Diaper change in Starbucks seating area ends with store calling Denver police

Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by suz62

 

. . . You want to enjoy the company and the food and not the glares from people while your child screams'.

. . . . I have been in wine bars that offer tapas and people have screaming infants.

You've reminded me of my toddlerhood.

Was at the Dentist. I was terrified and screaming loudly, uncontrollably accordingly.

The Dentist finally asked my mother to step out.

The Dentist then proceeded to put his hand over my mouth. I bit his finger. He adjusted his hand.

I continued to scream.

He began pinching my nose off and on while holding his hand over my mouth.

He kept camly letting me know he'd remove his hand and let me breathe if I stopped screaming.

Bright little boy that I was, I quickly decided breathing was more important than screaming.

Mother came back in and had to know what the Dentist had done.

FOREVERMORE she was an INSISTENT missionary for that technique whenever she was around a screaming kid.

I suppose now it would be considered child abuse. Sheesh. It works well. I used it in a few counseling sessions after clarifying that the kid had no medical sinus etc. problems, first. Usually, I tried to get clients to leave their kids at home. Some couldn't. I made it clear at appointment time that

EITHER THEY CONTROLLED THEIR KIDS

OR

I CONTROLLED THEIR KIDS

OR

the session was over and they would leave.

They always could tell by my tone that I was quite serious.

Sometimes little 2 year old Johnny--in functional charge of the family with their spoiled, uncontrolled acting out--would test me right away--typically.

I'd say--something like--"Johnny, IF you touch that lamp, I will put you on my lap and you can't get down for 2 minutes." Of course, Johnny had to touch the lamp within 90 seconds of the limit being stated.

INSTANTLY Johnny would go in my lap. Instantly Johnny would begin to scream. Instantly my hand would go over Johnny's mouth.

Interestingly, [color=6699FF]after Johnny was recovered and released from my lap, he kept coming back and wanting to sit in my lap. It never failed. Johnny at some wiser internal instinctual level knew that him being in charge of the family was frightfully out of control. He recognized that limits were an important part of love and he was delighted to be close to that kind of limit setting love. Typically, I couldn't peel such kids off me after such a discipline bout.
.
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reply to post by proteus33


I don't understand all the lack of changing tables. It's evidently the law in my state. Even men's rooms have them--everywhere--certainly in restaurants.

Gotta agree with starbucks on this one, who changes a diaper on a public place where people eat on a table where other people eat?? Thats disgusting.

Originally posted by smilesmcgee

. . . and the person who sat at the table before you likely got feces on their hands just by using the bathroom and touching money.

A poopy(if it even was one) diaper is not appetizing by a long shot, but it isn't the end of the world.

If I was the waitress, I would have used an alcohol wipe to wipe where the family was after they left, but I probably would have never considered this an issue otherwise.

I don't recall where I saw the thread on a recent bacteriological study or several studies . . . IIRC . . .

1. menu's
2. money
3. bathroom door handles
3. soap dispensers

are all horrific about being coated with very dreadful bacteria--some quite serious--plenty of fecal type stuff. And evidently plenty of MRSA in too many cases.

Using anti-bacterial wet-wipes is simply self-preservation wisdom, these days.

There's currently a tussle between someone at the college and I about the men's room 2nd trash can. There's a trash can under the towel dispenser. And an 2nd one to the right of the towel dispenser--often in the corner on the way to the exit door. I typically move it where it should be--near the door so that one can open the exit door with the paper towel and then toss it in the nearby trash can. Whoever the other bloke is--doesn't get it--keeps moving the trash can back near the towel dispenser--which already has one built-in, under it. LOL. People are fascinating when they aren't infuriating.

In this case, I'd think that a watchful employee would have been able to see the mother ABOUT TO change the diaper and they could have noted a health department policy on the matter and offered a towel or something for the bathroom floor. Prevention would have been better than aftermath.

