardly think he would want us to have wars in his name and destroy each other. That makes no sense to me and I refuse to believe in a God who would want that.

My opinion might seem too simple or juvenile for some but, it's what I believe. I think we over think religion too often and that's where problems start to appear.

edit on 19-5-2013 by U4ea82 because: Afterthought

this is monotheism and the soul of monotheistic religions. from Adam to Noah, from Abraham to Moses, Jesus and Mohammad. in this sense, there has been only one religion in the universe, that is nothing but submission to The One God, which is the source of all goodnesses.

reply to post by jhill76


The pondering of questions about "God", can be a never ending thing.

Who or what is God? Is there such a thing? Who is right? Anyone?

There are MANY text's that claim the sole rights to who or what God is and how to obtain a place where he exists.

The entire world has had and will forever have different view points on the who, where, and why in regards to "God".

I can't say that I know anyone's truth, except from my own point of view which will no doubt be a different view point as where I stand and look is completely different from my brother and sister. For me, that's ok. Other's are eagerly arrogant to say their way is the only way and their interpretation of texts is the only way to interpret. That.... I do have issues with, however I also try to be understanding of such.

With saying that, there is an understanding within my view point that I MUST be cooperative and understanding when it comes to another set of eyes as their truth is not my own but when combined I do understand that we can be at peace with our own understanding and knowledge of this life and the after life, if the observer so chooses to acknowledge an after life as I do.

I would like to think that "God" is the creator of all there is and exists within his creation of the "all there is".

I lean toward the understanding of all religions and science and combine them all for a personal theory and by doing that I also realize others before me and after me will come up with their own view point and or theory.

Each person in a "religion" will not see eye to eye on everything and so two people from different religions will also not see eye to eye on everything. Why? It's personal to each person's view point and what they see and don't see is probably because of their own personal journey here on Earth. Maybe each one of us creates God and keeps this energy abundantly alive and thriving in all walks of life and view points. One believes he is the butterfly that just whizzed by them and so it is. One may believe God is an Eagle, and so it is so. Maybe God is not only the creator but also is the creation ongoing in man's thoughts and ideas about him. I'm just pondering aloud.

Because I am also a lover of science and feel as though I can see "God" in all there is I want to leave this lecture for someone who also holds interest in the science of God. If you love listening to lecures as I do and if you love the science of God explained in the different view points as another see's it/Him/Her, then you will love this lecture..... as I do.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

The "lake of eternal fire" Hell concept is archaic and pretty much, by various factors (Jewish understanding of Hell, hermeneutics, simple logic) is unbiblical. However, there is, by these same factors, a "second death."

Let me correct you.... you mean according to "revelation" there is a second death... Which is a book written by a very old man in a cave... who was likely suffering from some form of dementia

what about a third death... and a forth?

Don't you know "You must be born again?"

But the fact remains that modern Christianity wants to present you with a one-sided image of God, that His glory is manifest in love only. No, God's glory is manifest in His love AND wrath.

I honestly don't give a flying... (well you know)... about what Christianity wants or teaches... They believe the OT God is the Father of Jesus... while conveniently overlooking the atrocities this so called God has done and told his followers to do... calling it "justice"... what a joke

What you're suggesting is that God, who gives you every chance in the world to come to Him through His Son, Jesus, is supposed to gve you a free pass in the end for living a worldly, pagan life and rejecting salvation? Now how does THAT make sense?

Not in the way you described it... but since we're going to walk this path... How many of the OT prophets are in hell right now because of the crazy sick things they did in their life?

Is Moses in "hell"?

How about Jacob?

Does a soldier go to hell for listening to his leaders and killing hundreds of people?

Regardless of what a person has done in this life they don't burn in hell... that is a fantasy designed to scare people and keep the populous docile... In this age its used as a conversion method... and its been a lie from the beginning. We are reborn into the life we deserve...

Would you want a judge who only finds people innocent? Of course not, there's jo justice in that.

Its called cause and effect... You cause what you will be born into by the actions or lack there of in this incarnation... Hell is a myth.... nothing more, nothing less

reply to post by EnochWasRight

If God is love, then his family must be protected. This is where hell fits into the picture. In Romans 1, his wrath is not against those who sin, but against those who suppress the truth. Paul told us this.

Who cares what Paul told his people... I do not

Also, apart from Paul, we would not realize that Jesus was teaching the same topic as the OT. Man cannot please God with sacrifice.

I disagree... man can not please God with sacrificing the innocent... Animal sacrifice is and always has been a pathetic disgusting practice... AS IF one can kill an animal for the remission of sins... ONLY a blood thirsty God such as the one you'll find in the OT would be pleased with such horrid practices.

WE on the other hand are not innocent... Self sacrifice would please a loving God

Mercy and Grace is necessary.

Grace if is a fabrication of Paul...

There can be no boasting with God. If man can enter heaven and say, "Look at what I did," there was no need for the Son of God to propitiate on our behalf. Living life should show you quick enough that you cannot do it on your own.

Why would any man do such a thing if he/she believes in God... wouldn't God already know what you might have done... or didn't do for that matter?

Read the sermon on the mount. Have you sold everything and given to the poor? Then you are selfish and are marked with that mark, just like all of us.

perhaps... Though I would say there was a purpose for such drastic measures when Jesus was alive... Likely so people could focus on what he said and spread the message... Yet I still find it amazing that out of all of these followers he had, only three of them wrote anything down...

