Lies,Lies, and Damn lies: Obama blames Benghazi on Congress

reply to post by cholo


Not really,

That was leading from behind, and let others do the fighting, and dying, then take all the credit then spike the football of how totally awesome he is.

That is not a 'leader'

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by cholo

 

I suppose you give no credit to Eisenhower because the troops did the actual fighting

Eisenhower had military service, and was actually, a leader, not a blamer.

Obama made the call to take out Osama, it was the right call, Obama is commander and chief.

Originally posted by NavyDoc
Yes, it is the American people, not partisan politics that are the most important which is why, if a public servant, even if he is the chief public servant, causes through negligence, stupidity, or overt action he or she must be held accountable and even removed from the post he or she is entrusted. Misuse of the public trust by the chief executive from targeted audits of the IRS to negligence that leads to deaths to violating the sanctity of the free press all should be investigated and those responsible should be held accountable if we wish to have a free society.

Yes, if a public servant had been negligent and stupid that had caused the american lives lost in Benghazi, should be held accountable before a court of law and be fairly judged.

BUT....had the president been negligent and stupid over the Benghazi event - an event NONE knew would happened, and even the ambassador himself who knew it was a dangerous area to go in decided on his own free will to go there, which cost the lives of 3 more precious americans trying to save him?

Was the authorities stupid NOT to send in the small team of spec ops to battle against a HARDED WAR EXPERIENCED 100+ HEAVILY ARMED TERRORIST GROUP there?

IF anyone is to be tried, the republcan ISSA should be sent for alluding that the president had been negligent and the military stupid. American need no fools like Issa CONTINUALLY kicking up a storm, and flogging a dead horse when there are more pressing issues such as the economy to settle.

AND, if anyone is negligent and stupid, be tried and remove from office, the republicans entire lot should be sent to leavenworth prison to serve time for neglecting the economy with their continued belligerences to serve the rich but tax the poor.

reply to post by cholo


A call anyone would have made what others would not have done is throw the body in the sea to swim with the fishes.

Forget the wanted dead or alive poster from the previous admin?

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by cholo

 

Not really,

That was leading from behind, and let others do the fighting, and dying, then take all the credit then spike the football of how totally awesome he is.

That is not a 'leader'

I'm sorry, I don't speak in Palin talk (what does leader from behind mean anyways?)

Did you expect Obama to get on a helicopter with seal team??? ,

Please show me which presidents have gone and executed a mission with a seal team?

Originally posted by cholo

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by cholo

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by cholo
reply to post by neo96

 

Fighting from above is cheaper, and American troop don't have to die.
What you think of as cowardly, sounds pretty smart to me. Maybe Obama
Should send you since you are so courageous.

However, fighting from above often does not get the job done and puts innocent people at risk, especially in urban environments that are a chaotic mix of enemies and civilians. At times like this incident, boots on the ground is what is needed.

Obviously Obama did not learn the art of war being a community organizer.

I've been boots on the ground. You?

Obama was competent enough to kill Bin Laden, and decimate al queda leadership, so

Boots on the ground in Iraq And Afghanistan has been a marvelous idea, just what we need,
Another occupation, and a couple more hundred billion in debt!

No the SEALS that he gave permission to kill Bin Ladin did so. All the president does is give permission for the professionals to handle the problem: something he denied them in Benghazi. Fast reaction teams were on the tarmac ready to go not once, but twice. Those professionals could have rescued the embassy personel but were forbidden to do so. Whomever made that call is responsible for the deaths of those people.

And Obama would have been racked over the coals if the Bin Laden mission failed. It might have started and international event. Obama is commander and chief, I suppose you give no credit to Eisenhower because the troops did the actual fighting

It is cute that Obama is responsible for the act of Lybian fighters, but not for the mission that he green lighted and orchestrated, that is a very cute thing you want me to buy into.

Not cute at all. The chief executive is responsible for making the decision to do something. Eisenhower would not and did not take the credit for the actions of his soldiers. He very eloquently and humbley did so quite often. He did not say "I did this" he said "These brave men did this." Unlike the present CIC, Ike as a good leader should, gave the credit of successes to the men in the trenches and, as the leader, took blame for the failures. The current CIC takes personal credit for the successes and fignerpoints at the failures.

If he refused to let the relief efforts out because the election was around the corner, letting Americans die because of his personal reelection ambitions, then he should rightfully be removed form it. This partisan defense of bad actions at all costs is not conducive to the truth nor justice.