Given the mother's cheek--she might well have refused. At that point, I think a firm stance would have been important, even at the loss of a cheeky customer. Perhaps a "Mamm, If you insist on changing your baby's diaper there, I will have no choice but to call the police or lose my job." . . . would have been necessary . . . or some such.

On the other hand . . . with different fingers . . . I have seen countless children changed on the seat of a restaurant booth without the world ending. It sure isn't preferable and it is a health hazard. It certainly can contribute much less than appetizing aromas to the dining experience.

I think my mother would have changed a diaper on the hood of her car, if that's what was available. I suppose she'd have chosen the car seat first but not necessarily. She didn't exactly care that much what others thought on such matters. She didn't want to offend or inconvenience but she had her priorities.

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reply to post by suz62


Now you are on to breastfeeding. My goodness, do you bake little kids in your oven at home too?

After reading many of these responses, having a few good discussions with others where we 'saw each others points', I have just proved to myself once again that there is inherently something wrong with the basics of civility with Americans. If society collapsed we will not last 4 days let alone 4 weeks or months.

The majority now are selfish, self centered spoiled people who believe that there are not responsible for their actions or their children. They used to be the minority. Those of you saying that there should be no kids in Starbucks is just, well, so sad.

1. The parents were wrong in throwing coffee on the ground. That caused the argument.
2. I would fire the employee who fought with the customer. No ifs and or buts. You cannot do that no matter where you work.
3. The child had to see all of this. If the parents are ignorant enough to not be prepared then they should not have the child but hey, you need a license for a gun but not the have a child. I am sure it is in Obamacare somewhere though so be ready to get a license.
4. What has happened to us as a people where we are talking about how horrible children are. You were all kids and I am sure you # and screamed all the time. They are little kids. Why did someone not approach them and ask if they would like to use their vehicle. I would have but I was raised to help people, and, when appropriate protect them.

Besides, if you think a Starbucks or any place is clean, remember this. When people go to the restroom, they all use the same handle when leaving. Piss, feces and boogers are there even after you washed you hands.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
This thread should be about starbugs not providing facilities.

Not every business should be FORCED into providing facilities for every eventuality. Are you telling me there was absolutely no alternative to changing the baby right there on a freakin table? That's BS.

How did millions of people manage before baby changing units in toilets at restaurants and coffee shops? How the hell did all our parents, and their parents, manage to survive?

Convenience is just that, convenient. It is not the job of a private company to cater to the every desire of every single potential member of the public. Don't like it? Don't go to Starbucks, simple as that.

reply to post by esdad71


If I got out of line my mother gave me a good slap and I STFU. That's how it should be. Children used to be far better behaved because of it.

Originally posted by stirling
How do all you fools even know there WAS # in the diaper?or that she didnt put a change pad/towel down on the seat first?
What if it was just a pissy diaper?
Would THAT soothe your delicate sensibilities?
Give a MOM a break...........you have no sense of reality....

edit on 18-5-2013 by stirling because: (no reason given)

Dont you realise a whole lot of arseholes are constantly just a piece of cloth away from the seat?
People fart !

edit on 18-5-2013 by stirling because: (no reason given)

Doesnt matter what was in it.

Rather it be poo or pee, it's rude to change a diaper in a restaurant.

reply to post by suz62


No, children were better because parents paid more attention to them and They did not have their nose in a phone or an iPad. I got the hot wheels track a few times as a kid but I also had direction and not a digital babysitter. Sports. Activity. KIds used to say 'can I go outside and now they say "can I play on your phone? Overweight and selfish. I see it in the my kids school and in coaching my sons sports. No respect.

The parents of the child were probably never shown proper parenting and a lot of the time, not all, is because a split home in America is the norm now. Different people coming and going in a child's like with different means of discipline or non interaction and we are seeing this now as these kids are having kids.

If your mom did smack you around I hope it did not carry over into your life now and you have been able to come to terms in some way but what I see from your posts it did not. You are angry and hate kids and think they should be beaten to straighten them out as a first line of deterrence.

Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by suz62

 

Which is why we do not eat out with our little kids if I go to a nice restaurant. You cannot enjoy the meal. You want to enjoy the company and the food and not the glares from people while your child screams.

This thread is about a Starbucks though. A fast food coffee shop that has a kids menu. That is basically how, if you do not want to eat around children, should filter where you eat. If they have a kids menu, expect kids. If not, then you should not have kids there. I have been in wine bars that offer tapas and people have screaming infants. Annoying, yes, but not enough to ruin my meal and evening.

Since you mentioned a "kids menu" several times, I had to see just exactly what was on the "kids menu".

They do have ice cream and sweets but it doesnt appear they actually have a "kids menu". I may have missed it

www.starbucks.com...

reply to post by snarky412
It isn't, and shouldn't be, mandatory. Businesses started installing changing tables in their restrooms as a courtesy and that's exactly what they are- a courtesy! I remember the first time I ever saw one. It looked so flimsy I was afraid to put my kid on it lest it collapsed.

People have become so used to some courtesies they feel entitled and become irate if they aren't provided for. They seem to forget that businesses are under no obligation to provide every single little convenience they have become accustomed to, and they can willingly take their business elsewhere if they aren't happy. For example, both of my daughters are working at a bar and grill currently. They serve food and families are welcome until 10pm, after which only drinks are served and it operates in the capacity of a bar only. A few nights ago a couple started threatening one of my kids because she wouldn't allow them to bring in their children after 10pm. She had to threaten to call the police they became so rowdy. People have heard "the customer is always right" so many times that if they aren't catered to and every whim fulfilled they feel they have the right to act like ignorant fools.

P.S The family is all doing great! I'm glad to see you back around the boards- you have been missed. I figured you were busy with work since it's that season again. Hope things are going great this year. Also, did you ever get a new Lab?

reply to post by riverwild



It is on their main site and You may have to drill down but it is there and if you go to the stores you will see specials.Pairings of apple juice and fresh granola, etc... There is also a 'secret kids drink menu' that will appear seasonal. Like I has stated before, my wife managed on back in 06-08. Never had an issue with kids or parents who would walk with their kids and strollers and come get a coffee.

They have talked for years about how to cater more to kids because parents with order and Iced Frap and give it to a 4 y/o. Then they wonder why the kids is bouncing off the walls..

reply to post by VoidHawk

This thread should be about starbugs not providing facilities.

It should, but people in the West today are very ego-centric and don't think that far.

First, Baby Changing Tables are NOT required by law in public restrooms. I have seen many that do not provide them.
Second, the public and retail and restaurant establishments are NOT responsible for your children and do not have to cater to them.
YOU, the family, guardian or parents are responsible for your children.

A baby should not be changed in a public dinning area period. I don’t care if its on a table, chair, counter, floor, stroller etc… It is still within site and smell of the patrons who are there trying to enjoy food. Not only is it unpleasant to all the senses of the patrons it is unsanitary and plan rude. This is a common space where food is prepared and consumed. You also never know what kind of creepy dangerous person is around watching and plotting.

As a person who has 13 years coffee house experience and 6 years hotel experience, the public can be HORRIBLE!! The sense of entitlement people have is unbelievable. Rules do not apply to them and everyone should kiss their arse. They also have no respect for the people working or the establishment they are in. You would not believe they way people treat servers, public establishments or hotel rooms. Just because someone gets paid to serve and clean up after them doesn’t mean you get to be a rude, disrespectful, destructive and repulsively and dangerously dirty. It really makes me wonder how these people treat their own homes.

It really makes me mad that people and companies keep apologizing to people, who are rude, mean and in the WRONG. As a whole this country has become to politically correct and it sickens me.

Starbucks is an overpriced cup of crappy coffee. I question why the person was even there to begin with.

Originally posted by Arolexion
Gotta agree with starbucks on this one, who changes a diaper on a public place where people eat on a table where other people eat?? Thats disgusting.

