Military Says No Presidential Authorization Needed To Quell “Civil Disturbances”

reply to post by jude11

Jude11,.
I can completely see the path we seem to be heading down,. it started a long time ago
and for me 911 was the biggie,. so many still believe that was only organized by a group
of people to solely fly planes into a building and create an illusion of terror. And yet to only real
victims by the government was the American people and stripping of rights and freedoms.
A complete agenda of imprisonment over a steady duration. Put a frog into boiling pan
of water and it will try to jump out,. put it in a nice comfy bath and turn up the heat till it boils
to death.

The problem we now have is,. the stage has now been set to jail ANYONE considered a threat to
the government,. Speak out against the POTUS or its minions and your now a terrorist.

So how to stop it? get a group of the willing and call yourselves the Wolverines? good luck
Tell the Media? mostly controlled by government anyway "FCC"

I hate what is coming and have seen it unfolding for many years now,. however Id say we are in
for a great battle and I think Many will give in to the lies and live as sheep.

Originally posted by derfreebie
My punctured heart goes out to you Jude, and first responder...
so far.
But the choir is already singing to a great ocean of who might
just as well be zombies with cable bills.

This is why I don't have too much hope in the recent scandals
getting under any of the GPs skin, even if the whole media
magically transform into Clark Kent without the fake personna.

They haven't needed any stinking badges since the last twenty
or so E.O.s:, much less anything the military is doing over the
table because of "Whatya gonna do about it?" Chicago Style.

That Military/ Industrial / Banking coup took deadly hold 50
years ago this November when the Real Mob painted Deely
Plaza with Jack from the sinuses on up... on TV.
America got real scared way down inside that day, and it's
been cultivated and capitalized on ever since. We know it.

But one ray of hope... that Chinese kid stopping the tank
proved that maybe the second last thing through any real
patriot's head is "WTH, dead's better than here."
A lot of us-- A LOT aren't there yet. Pray for a Colonels Coup.

edit on 17-5-2013 by derfreebie because: Typo...typical

Yes, but Tian'anmen Square was decades after the initial revolution that brought Mao into power. Matter of fact, it always takes the iron fist (or boot...) of repression to push down for a generation or so before enough people are fed up enough, with enough grievances to sustain a popular counter movement against a totalitarian regime.

Look at the disappearances in Argentina, or how long it took CZ with the Velvet Revolution or Poland to get Solidarność rolling after the Soviets came in. Every one tends to talk about this issue in two ways:

1.) It's never going to happen here and those aspects of our society that approach a police state are, as the OP pointed out, are believed to be "for our safety; for the children" (and the perennial, "if you haven't done anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about").

2.) it's starting to happen and the hoi polloi won't wake up, they won't pay attention or protest it; and, how can we make them.

My opinion is that we can't make them wake up because if this argument were EVEN on most of these citizens' radar screens, even at a cursory level, they would fall into camp number one...the vast majority.

The only thing that will wake them up will be experiencing the negative aspects of it first hand. To date, the US has done a great job of externalizing and/or segmenting the negative aspects on society of this incipient corporo-fascist police state. Either you feel it in the ghetto, the trailer park or the barrio, but never all three places for the same reason and at the same moment. When you sense any little inkling of it in suburbia (and we're starting to, it will always and firstly be blamed on the biggest victims. Scape goat is the term.

Some will hold fast to these scapegoats as time passes, but if we plot it on a graph, right now more people hold on to fantasy and delusion than those that let their scape goats out to pasture and see the brick wall of reality we're approaching rather quickly.

Good job jude, better thread then the one I made.

Star and flag.

I tell you, we have to wake up. We keep participating in government every four years and we keep participating in the corporations that pay the government off. Seems like the outcome of that would be obviously against us. Inform your Parents, inform your co workers, encourage people to move out of the city and in to the country. The city is not safe when these measure finally come to fruition. Everytime we vote, everytime we go to WalMart, everytime we buy GMO, everytime we support a War because of problem reaction solution, they gain one up on us and this has been going on quite some time now. STAY LOCAL! Sorry if I offend anyone but the potential prisoning of the planet is just what the Bible talks about. God Bless. & be safe.

Very very scary. Makes me and my wife's decision to live in Switzerland, as opposed to the US, all the more prudent...

Originally posted by jude11

Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by jude11
May 17, 2013 A recent Department of Defense instruction alters the US code applying to the military’s involvement in domestic law enforcement...

