All paths lead to Father?

reply to post by qualm91

To say that one is good, leads a good life, and that should be enough for God is not only prideful, but inadiquate. It is the fact we are all sinners. We all committed offenses against God. If someone says they are good, can they claim to have never lied, stolen, lusted in their hearts, and soforth? Can they stand in the presense before an infinate holy and just God, and say they are justified? No they cannot. Sin is an offense against God, and it has infinate consequinces.

So, one is probibly asking, is it fair for a bad person to go to heaven who accepted Jesus as savior, and a good person who lived a good life who rejected Jesus to go to hell? Short answer is YES. What is fair for God may not sound fair to humans. The issue still is sin. Now a good person may not have sinned as much as the bad person in thier life, but they still sinned. The bad person was justified and sanctified by the blood of Jesus. It is a regenerative process. The issue is not the amount of sin, but sin itself. The outstanding offense to God. The good person did not have the blood of Jesus wipe away their sin, it is their choice to seperate themselves from God which damned them. That is a hard pill for many to swallow, but it is what it is.

Like I said, it is not the amount of sin, but the fact that we ALL sin against God. No sinner can stand before God and say, "I am good enough." because we're not. I want to say to all of you. You don't need religion to have a relationship with Jesus. You do need to accept his sacrifice on your behalf and follow him as your lord. Through this process, you are immediately justified in God's eyes if you recognize that you are a sinner and reject the will to sin. Then, once you accepted him, sanctification will happen. You will be a new creation, God will work with you in your heart to want to do His will. You will want to have a relationship with Him. The Holy Ghost will reside in your heart.

Personal disclosure:
Fellowship is important, as well as study. Don't let people get between you and God. Don't let the hypocrites push you away from God. In fact, it is the hypocrites who need God more than any of us. Don't let religious dogma keep you from the Word of God, as the nature, mind, truth, and love of God is within it. Get a KJV bible and concordance. I know weird, but trust me on this, the other translations are not very accurate and have removed hundreds of verses from the bible. Most importantly, don't let pride and a hard heart keep you from a relationship with our creator. You will find the love you've been looking for all your lives. He's reaching out for you, accept the free gift. God bless.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by maes2

 

Islam and Judaism do not all have one God. The current God of Judaism didn't send His Son to die for our sins. Allah explicity says that he has no partner, no son, that Jesus is only a prophet, and that Christians will be punished for worshiping Him as God.

NO, NO. there is only one God in this world. Yahweh is the other name of Allah and Allah has Aramaic roots. Aramaic was the language of Jesus who would call God as Elaho or something like this.
There is only one God in this world but different views.
Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Christians do not believe that Mohammad was the Paraclete.
some Christians call Jesus as son of God. but muslims call him son of Mary.
all of these can not be sign of different Gods. this is the different views towards different paths.
the biggest common point is the monotheism. just one God is described in Torah, Bible and Quran. the common descriptions are far more than differences.
oh and another common point is the upcoming arrival of Messiah. the Messiah of humanity which monotheistic religions are awaiting it with different views.
What if all monotheistic religions are awaiting of one occurrence !!!!!
When monotheism is in danger, and corruption is exposed, and radicalism is spreading, then what is the importance that people are jews or christians or ....

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by Aleister

 

No. Your theory would make sense if what happened at the Herodian Temple would be the turning point for the Pharisees. But Jesus did more than just throw tables over, He called the Pharisees out as hypocrites and desecrators. His claims and miracles were what threw up red flags, what happened at the Temple was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Right, exactly, the straw that broke the camel's back. Because it got the people on board who were hesitating. Jesus had gotten violent, and he wasn't just teaching anymore he had gone all in on a revolution. If they hadn't grabbed him that week he would have been back at the temple on Saturday (the day after he died) knocking over the tables again, and maybe this time he'd have some of his crew helping him. So he stopped talking in words and talked in action, which was enough for the religious and money elite at the time to say "that's enough". I assume the Saturday money market at the temple went off without a hitch the day after the lawful-murder of Jesus.

The principle of 'exclusionism' does not come from a proper reading of cosmological treatise.
The contradiction in mainstream theology cannot be overstated.
It cannot be massaged by men/women to fit a neat christian box, neat muslim box, neat whatever box...

All paths lead back to Source...there is no final timeframe, 'end-of-times' horror movie scenarios are a complete misunderstanding (usually based on the propensity to attribute treatises as COMPLETE & UNADULTERATED words of God)...unfortunate, given the rich expanse of clues across ALL 'communicated' information...

I am the alpha and the omega...this is an immensely powerful statement to ponder...

Å99

reply to post by Akragon


It means what it means. Don't think it needs that much of an interpretation. Be good to others.
But there is also an element of equality in it. That one man is worth just as much as the next, and should be treaded the same.

I hope you have got a point, cause I don't see what it has to do with anything?

reply to post by qualm91

Originally posted by qualm91
This question is what has distanced me from fundamental religions.

NEVER forget this fact: God and religion are total opposites.

Religion is a man made invention.