As said before this was not done on table but seat, where everyone puts their ass, I'm sure some even put their ass on table, but child was changed in seat area. Read story here is quote.

QUOTE
"Burgos noticed there was no changing table at the Denver Starbucks on the 7900 block of East 49th Avenue so she changed her son's diaper in the seating area.

"I just kind of wiped him off, cleaned him off as quickly as I could," Burgos said.

Alex Burgos says a Starbucks employee tossed his wife a rag and spoke to her in a "demeaning" tone.

"He said make sure to wipe the seat when you're done," he said. "They started talking amongst themselves and laughing about"

SAYS Make sure you wipe Seat

reply to post by snarky412


They could have done it in the car like any normal person and the employee is not paid to deal with baby poop so the parent's were out of order, the victim here is the child but then again that must explain the nutty flavour of some starbucks tax dodging coffee's.

Diaper change in Starbucks seating area ends with store calling Denver police

Saw this on media website.

My thoughts are pretty simple here; having been a parent on multiple occasions, diaper emergencies in public spaces is not at all uncommon. But when applied with a little common sense, incidents like this have no need to occur.

Take the kid to the car. You have ample privacy at seat level in almost all directions. Change said diaper. Place dirty material in an old plastic shopping bag (or empty fast food bag) that you should have on hand anyway for just this sort of moment. With child properly cleaned up, reenter establishment, place your order and the cops can keep on eating donuts and writing citations.

Originally posted by littled16
reply to post by snarky412

 

It isn't, and shouldn't be, mandatory. Businesses started installing changing tables in their restrooms as a courtesy and that's exactly what they are- a courtesy! I remember the first time I ever saw one. It looked so flimsy I was afraid to put my kid on it lest it collapsed.

People have become so used to some courtesies they feel entitled and become irate if they aren't provided for. They seem to forget that businesses are under no obligation to provide every single little convenience they have become accustomed to, and they can willingly take their business elsewhere if they aren't happy. For example, both of my daughters are working at a bar and grill currently. They serve food and families are welcome until 10pm, after which only drinks are served and it operates in the capacity of a bar only. A few nights ago a couple started threatening one of my kids because she wouldn't allow them to bring in their children after 10pm. She had to threaten to call the police they became so rowdy. People have heard "the customer is always right" so many times that if they aren't catered to and every whim fulfilled they feel they have the right to act like ignorant fools.

P.S The family is all doing great! I'm glad to see you back around the boards- you have been missed. I figured you were busy with work since it's that season again. Hope things are going great this year. Also, did you ever get a new Lab?

As one poster stated earlier, this had turned into an entitlement generation, where the parents expect every one to bend over backwards for them 'cause they got a kid [not including you, of course...hee,hee]

And to expect to bring a kid to a bar, WTH??

What ever happened to 'bed time' for young kids?
I had to be in bed by 9 P.M. , 10 when I was in high school.
Now we see parents with young squirts at Wally World at 2 or 3 in the morning [that's when we like to go, since our lifestyle is the opposite of bankers hours...LOL]

My how times have changed....or rather are changing.

-----------------

P.S. No, no poochie dog yet.
My birthday was a week ago and no puppie. And being as this has been one FUBAR week, that would have been an added worry.
Ah, the life on the road.....

I'm glad to hear every one is doing good on your home front....

Originally posted by suz62
reply to post by esdad71

 

If I got out of line my mother gave me a good slap and I STFU. That's how it should be. Children used to be far better behaved because of it.

My Mom could take me into a China Shop knowing I would never, ever, ever touch a thing.
My hands were down by my sides or in front of me.

To this day, I still don't handle items unnecessarily.
Partly due to what was bred into me plus being as I am in retail, I know how it is to clean up after others.

And as far as eating in a restaurant, no way were we allowed to act up.
We weren't even allowed to slurp through our straws without getting a swift kick from underneath the table.
In her eyes, it reflected badly on her if we acted unruly and she was damned if we would embarrass her.

To this day, when ever I do slurp, I can't help but think of my Mom and grin......