Originally posted by cholo

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by cholo

 

But you're illustrating your own hypocrisy when you defend Obama by showing the wrongs that Bush did.

Hypocrite, thy name is cholo.

I don't blame Bush for embassy attacks under his watch, I blame the people who did the attacking.

I like your personal attack though. I bet when I attack back you and the gang will call the mods on me and
Pretend that I am the one dishing out all the venom

I bet this post will be removed as the lot of you work to
Censor me by using the moderation system.

Straight question then.

Is Obama as culpable as Bush was?

Yes or no.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by cholo

 

A call anyone would have made what others would not have done is throw the body in the sea to swim with the fishes.

Forget the wanted dead or alive poster from the previous admin?

edit on 16-5-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

What is your point?

The previous administration invaded TWO countries, spent a trillion dollars and
Didn't get Bin Laden, if you wanna talk about commander and chief. You should stop putting
Your foot in your mouth.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

So, you know what Romney would have done then?

Crystal Balling things much?

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

Originally posted by NavyDoc
Yes, it is the American people, not partisan politics that are the most important which is why, if a public servant, even if he is the chief public servant, causes through negligence, stupidity, or overt action he or she must be held accountable and even removed from the post he or she is entrusted. Misuse of the public trust by the chief executive from targeted audits of the IRS to negligence that leads to deaths to violating the sanctity of the free press all should be investigated and those responsible should be held accountable if we wish to have a free society.

Yes, if a public servant had been negligent and stupid that had caused the american lives lost in Benghazi, should be held accountable before a court of law and be fairly judged.

BUT....had the president been negligent and stupid over the Benghazi event - an event NONE knew would happened, and even the ambassador himself who knew it was a dangerous area to go in decided on his own free will to go there, which cost the lives of 3 more precious americans trying to save him?

Was the authorities stupid NOT to send in the small team of spec ops to battle against a HARDED WAR EXPERIENCED 100+ HEAVILY ARMED TERRORIST GROUP there?

IF anyone is to be tried, the republcan ISSA should be sent for alluding that the president had been negligent and the military stupid. American need no fools like Issa CONTINUALLY kicking up a storm, and flogging a dead horse when there are more pressing issues such as the economy to settle.

AND, if anyone is negligent and stupid, be tried and remove from office, the republicans entire lot should be sent to leavenworth prison to serve time for neglecting the economy with their continued belligerences to serve the rich but tax the poor.

The reaction team with air support would have a great chance of succeeding. Many such actions have done well in the past. The problem is that piles of dead insurgents and potential civilian collateral damage would have not played well to an election audience. Those 4 americans died because of an upcoming election.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by cholo

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by cholo

 

But you're illustrating your own hypocrisy when you defend Obama by showing the wrongs that Bush did.

Hypocrite, thy name is cholo.

I don't blame Bush for embassy attacks under his watch, I blame the people who did the attacking.

I like your personal attack though. I bet when I attack back you and the gang will call the mods on me and
Pretend that I am the one dishing out all the venom

I bet this post will be removed as the lot of you work to
Censor me by using the moderation system.

Straight question then.

Is Obama as culpable as Bush was?

Yes or no.

Yes, for embassy attacks, yes. They cannot control the actions of foreigners in another country.

reply to post by cholo

I'm sorry, I don't speak in Palin talk (what does leader from behind mean anyways?)

Sorry don't speak political trolling.

Did you expect Obama to get on a helicopter with seal team???

No I expect him to sit in a bunker, and watch it on TV like someone playing COD4.

reply to post by cholo


I didn't ask you to qualify it.

You questioned me calling you a hypocrite. I'm giving you an oppourtunity to prove me wrong.

Is Obama as culpable as Bush?

Yes or no?

reply to post by cholo

The previous administration invaded TWO countries, spent a trillion dollars and Didn't get Bin Laden, if you wanna talk about commander and chief. You should stop putting Your foot in your mouth.

And the current administration invaded 3 countries spent trillions more he didn't get Gaddafi libyan's beat and dragged him through the streets of Tripoli.

Then invaded another country Pakistan to "kill Bin Laden" and left a Pakistani doctor in prison, and took all the credit.

