Congressman: IRS asked pro-life group about 'the content of their prayers'

During a House Ways and Means Committee hearing today, Rep. Aaron Schock, R-Ill., grilled outgoing IRS commissioner Steven Miller about the IRS targeting a pro-life group in Iowa.

“Their question, specifically asked from the IRS to the Coalition for Life of Iowa: ‘Please detail the content of the members of your organization’s prayers,’" Schock declared.

“Would that be an inappropriate question to a 501 c3 applicant?” asked Schock. “The content of one’s prayers?”

“It pains me to say I can’t speak to that one either,” Miller replied.

Source

They have the paperwork to prove it. They being the Thomas More Society. A Christian pro-life group. I personally am neither Christian (lost my faith a long time ago) nor pro-life (I don't believe that any man should have a say on the subject but the father,) but what if the other side takes over and does the same to YOUR allies and philosophy?

The IRS targetted these groups and if you read some of my other threads you'll see it goes to the top-tier if not the top itself. This is as unexcusable as Bush sending me off with a lie and a flag.

For all of you Obama supporters...

"Maybe it is time to stop trying to outsmart the truth and let it have its day." - Alfred Pennyworth

reply to post by thesungod


Perhaps the Thomas More Society was complicit by not exposing this the second they received that form? I mean really, what would you or I do? If I got that form, I would plaster it on every website I could get my hands on. Plus i would have contacted every local news station. The IRS would have burned in days!

Anyways, this is soo terribly wrong! What more can I say?

reply to post by elouina


Lazy or not knowing maybe, but complicit? Tax-law is extremely muddled and even a "tax-lawyer" will give a disclaimer. Not excusing them, but at the same time, it deserves a bit of doubt because of how deep and foggy tax-law is.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by elouina

 

Lazy or not knowing maybe, but complicit? Tax-law is extremely muddled and even a "tax-lawyer" will give a disclaimer. Not excusing them, but at the same time, it deserves a bit of doubt because of how deep and foggy tax-law is.

I would hope that every american is aware that they have the freedom of religion. And that no government office has the right to question them about it. They had the chance to expose this before a lot more people got hurt. They are a christian group, correct? All the more reason....

An individual is complicit in a crime if he/she is aware of its occurrence and has the ability to report the crime,

Wikipedia definition of complicity

reply to post by elouina


Tell me all the rules of the tax law? Better yet, call a tax-lawyer and ask them the rules. It is wholly subjective to the Governments whim and hence why we are seeing this; past or present.

They are the sole arbitrators of such a ruling.

ETA:
First sentence was meant for another thread....fixed

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by elouina

 

Tell me all the rules of the tax law? Better yet, call a tax-lawyer and ask them the rules. It is wholly subjective to the Governments whim and hence why we are seeing this; past or present.

They are the sole arbitrators of such a ruling.

ETA:
First sentence was meant for another thread....fixed

edit on 17-5-2013 by ownbestenemy because: (no reason given)

No matter the tax laws they do not trump the freedom of religion. Sorry but this one is a gimmie....

reply to post by elouina


I am not arguing that the tax laws trump basic Constitutional Rights. I am not sure where you got that from. Maybe I will review my post to find out.

reply to post by thesungod


Unreal. Absolute power and the corruption therein.

You know the questions involved more than prayers. One conservative group provided a list of 20 questions they were asked.

Invasive or appropriate? 20 questions the IRS asked conservative groups

Here are a sampling of the questions:

"Provide details regarding your relationship with Justin Binik-Thomas."

"Have you attempted or will you attempt to influence the outcome of specific legislation? If so, provide the following: Etc...

"Please provide copies of all your current web pages, including your blog posts. Please provide copies of all of your newsletters, bulletins, flyers, newsletters or any other media or literature you have disseminated to your members or others. Please provide copies of stories and articles that have been published about you."

"Do you directly or indirectly communicate with members of legislative bodies? If so, provide copies of the written communications and contents of other forms of communications. Please include the percentage of time and resources you have spent or will spend conducting these activities in relation to 100 percent of all your activities."

"Apart from your responses to the preceding, estimate the percentage of your time and what percentage of your resources you would devote to activities in the 2012 election cycle in which you will explicitly or implicitly support or oppose a candidate, candidates, or slate of candidates, for public office."

What do any of these questions have to do with taxation based on income, deductibles, assets, savings, dependents, and investments?

This whole thing is flabbergasting. I'm neither religious nor to the right politically, but if this doesn't represent a de facto federal agency violating the equal protection clause I don't know what rightly would. Unless they ask everyone these questions, and I highly doubt that.