This thread here from a few days ago.
its not quite as black and white as your story makes it to be.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 17-5-2013 by alfa1 because: (no reason given)

First, it's NOT a "Story".

Secondly. Black and White is EXACTLY what we are facing. Remember Bush? "Either you're with us or against us."

Well, if he can lay down black or white, why do we have to stay in the gray? It's either right or wrong IMO.

Peace

edit on 17-5-2013 by jude11 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by ecapsretuo
reply to post by jude11

 

Anyone still believe that this hasn't been on the books for a very long time? They know we are getting fed up with their elitist control and it's only a matter of time. They are gearing up and many of us see it coming.

And there you have it ~ the real purpose of FEMA is to not only protect the government but to be its principal vehicle for martial law.

I have considered these ideas in light of the Boston bombing manhunt. I have found nothing in the media to indicate that the manhunt was commanded by FEMA's Massachusetts HQ, MEMA. Nor is there mention of MEMA's role in the manhunt on MEMA's own site.

Here is a transcription from the scanner of the MEMA announcement of Boston's lockdown, as heard over all police radios, during the manhunt.

THIS IS MEMA STATE CONTROL WITH AN IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT. DUE TO THE ONGOING MANHUNT FOR A PERSON WANTED IN CONNECTION WITH MONDAY'S MARATHON BOMBING, ALL MBTA SERVICES, BUSES, AND SUBWAYS HAVE BEEN SHUT DOWN EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY. PERSONS SHOULD NOT GO OR CONGREGATE AT TRANSPORTATION STATIONS. RESIDENTS IN WATERTOWN, NEWTON, WALTON, BELMONT, CAMBRIDGE, AND THE (?) AND BRIGHTON NEIGHBORHOODS OF BOSTON ARE ADVISED TO STAY INDOORS. RESIDENTS SHOULD REMAIN AND NOT ANSWER THE DOOR UNLESS IT IS A POLICE OFFICER AND ARE ADVISED TO STAY AWAY FROM WINDOWS. ALL BUSINESSES IN THESE TOWNS REMAIN CLOSED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. PEOPLE SHOULD NOT CONGREGATE OUTSIDE. RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES SHOULD MONITOR MEDIA FOR FURTHER INFORMATION. AGAIN THIS IS MEMA STATE CONTROL WITH AN IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT. (repeat)

Upon hearing this, a couple of thoughts occurred to me. I imagined being Joe street beat LEO, and hearing this announcement from the top. And it is suddenly upon my duty- without question or due process of chain of command- to enforce at least one directive which is contrary to the Bill of Rights. In this case, one is our right to congregate.
I secondly wondered, if these 9000 LEO's, operating by FEMA's dictate, had been making mass arrests, to what agency would the prisoner's custody be ultimately taken?

Indeed, since I heard the MEMA announce over police radio, I have considered that the Federal Government's
place in local, domestic policing is already established. FEMA seems to be the agency through by which the federal government may physically affect local, internal issues, such as "quelling domestic disturbances."

Boston was a test to see what they could and could not effectively do, what they could get away with and how both the local population as well as the LEOs would respond. They needed a small, urban setting - mini city such as Boston which has many different transportation hubs, systems and venues. This gave them all the various scenarios and components they might face elsewhere.

does not matter where you live this is the sort of attitude thats everywhere, good luck to all my brothers and sisters in shtf

Originally posted by Bilk22

Boston was a test to see what they could and could not effectively do, what they could get away with and how both the local population as well as the LEOs would respond. They needed a small, urban setting - mini city such as Boston which has many different transportation hubs, systems and venues. This gave them all the various scenarios and components they might face elsewhere.

edit on 18-5-2013 by Bilk22 because: (no reason given)

Well, they did say it was a drill.

Not sure how much of a drill is a "test" verses just "practice" for future engagements.

You may be happy they have these powers, especially if you live and/or work in major cities and urban areas.

When/if there is a complete breakdown in society and for one reason or another you are trapped in it, trying to escape it perhaps with your family, friends, loved ones etc... You may find hope and a way out if the military is there to restore law and order.

Originally posted by jude11

Originally posted by VoidHawk
S&F because this needs attention so FLAG this thread people!!

Sadly I fear its already too late. In the uk I now see privatized security forces roaming our streets, and recently I came across a bunch of youths all wearing a uniform and carrying a note pad. They were searching the streets for anyone or anything to write about in their notepads, it made me think of the Hitler youth who reported anyone and anything to the nazi's.