Then threw Seal Team six out with the bath water, then left 4 Americans out to die in Benghazi.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Wow a lot of frustration you have there any time I see someone trying to deflect by saying it was the other party tells me you believe politicians well guess what the lie.And because you associate yourself with said party your ok with it unless of course the other side is in office.My god no politicians who lie remain in office people are fools.Just to help you get some facts straight those two former marines that died called for help made several phone calls and were in fact alive by the time help could have arrived if the troops were not told to stand down. The question is who called off the troops and why whoever that is sentenced thise two marines to death.

reply to post by NavyDoc


That's more BS. The so called 'air support' was in Italy and by the time it got there, how many of that small spec ops team that is not enough to fill up one C130 would be alive still, more so when these war hardened heavily armed 100+ terrorists could easily blended in with the population in Benghazi?

Start talking sense, will ya? I can understand if you have no military experience, or any military experience is through the lens of your own gunsight, however, there is a bigger picture out there, which even a village idiot can see, and it has got NOTHING to do with the elections then.

No human, let alone a leader of a nation, would allow the indiscriminate slaughter of a population in the Benghazi by an air strike or a small wild spec ops team to avenge the deaths of 4 americans.....but perhaps republicans, espacially Issa would?

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Wow a lot of frustration you have there any time I see someone trying to deflect by saying it was the other party tells me you believe politicians well guess what the lie.And because you associate yourself with said party your ok with it unless of course the other side is in office.My god no politicians who lie remain in office people are fools.Just to help you get some facts straight those two former marines that died called for help made several phone calls and were in fact alive by the time help could have arrived if the troops were not told to stand down. The question is who called off the troops and why whoever that is sentenced thise two marines to death.

Originally posted by cholo

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by cholo

 

I take your reply to mean..you aren't going to back up anything this time either? You really had a long running fight going on that other thread, when you claimed you were just leaving ATS forever. All anyone asked for there was support. Something to back your opinions with. Anything at all, really.

It's what I'm again asking for here. You're making claims that are supportable and provable....as true OR false. O'd love to have you show them to hold some truth. Thus far, you haven't and don't seem interested in support of any claim you're making here. That's a hard thing to debate...when the truth is pretty much, however you say it is and change as the debate goes on. Pics or it didn't happen...is a common refrain heard across ATS. In this case? Support or it's pure opinion.

Unfortunately this entire argument is based perspective and it is clear that you have a muddled perspective.
This entire thread is based upon the idea of culpability, which is a concept that is not based in fact, culpability is a
Judgement call, and I think you judgement is clouded by hatred for Obama.

Actually, no. This topic is not based on perspective. It is based on fact. Where facts are not clear or available (MOST of the details fall into this right now), investigation is required to determine them. Prior to hearing from the 3 witnesses at last weeks hearing? One could make the argument that no credible data existed to direct contradict the positions taken at State, CIA and the White House in the days following events.

Now, we know that to be false or ..know enough to know there must be more investigation to determine precisely where fact and fiction are divided on this.

Prior to last week's sworn testimony by career diplomats and Government employees? We didn't know how much we didn't know. Now? We have a good enough idea to understand there is far more than can be "let go".

Also, for the record, my feelings about Obama are irrelevant. I've said at least 3 times now, I DO NOT WANT to see Obama pursued directly or as an individual. It will turn this whole thing into an endless 3 ring circus where no one below him gets tagged for what they did to help murder 4 good Americans. Seeing Obama fall for this is the LAST thing I want.

After all.. Obama down means President Biden, Boehner, Leahy or Kerry as the next #4 in line of succession for the Presidency. Given the extremely volatile state of the world? A shake up within the White House itself is NOT helpful on ANY level right now. That, however, gives NO ONE a pass for what has happened here. Let the chips fall where they may.....but lets aim for those who really made this happen, is my feeling. There is plenty of time to get to failures in leadership, later.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by cholo

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by cholo

 

But you're illustrating your own hypocrisy when you defend Obama by showing the wrongs that Bush did.

Hypocrite, thy name is cholo.

I don't blame Bush for embassy attacks under his watch, I blame the people who did the attacking.

I like your personal attack though. I bet when I attack back you and the gang will call the mods on me and
Pretend that I am the one dishing out all the venom

I bet this post will be removed as the lot of you work to
Censor me by using the moderation system.

Straight question then.

Is Obama as culpable as Bush was?

Yes or no.

Yes, for embassy attacks, yes. They cannot control the actions of foreigners in another country.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by cholo

 

I'm sorry, I don't speak in Palin talk (what does leader from behind mean anyways?)

Sorry don't speak political trolling.

Did you expect Obama to get on a helicopter with seal team???

No I expect him to sit in a bunker, and watch it on TV like someone playing COD4.

So you are essentially admitting that your points have no point