Peace.

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep,
If I should die before I wake,
Send transcripts to the IRS, my contact is Jake.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The Obama administration HAD to know this was going on. There is no way that someone who at least works/ed directly for Obama did not direct this to happen.

As the head of the executive branch which is in charge of the IRS, the buck stops at Obama. It stops there weather he wants it to or not.

Obama and his now we know completely corrupt organization (chicago thug style organization) is as inherently corrupt and power hungry and fascist as has ever existed on the face of the earth.

To deny his corruption and organizational involvement in all of these awful scandals is to have your head in the sand. If you don't think this is corruption then are you happy to tell Obama, how much money you have in your wallet, the contents of all of your emails and facebook posts no matter how personal, the content of your prayers. If you are ok with telling Obama, remember, eventually there will be another president, one who you don't like or think is corrupt or evil, will you then say sure I'll tell you all that stuff happily?

those are some crazy questions for taxes.

i would not answer

It's time for the abolition of the IRS. They have grown to such power and corruption they need to be ended. Not more regulations, not new leadership. We need full abolition and the institution of a flat tax or fair tax structure.

if they are trying to get tax exempt status by being a religious group i would HOPE the IRS would actually try to make SURE they are really a religious group. that would mean asking dumb questions like what kind of prayers they say. otherwise EVERYONE can be a religious group and not pay taxes. they do have to figure things out you know.

reply to post by pasiphae


501c(3) orgs are designated and generally defined by the IRS as non-profit and deals with their handling of their revenue stream; not their religious intent.

I suggest you learn the First Amendment.

How is asking about the nature of their prayers got anything to do with a "non-profit"... seeing how Westboro Baptist Church is a non-profit church that "prays with hate" appears to be acceptable.

Is there an IRS code that specifies what type of prayer is acceptable?

On a side note: targeting is the daily operation of the IRS. Personally ungoing a "witch hunt" audit that lasted over 3 years, intimidation was their number one priority. As a self employed individual I actually found on the IRS website a document stating that they targeting a specific "industry", which happened to be the one I am in.

As a small business I was disallowed legitimate deductions such as cell phone expenses (because I couldn't prove it wasn't used for personal use because the cell phone bills no longer contain the individual calls anymore) and I was disallowed common things like copy paper. And that is after I had to provide every single receipt sent into them copied onto copy paper. I'm sure I went through 2,500 pieces of copy paper. Even made 6 notebooks to keep everything straight.

They even went so far to request a copy of my client database and telephone numbers so they could call my customers to see if I really did business with them. This is where we put our foot down and said no.

Upon hearing that they disallowed ALL my business expenses for 3 years. They were now coming after an additional $75K in taxes, nearly double what I had already paid them.

It was unfair, it was intimidating, it was insulting. The auditor actually told my CPA to his face that "your clients are lying on their taxes and I'm going to prove it and I don't care how long it takes."

We eventially took my case to appeals, I won on most issues but lost on others. My 3 year audit netted them about $5,000.

This robbed 3 years of my life, caused my income to drop 50% because I was spending so much time on the audit. It was criminal.

Originally posted by thesungod
...but what if the other side takes over and does the same to YOUR allies and philosophy?

Can you get more people to think like you? THIS is the point so many of us have been pounding our heads against the wall to get through the the RED vs. BLUE crowds here on ATS! It's not about sticking it to the libs, or the cons, it's about government sticking it to the people, et al.

In every neighborhood there's nice church buildings up to and including massive cathedrals to the 'glory of god', all not paying taxes and all enjoying the infrastructure that everyone else, including the non-religious, have to pay for. Meanwhile these buildings go empty and unused most of the day when they could be being used for homeless shelters, schools and community centers. Many churches are guilty of political activities which is against the law...

It's high time for churches to pay taxes like the rest of us. I'm sure they can pray for the money they need, cuz we all know praying to an imaginary friend works, right? There's no excuse for ersatz political organizations to be exempt from paying taxes like the rest of us. Don't like it? Work on getting rid of the IRS and instituting a Fair Tax.

Originally posted by pasiphae
if they are trying to get tax exempt status by being a religious group i would HOPE the IRS would actually try to make SURE they are really a religious group. that would mean asking dumb questions like what kind of prayers they say. otherwise EVERYONE can be a religious group and not pay taxes. they do have to figure things out you know.

Tax exempt by being non-profit not religious. There is a difference. Did you know Occupy Wall Street incorporated itself as a 501C3? Are they religious? How come we are not hearing reports the IRS questioned application?

And besides, donations have already been taxed once before it ever went to Church.