Thanks.

I am so frustrated, sick and tired of blind, brainwashed sheep being led to the pens with absolutely no idea of why.

I'm not angry with the sheep but actually starting to feel scared and sad for those that are too far gone. I guess I'll just keep posting in the hope that 1 or 2 pick up on the message and actually dig a little deeper than the MSM for the truth.

Then it's worth it...right?

Peace

You can be scared for those that are to far gone. I'll be scared for those of us that see plainly what is happening. Those of us that see what's coming, but are still unable to do a damn thing about it. I'll be sad for those of us that have predicted these things happening, while others have derided our concerns.

Beyond that, s&f's for this thread. Thank you for your vigilance.

This is all so profoundly disturbing, it's like every week (and sometimes every day) the current administration in the US is pushing further and further in this direction.

It's been pointed out in this thread or the other thread on this topic that this is not new, that this has been going on for some time, and that at least some of the wording in the DoD document has been there for years. That's true. But I thought the clip from Democracy Now of the Congressional hearing this past Thursday did an excellent job showing that they really are actively debating this authority right now in Congress, just 2 days ago.

In fact, I thought Democracy Now did such a good job on that short YouTube clip that I went out and found the full story on their website. I thought some of you might also want to see it or read their transcript. Here's the link:

Democracy Now: "Astoundingly Disturbing": Obama Administration Claims Power to Wage Endless War Across the Globe

Summary:

In Congress on Thursday, May 16, 2013, under questioning from Senator Lindsey Graham (Republican), Michael Sheehan [assistant secretary of defense in charge of special operations], Robert Taylor [acting general counsel for the Department of Defense] and Brigadier General Richard Gross [legal advisor to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff] indicated that they believe the President and the military are authorized virtually forever (an estimated minimum of 10-20 additional years) and without further Congressional approval to take any military action, including specifically drone strikes and "boots" on the ground in Yemen, the Congo, or anywhere in the world including domestically within the USA. They even specifically referenced Boston!

They believe that the "Authorization for Use of Military Force" [AUMF] enacted by Congress right after 9/11/2001 authorizes all of this and they do not need any additional legal authorization. And Senator Graham said he was fine with that!

Senator Angus King (Independent) then confronted all of them and pointed out that the wording of the AUMF is specifically limited to apply to those who "planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons." Senator King pointed out that their interpretation of the AUMF was so broad that "there's no limit" to what they can do and that "it renders the war powers of the Congress null and void."

"This is the most astounding and most astoundingly disturbing hearing that I’ve been to since I’ve been here," said Independent Sen. Angus King of Maine. "You guys have essentially rewritten the Constitution here today."

I couldn't agree more with Senator King.

Originally posted by ikonoklast
In Congress on Thursday, May 16, 2013, under questioning from Senator Lindsey Graham (Republican), Michael Sheehan [assistant secretary of defense in charge of special operations], Robert Taylor [acting general counsel for the Department of Defense] and Brigadier General Richard Gross [legal advisor to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff] indicated that they believe the President and the military are authorized virtually forever (an estimated minimum of 10-20 additional years) and without further Congressional approval to take any military action, including specifically drone strikes and "boots" on the ground in Yemen, the Congo, or anywhere in the world including domestically within the USA. They even specifically referenced Boston!

That's true. There are no geographic or time limits in the AUMF. It was tailored to target a transnational threat until such time as that threat was removed.

Senator Angus King (Independent) then confronted all of them and pointed out that the wording of the AUMF is specifically limited to apply to those who "planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons." Senator King pointed out that their interpretation of the AUMF was so broad that "there's no limit" to what they can do and that "it renders the war powers of the Congress null and void."

That's not true. Congress can amend or revoke the AUMF at any time, or defund activities taking place under the AUMF that they don't like. Senator King is trying to deflect blame for Congress's failure to act--or its failure to agree with him--onto the executive branch. The blame lies with Congress, or with Senator King for his inability to persuade his colleagues to adopt his point of view.

I love how righteous military people get when describing their duties... "I was over there protecting the Constitution for you!" Really? A bunch of disorganized mountain dwelling militants in Afghanistan are a threat to my Constitution? Our own government is the biggest threat to our Constitution, in the last 15 years we've seen the Bill of Rights figuratively urinated on by presidents and congresspeople alike. What's our military doing about that?