Religion LIES, HATES, & KILLS...

God creates, loves, & only speaks truth.

God and Religion are diametrically opposed.

Religion is a LIE masquerading as the truth.

THIS is how we KNOW that God is not the author of Religion.

Originally posted by qualm91
I don't believe that it is a "One Almighty God". Would my belief of this, in and of itself, make me go to Hell even though I am a good person?

I highly recommend seeing this film, it will answer MANY questions:

But surely know one would choose that if they knew you existed.

Nobody goes into hell blindfolded, in one way or another Iv'e revealed myself to everyone.

The Encounter

reply to post by Murgatroid


Are you now basing your faith in God on a bad movie?

Please.

Originally posted by Theflyingweldsman
Are you now basing your faith in God on a bad movie?

Please.

Awful STRANGE words coming from someone who recently said this:

Originally posted by Theflyingweldsman
Jesus taught us NOT to judge others.

Not even ourselves.

If we live as he taught, we have no need to.

Watch out for that exploding hypocrisy meter...

reply to post by Murgatroid


I'm not judging you, my friend.

Just questioning the basis of your faith. I think that's ok.

Jesus taught us to call out bad taste wherever we find it.

The Kingdom of God is within You, not in the cinema, or in this case, the (straight to) DVD.

It may be easier to watch a movie, but it will, by it's nature,

never be more than entertainment or propaganda or both.

You already have the answers, but you don't know the questions yet.

Jesus had some great advice for us. If we try and follow that, ignore what Paul wrote

and listen to our consciences, we should be doing ok.

Peace and love to you.

Tfw

What Christianity truly teaches is that all people are sinners, or do things that are "bad." This is actually self-evident even from a non-religious point of view. With that said, Christianity teaches that even though a person is living badly, they are already forgiven for these actions. But, they must ask for forgiveness for it to be granted. Christianity is a continuation of Judaism, and in Judaism all sins must be atoned for via a sacrifice in the Temple. This seems strange to us now, but this method worked for the ancient people. Maybe God knew that people would change over time, but whatever the reason, Christianity teaches that God put an end to the need for atonement through sacrifice by basically incarnating himself in the physical form and coming to earth.

Once here, he led a sinless life, truly perfect. And thus he was pure enough to die for the sins of all mankind. So basically He was the ultimate sacrifice, which put an end to the need for sacrifice. Christianity also teaches that those who have accepted Jesus Christ as the true God are the only ones who will approach the judgement seat, with the book, where all past actions are revealed. The Bible states that a person's works will basically be put into a fire, and they will either remain or be destroyed. The terminology of the Bible is what turns many people away, I have found, but people need to understand that this terminology and imagery was what worked at the time. It does not mean that is how God thinks, or whatever. It was just the style of time, and was written for those who would read these books at the time.

Anyway, say someone who has not accepted Christ, God, at the time of their death...What will happen to them? Will they go to hell? The answer is not necessarily. The Bible CLEARLY states that there are different types of people. There are those who have never heard the word of God. Those people definitely will be given the opportunity upon death to accept God and go to Heaven. The Bible also states that it will be worse for those who heard the word of God, but who did not listen or accept it. But that does not mean they will not get into Heaven.

Something I have debated with highly religious people about is the nature of Heaven itself. The Bible very clearly implies that different people will receive different rewards in Heaven. This could imply there are multiple "levels" to Heaven, like some new agers say, but it does not necessarily mean that. Christians argue sometimes about whether going to Heaven depends on faith and accepting Christ as Lord, or on works done on earth. The answer is that both are important. Accepting Jesus as Lord will actually get a person into Heaven, even if their actions on earth were not that great. But Paul clearly states in the New Testament that those who both accept Christ and do great works on earth are to receive much more in Heaven. But it does not state what that actually means. I surely do not know.

Some people want to say it would be cruel for God to punish someone who did good works but who did not believe, and this is not the case. All God asks for in return for eternal salvation is to believe. If you do that, all your sins are forgiven, and you will definitely go to Heaven. But without belief, what is the point? Why would God let non-believers into His kingdom? He has already shown massive compassion and care by giving people their whole lives to accept Him, at any time, even on their deathbed. Is that too much to ask for the reward that will be received? I don't think so at all.

But there is also another point of view. It states that all people, after death, will get a chance to accept Christ/God as their savior, and thus enter Heaven, even if these people had rejected Christ during their lifetimes. I don't know if this is the case, and I would say that the Bible mainly states the opposite, but there could be something I have overlooked, which I am apt to do at times. But I personally would not count on that being the case, and thus rejecting God simply because I am hoping for a chance after death to accept Him if I was wrong. So FAITH truly is what saves a person or not, while works are completely secondary to whether a person gets saved. But here is the kicker...Faith does not mean just believing. Faith means believing enough to want to live as Jesus did. Therefore TRUE FAITH spawns good works.

Nope. All of religion is a lie, they use our fear of death to scare people into believing their lies.

