The narrow path

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Akragon

 

He said that he was the truth, the way (path), and the life. When he said that his yoke was easy he meant that the path he was showing was easy, only if you try.

To have enemies is to have hate. I do not consider anyone my enemy. If they are an enemy to anyone, it is to themselves and not me. If you love an enemy then they are no longer an enemy, but a brother who is misguided.

edit on 16-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

The way is how he lived his life... which may have been easy to him... but that isn't the same as the yoke he spoke of....

A yoke is something that's hung around the neck... it can be interpreted as guilt... There is very little burden on a person that loves everyone... IF one loves everyone there would be little to no guilt for one can not do wrong to someone they love...

Though like I said, loving everyone is not an easy task...

I have no enemies either... but that doesn't mean I don't rub some people the wrong way...

In real life unlike a forum, there are few people that are on the fence about me... they love me or they hate me... rarely in between those extremes.

You can make an enemy just by looking at someone the wrong way in this life... its all in how you deal with that person...

reply to post by AfterInfinity

This is why I promote spiritual independence

I knew this was a very difficult subject. I waded in anyway. Maybe difficult subjects are the ones worth discussing.

By all means, promote spiritual independence! In my experience spiritual independence is an aspiration much more than a starting point. Take Paul for instance:

Venerating the Judaic deity is synonymous with despising everything that we are.

So Paul never completely broke away from that deity. That's sad. I think he really did want to. He didn't gain the independence he sought IMHO, that's why I can't fully endorse Paul. There isn't much I can learn from him except as an example of a struggling Christian in the midst of spiritual influences that he couldn't merely wish away.

because I believe in the possibilities of not demonizing that which makes us weak - because I believe it's our flaws that make us strong, especially when we're not fighting the very things that make us who and what we are.

And that is where you sound exactly like Paul, whether you can accept that or not.

reply to post by jmdewey60


And you have not been brainwashed into believing Jesus rose from the dead and died for your sins? Puhlease! You're confusing Paul's teachings with those of Jesus. Jesus taught work not faith, Paul taught faith not works. Two totally different and opposite concepts.

And no, I do not believe in the once-saved always-saved concept because anyone can stray from the path at any time, but those who watch where they are going know how not to stray from it.

reply to post by Akragon


If yoke is guilt, and those who love everyone have no guilt, then why did Jesus call the guilt his own when he loved everyone equally?

Loving everyone is as simple as doing it, there is nothing hard about loving everyone, not at all. Looking at someone the wrong way and them labeling you as an enemy does not mean you consider them an enemy.

When Jesus said to love your enemies, he meant for us not to consider anyone an enemy because loving an enemy means they are no longer your enemy but your neighbor and brother.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If yoke is guilt, and those who love everyone have no guilt, then why did Jesus call the guilt his own when he loved everyone equally?

He said his burden is light... not absent... or non existent...

Lets look at that passage...

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

That rest is knowing life exists beyond this incarnation... Death isn't the end of the line... In knowing this ones soul can be at peace, for there is no fear of death...

He said "take my yoke upon you"... Meaning do as I have done... Love all... even IF they don't love you... And even though you might love everyone... Not everyone will love you...

I personally don't see how anyone couldn't love Jesus... but look what happened to him... he was hated by many, but he still loved them regardless... which can be shown by his words on the cross...

Forgive them Father for they know not what they do...

Loving everyone is as simple as doing it, there is nothing hard about loving everyone, not at all.

heh... fair enough

Are there any biker bars in your area? Why don't you try going into such a place and proclaim that you love everyone there... see what happens

Looking at someone the wrong way and them labeling you as an enemy has nothing to do with you considering them an enemy.

you misunderstood what I said... It doesn't matter if you love everyone... Not everyone will love you, regardless of how much love you might have for them.

For example... myself... IF per chance I found myself being at odds with someone... and I tried my best to solve the matter peacefully... yet this person decided to slug me just for fun...

In that situation where you did nothing wrong... could you turn the other cheek?

Myself... I would have serious problems with doing that... as a matter of fact I garentee there would be a fight...

Though I might be wrong... its been many years since I've been in such a situation... things might have changed within me....

I know im not perfect... but I try

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Jesus taught work not faith, Paul taught faith not works. Two totally different and opposite concepts.

That is part of your your brainwashing from the false prophets of the "Free Grace" cult.
They tell you that Faith according to Paul was just some kind of intellectual acquiescence to our sinfulness and how Jesus has to "pay" for our sins, and it is made so by our believing.
"Works" was a bad name for Paul and meant the showy things that the Jews did to just look righteous.
Paul created a term, Faith, in his writings to mean works, but not by that name, meaning they are the works of righteousness that come from believing in Jesus, and the gift of the Holy Spirit, as opposed by a pseudo type of righteousness that comes from following the old written Mosaic Law. What role The Law had in the old covenant, Faith has in the new covenant.

reply to post by Akragon


Meaning the burden of the path that he showed us was light (literally and figuratively). What is his yoke if not the path that he showed us? It can't be guilt because he loved everyone equally and did no wrong to anyone, meaning he had nothing to feel guilty about. So what is this yoke that he's talking about?