Originally posted by ausername

When/if there is a complete breakdown in society and for one reason or another you are trapped in it, trying to escape it perhaps with your family, friends, loved ones etc... You may find hope and a way out if the military is there to restore law and order.

By law and order you mean the status quo. The breakdown would be caused by discontent with our government run amok, and the military would "restore" things to the way they were before. Then why revolt in the first place if we're just going to take the cough syrup in the end?

reply to post by alfa1


this guy is probably an Alex big mouth idiot jones fan.even if the military tried a coupe , we are many many more then them.get a grip paranoid little man.

Originally posted by ausername
You may be happy they have these powers, especially if you live and/or work in major cities and urban areas.

When/if there is a complete breakdown in society and for one reason or another you are trapped in it, trying to escape it perhaps with your family, friends, loved ones etc... You may find hope and a way out if the military is there to restore law and order.

^^^This post was brought to you by FEAR and IGNORANCE. The main reasons America is the way it is today.


P.S. Thank you jude11, keep doing what you're doing.

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli

Originally posted by ikonoklast
...they believe the President and the military are authorized virtually forever (an estimated minimum of 10-20 additional years) and without further Congressional approval to take any military action, including specifically drone strikes and "boots" on the ground in Yemen, the Congo, or anywhere in the world including domestically within the USA...

That's true. There are no geographic or time limits in the AUMF. It was tailored to target a transnational threat until such time as that threat was removed.

I agree that there were no geographic or time limits in the AUMF as such, but there are limitations:

That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

SOURCE: Authorization for Use of Military Force PDF

In whatever DoD document Senator King was reading, someone had apparently added the words "associated forces" repeatedly, which are not in the AUMF. The representatives of the Department of Defense and the Joint Chiefs of Staff were arguing that this then gave authorization so broad as to allow virtually any military action anywhere against anyone as long as they could vaguely trace it to "associated forces," including taking military actions in Yemen, the Congo, and Boston (apparently a reference to the recent bombings and lockdown). And for a minimum of 10-20 more years.

Yemen, you might have a slight argument for. If my memory is correct, I believe Osama bin Laden was active in Yemen prior to moving to Afghanistan. Thus it's possible that there could be someone in Yemen who could have had something to do with the original 9/11 attacks (assuming you buy the official story). Congo? I guess anyone could go anywhere, but surely that's stretching it. And Boston? Assuming those 2 brothers did it, the younger brother must have been about 8 years old when the original 9/11 happened.

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli

Originally posted by ikonoklast
...Senator King pointed out that their interpretation of the AUMF was so broad that "there's no limit" to what they can do and that "it renders the war powers of the Congress null and void."

That's not true. Congress can amend or revoke the AUMF at any time, or defund activities taking place under the AUMF that they don't like. Senator King is trying to deflect blame for Congress's failure to act--or its failure to agree with him--onto the executive branch. The blame lies with Congress, or with Senator King for his inability to persuade his colleagues to adopt his point of view.

I don't know anything about Senator King other than than brief video clip, but apparently he has only been in Congress this year. I do agree with you that it's the responsibility of Congress to clarify, amend, or revoke the AUMF now that they know it is being interpreted like this. I am appalled that Senator Graham or anyone else in Congress is fine with such a broad interpretation of the AUMF.

I hadn't included it in my original summary of the news story, but Senator King did say that he agreed terrorism needed to be fought but that the language of the AUMF needed to be clarified if it was going to be interpreted so broadly.

i think it's not gonna happen. The answer to the obvious question:"why isn't it possible?" lies in the fact that military works under civil governments in democratic countries. o.w what's the difference b/w democracy and dictatorship ?

Originally posted by jude11
Listen up.

I know that a lot of people don't want me to keep posting this stuff. I get it. Really.

In fact I can almost guarantee which members will come running to this thread and call me a paranoid, tin foil hat wearing lunatic because I just won't fall in line and listen to the arguments of "It's for our safety" "Think of the children" "The US is only trying to make the World safe for everyone" Blah, Blah.

So I'll save myself a lot of time and the trolls/shills as well....I don't care what you think, believe or are being paid to push. You will not win.

Nicely said! Don't let them get to you! The truth of the matter is, they're already brainwashed and at this point, lost causes.

Thanks for this post. I can't flag it yet, but I gave it a star.