Animal cognition - do we underestimate our furry friends?

reply to post by Mads1987

We had a dog that would chase cars and even had a minor incident where it (minorly) bit someone (no charges pressed). So it could be dumb (or untrained?)!!! But there were times when I was alone with him that he'd show remarkable awareness. Like the time he pushed the empty food bowl over to me to tell me he wanted food. He formed a common language doing that! Somehow he knew that he couldn't bark to say he wanted food. Neither could he go over to the food bowl because I wasn't there to see it. He (maybe?) figured out he needed to physically move the bowl over to me. To some people this ain't impressive, but I've not seen another dog do it. I also trained him to sit and it worked good. Sometimes I'd imitate him and I'd get the queerest look on his face. He'd tilt his head and make a noise. It LOOKED like he was asking a question or saying "What's wrong with you?"

Why can't they design an experiment to get a monkey to ask a What is? question? Like a situation where symbols unlock food and there's limited chances to unlock it. The monkeys are trained to know some of the symbols, but not all. They're trained to know that one of the experimenters knows the symbols. If they find a symbol they do not know, they should get the attention of the experimenter. Isn't this like them asking "What's this symbol??? We really want the food, please help!"

Does a monkey necessarily have to SAY "Who's that?????" when a new monkey enters the cage? Don't they just know that it's a new monkey and so they all cautiously watch?? Obviously, monkeys will know when a new monkey enters their cage, but they don't actually say it in speech.

I think that we'd have to witness language in another species to really get at the root of this. We have to ask WHY most other animals have not created complex language. Of course, some animals are more social than others. Dogs, for example, are more social than cats. Ants are eusocial.

And then there's this (fast forward to 12:23 18:24 and watch):

Mathematically, language can be seen in animals even though we can't translate it. What he's basically showing is that the mathematical relationship between words and their frequency can be seen across animals species. So far, he's only looked at human and dolphin speech. Both show the same ratio between word and word frequency. This means there's linguistic meaning being communicated. This doesn't mean dolphinese is as complex as human language, though. I think the dividing line between them occurs with Shannon Entropy. Human language reaches the ninth order but dolphinese reaches only the 4th order. Since I am not a student of information theory or linguistic topics, it's hard for me to explain it. (I got the information about Shannon Entropy on a website)

See here:
www.peterrussell.com - Look who's talking...

reply to post by jonnywhite



When you separate social animals from their pack/den/whatever you want to call it, upon their return they will often be accosted by their mates. With wolves and lions there is a lot of sniffing. In chimps, they have their own inspection ritual. Meerkats....the same.

Is this a question? "Where have you been?" "What have you been doing?" "Who have you been around?"

It would seem that if we want to look for questions, those questions will be posed using their own communication style.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered

Humans are a form of leech only larger .

Dinosaurs were violent and aggressive as humans are and didnt last .

edit on 16-5-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)

Oh yea, I forgot about dinosaurs advanced medicine and cognitive abilities!! /sarcasm

Violence spreads wayy farther than humans and dinosaurs... Even your beloved "animals" are violent.

I do agree dinosaurs didn't tap into fossil fuels, but even the loss of those won't wipe humanity off the face of the earth like your dinosaur metaphor.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by jonnywhite

 

When you separate social animals from their pack/den/whatever you want to call it, upon their return they will often be accosted by their mates. With wolves and lions there is a lot of sniffing. In chimps, they have their own inspection ritual. Meerkats....the same.

Is this a question? "Where have you been?" "What have you been doing?" "Who have you been around?"

It would seem that if we want to look for questions, those questions will be posed using their own communication style.

I like where you're going with that thought. Instead of thinking in a literal mindset, you reached outside the box.

Thanks for the intriguing thought!