If by "paths" you really meant "lives" then yes, all paths (lives) lead to god. In fact we are walking alongside god at this moment by existing, though others have come in and spoiled the fun for everyone else and convinced them that lies are truth.

Everyone sees the light, but most do not realize it.

reply to post by Murgatroid


Yet you believe every word that a certain religion (Christianity) spews.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Nope. All of religion is a lie, they use our fear of death to scare people into believing their lies.

If by "paths" you really meant "lives" then yes, all paths (lives) lead to god. In fact we are walking alongside god at this moment by existing, though others have come in and spoiled the fun for everyone else and convinced them that lies are truth.

Everyone sees the light, but most do not realize it.

edit on 18-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Do you have the keys to all knowledge? Have you ever considered you could be wrong? It is possible you know...you could be wrong.

You say..."All of religion is a lie, they use our fear of death to scare people into believing their lies." That sounds like a personal opinion to me.

lol Allah is God. Same God as the Christians, Same God of the Jews. Allah is just God in english and God in Arabic is Allah.

There is no difference.

AGAIN... there is no difference.

The only difference is man. Man twists things, forms things to his own opinion and thus the old testament which stays generally true in all three religions gets somehow formed into one mans word and thus his own religion.

Follow the old testament and understand.

"as in the day of Noah so should be in the coming days of the son of man..."

Understand that. That is what we are fighting and must fight. Jesus was no question a prophet and if you want to label him as the Son of God then sure. God said Mary is to have a prophet and so it was.
If God said your wife is to bear a child then will he also be the son of God ? We are all his sons. God sais let it be and it is.

Understand that.

reply to post by kijne

That sounds like a personal opinion to me.

Well, that's basicly what ATS is.

A whole bunch of personal opinions.

What do you want for a dollar?

reply to post by jhill76

Would God really punish a person for being good throughout life?

If you enter this life with karmic debt then and do not fulfill your punishments then yes you will be punished no matter what good you do unless you get a chance to make the ultimate sacrifice to save someone. Good works help your neighbor get thru their punishment and suffering. Amanda Berry is now free from her debt. Hey it is what it is and we are here to grow spiritually in order to overcome our debt. Soon those without debt will be called to the arc while those with debt are sorted out. Some will get another chance to reincarnate and others will have to be spiritually bound to a place of torment until they can have another chance. It is time now for all to work out their punishments with the Holy Spirit. consensual sex is the key to most punishment. It is better to give than to receive.

reply to post by jhill76


All paths of inquiry lead to a concept? This I can agree with, but whether we call that concept god or not is completely up to the one who conceives of it.

Originally posted by jhill76
I have seen a quote posted:
Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu...all paths lead to God.

It seems as this would be correct. As what all these have in common, is teaching self to be better.

If religion teaches said person to be better, would that be what Father would want ultimately? As long as you lived life in a good way, no matter how you did it, religion or not.

But, it seems religion wants to claim sole rights on God. (Jesus is the only way, Allah is the true God, etc.)

Would God really punish a person for being good throughout life?

Religion and Dogma are nothing more then Men speaking for God.
Tisk-Tisk.

The true teachings of Jesus have been lost, muddled, and lost in translation.
He was not the only son of God, we all are.
You do not need the Church, you are the Church.
Love your neighbor even if they are your enemy.
You were never cast out of Eden, You are in Eden.
The Father of All, All that ever was, and All that ever will be
Would have forseen the Apple.
He would not put you there to say no.
He does not say no.
You were gifted with Free Will, and Reason.
There was no Fall of Man. Only a Fall of Angels.
If you think that man split hairs over homosexuality, or having a female apostle,
you havent been listening.

At the same time, when you read this, dont believe any of it.
Just please use it as a means to find your own answers,
I would very much like to hear what you have to come up with.

Even the wicked goto Heaven.
Especially the wicked.
Keep your friends close.....

Religious reply no. 42.

Jesus was trying to instruct us all in the path to the glory of heaven on earth.

Most, if not all, religions go about it using brute force and compliance.

The truth is, we are not all the chosen few that God selected during the old testimate. We are not the chosen by Hebrew standards. We are not the ones who the Koran selected as being privileged.

Jesus was the path for all of us to follow to the glory of heaven on earth. He chose the sinful, he chose the wicked, he chose the ones who had everything to lose if they believed.

The true path leads to understanding. If You think yourself above the rest, then the glory of heaven is within your grasp. For the rest of us, we'll have to work for it...as we have much more to sacrifice than You. We'll do what we feel is right no matter what church or belief states otherwise.

The glory of heaven is within you...regardless of belief.

reply to post by jhill76

Would God really punish a person for being good throughout life?

There is no rewards or punishments. Actions are just happening connected (some we call "cause" and some we call "effect"). It isn't personal, although one can see it personally if they wish.

If you do bad things, people will probably not like you and do bad stuff back.

All paths lead to Father?

If Father is "God" the wholeness, all-powerful, omnipresence, existing in all - then yes all "path" lead to father, and there is also no where to be "lead" since God is omnipresent, so God would just have to be realized.