As a necessity, there must be a scapegoat provided for the Son, just as God provided one for Abraham. The Son remained safe. Satan was that scapegoat and those who willing suppress the truth with him.

I don't believe such an entity exists.... Satan is a religious mans scape goat... You'll never find an atheist claiming satan did it...

I don't think that is you, but I would not be willing to deny any part of the message in favor of my own understanding.

You are not me my dear friend... I am willing to deny what feels wrong about "the message"... And im not afraid to do so because as Jesus states specifically...

I will be forgiven if I forgive... and I always forgive... without exception

IF im wrong... so be it... but I don't believe I am... and no one has been able to convince me otherwise...

It all stands as unified, including Paul's message that Grace and Mercy is the gospel. If not, we are all condemned.

Nope... Grace is not anything Jesus taught... that was strictly pauls fabrication...

Mercy and forgiveness is the gospel... both of which stem from Love, which all the law and the prophets hang on...

Its just a shame most of the so called prophets had no clue what love is

Originally posted by Mads1987
reply to post by Akragon

 

It means what it means. Don't think it needs that much of an interpretation. Be good to others.
But there is also an element of equality in it. That one man is worth just as much as the next, and should be treaded the same.

I hope you have got a point, cause I don't see what it has to do with anything?

Read your previous statement...

That is just to wage for me. You could try forever, but you would never find two people who would always 'hear' the same thing, even if they both truly listened.

I'll give you a while to figure it out...

reply to post by Akragon


Was John a false teacher as well?

John 1:17

For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Compare to what Paul outlines of Moses, then bounce this off of Baptism with Elijah in 1 Kings 17 and John the Baptist in Matthew: Hidden Mystery of Moses There is no contradiction to grace and mercy when the knowledge of our next robe woven from our own sin is realized. Blood is applied and not earned. What we do not master continues to master us until we give it over to the only one who can/did. The struggle ends when we give it over, not when we overcome ourselves. Grace comes from its definition: charis (khar'ece, Strong #5485) - graciousness,...of manner or act. Our host is gracious to us, despite our own manners. We continue to be hosted. This is the point. We are the ones served by God. We cannot serve Him.

Acts 17

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

In the Hebrew tradition, adoption comes at the point the child becomes a man.

1 Corinthians 13

11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

A change of heart brings a change of action. What blood is required for this to flow in many veins? One blood, but many veins. One slice of the same loaf. Participation in the cup and bread here means becoming what we eat.

1 Corinthians 10 (Difference between the idol of self (Drop of Dew) and returning to the unity of the Ocean)

14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. 15 I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

Again, Paul is the key to know why Grace is not earned, but a gift.

Originally posted by jhill76


If religion teaches said person to be better, would that be what Father would want ultimately? As long as you lived life in a good way, no matter how you did it, religion or not.

FATHER... YES as it preserves...

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Was John a false teacher as well?

John 1:17

For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

No... John used the word in the correct context... Paul changed the entire meaning of it...

John simply meant the ease in which he did things... a quiet confident person, not needing to prove anything to anyone... The Grace John meant was in the way he answered peoples questions... Brilliantly I might add...

Grace is defined as an ease of motions and words... Not the power of God... that is pauls fabrication...

Again, Paul is the key to know why Grace is not earned, but a gift.

And yet Jesus never mentioned it in any of the books where his life is documented...

Paul is the key to deceit... Paul is the reason why Jesus is worshipped as God... By saying Jesus thought it wasn't robbery to be equal with God...

That is a blatant lie... and evidence that Paul knew nothing of Jesus...

A song from a lover. Everybody who have a harmonious personal relationship with the divine will love it since it is in it nature to give and receive love. .

Originally posted by jhill76
It seems as this would be correct. As what all these have in common, is teaching self to be better.

If religion teaches said person to be better, would that be what Father would want ultimately? As long as you lived life in a good way, no matter how you did it, religion or not.

One thing that the Abrahamic faiths all have in common is that they don't care if you are good or evil so long as you worship their particular god. That is what is so strange about those religions. Often, they do not churn out morally-correct or loving people; just scared ones.

Most of the rest of those faiths are based on a meritocracy where your fate is either determined by your actions or your heart. This is why I find it strange that Christianity has been so absorbed into the conservative demographics who would normally scoff at the idea of a reward for no work other than pledging your allegiance. Most would call that "socialism".

No. First, just focusing on the Christianity aspect, in that religion there are two fathers, each father having sons. There are sons of God, and liars, children of the father of lies. So the generic father term isn't sufficient. Perhaps one day you're going to get a person with a sweet sounding voice but the father he's talking about is the lying one.

I would say more that what all the religions have in common is the pursuit of wisdom and upright living for the people of lands. They seek to harmonize, and a consequence of harmonization is that they try to take over everything in movements over souls, regardless of the individuals. Through those regional powers, there is evidence of gods over kinds of people.

From a monotheist perspective, however, the one God, which may be addressed as Father, is going to be expressed as God wants through an individual. Then there is the free will of an individual to look back on his life and decide to do things same or differently under certain conditions. If all paths led to the Father, then it wouldn't matter, but then how does one describe the Bible's rich man in hell thirsty for water if all paths led to the Father? What is the necessity for Jesus to live a life removing evil if all paths led to the Father? So from Christianity's perspective alone, it's not true that all paths lead to the Father.