I don't see how your biker bar analogy fits in here. If those bikers don't like my message then that is on them, not me.

I'm a lover not a fighter, so I would not hit him back personally. If he hits me that is on his conscience not mine.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Didn't I JUST say that works are what matter and not faith? Jesus taught that works save, hence "love your neighbor as yourself", Paul taught of free grace and you accepting that means you are part of his cult, not me.

So you agree that Paul created his own doctrine by creating the term faith? Thank you for proving my point.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

And you have not been brainwashed into believing Jesus rose from the dead and died for your sins?

As far as I know, nobody has endorsed brainwashing as a wonderful thing in this thread. Some people (and not only Christians) have reasons to believe Jesus lives.

Even brainwashing into believing the contradictory stories at the ends of the gospels are somehow straight history, does not negate that people have, in one way or another, seen Jesus.

I think reports of seeing Jesus preceded by many years, the crude depictions of bodily resurrection written in the canonical gospels.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Meaning the burden of the path that he showed us was light (literally and figuratively). What is his yoke if not the path that he showed us? It can't be guilt because he loved everyone equally and did no wrong to anyone, meaning he had nothing to feel guilty about. So what is this yoke that he's talking about?

Do you believe he was speaking of himself or his followers? Was he asking himself to take on his own "yoke"?

He was clearly not talking about himself... Again, the yoke is what is hung around ones neck...

Like here...

6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

But why is it so bad to offend "these little ones"... well he said specifically their angels face my Father in heaven

10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven

It could even be seen as Karma if you prefer not to use guilt... but guilt creates Karma so its all stemming from the same seed.

I don't see how your biker bar analogy fits in here. If those bikers don't like my message then that is on them, not me.

SO if you went in to that place proclaiming your message... and they beat your ass for being a pussy... and tossed you out of there on your face... You'd still be thinking you love those people?

I'm a lover not a fighter, so I would not hit him back personally. If he hits me that is on his conscience not mine.

Well I am a lover and a fighter, though my fighting days are far behind me...

perhaps you are a far better person then I...

reply to post by pthena


Nor have I endorsed it.

I see Jesus everyday because we are the same. The light he was speaking of is in all of us, even though most don't realize it. My light (vision) is the same as his light.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


No one makes you choose what you choose. Knowing the mouse will find the cheese in advance does not mean the mouse does not have free will. We are the mice, the decision we make is the cheese set out in front of us. Some of it is good for food, some is not. Crave only the cheese that nourishes the spirit of love.

reply to post by sacgamer25


What happens when a cat is in the way of the cheese...

Meow!

reply to post by Akragon


Even the cat was placed there by God, so I imagine his will is still done.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by Akragon

 

Even the cat was placed there by God, so I imagine his will is still done.

Bah... You're no fun...

pulling the trump card eh...

reply to post by Akragon

In that situation where you did nothing wrong... could you turn the other cheek?

Myself... I would have serious problems with doing that... as a matter of fact I garentee there would be a fight...

Though I might be wrong... its been many years since I've been in such a situation... things might have changed within me....

That reminds me. of what was maybe my last physical confrontation, many years ago.

I was playing the bored routine, pose and expression like: "Oh come on, please find something else to amuse yourself with"

He just couldn't leave me alone. Once he got to the point of saying, "You know what? One of these days someone is just going to put a gun up to your head and blow you away. And you'll be totally clueless."

I don't think he would have said that if he'd known I had a revolver in my waistband (legally, CCP). I so felt like pulling it out, putting it to his head and saying, "Is this what you're talking about?"

I didn't do it though. The guy had a history. He used to live with (as in total mooch) the lady next door. He beat her up once, and when she threw him out, he called the cops on her for domestic violence. She went to jail bleeding.

I really didn't want to end up in jail for assault with a deadly weapon. My rule on concealed weapons is: Nobody will know I have it until after I've used it. So I turned the other cheek.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Didn't I JUST say that works are what matter and not faith? Jesus taught that works save, hence "love your neighbor as yourself", Paul taught of free grace and you accepting that means you are part of his cult, not me.

So you agree that Paul created his own doctrine by creating the term faith? Thank you for proving my point.

No Paul believed that Jesus was the Holy Spirit, and worshiped him as such. This is the only way to reconcile Paul, Christ and the OT.

reply to post by Akragon


He was speaking of his yoke and his burden, hence him calling them his. What are his yoke and and burden if not the path that he showed us? The path that he set us on is based on karma in my opinion, which is why he said to love others as yourself.

Yes I would. Like I said, the ass beating would be on their conscience, not mine. I don't turn away from loving someone just because they do not love me. I see that the issues in this world are based around hate and division, so I try to be the antithesis of that which is love.

The only reason to fight back would be if someone is threatening your life, and I have a hard time believing that they would try to kill me (or even fight me for that matter) because I said I loved them. That whole scenario doesn't really make sense in my opinion.

reply to post by sacgamer25


So why condemn the mouse if he finds the cheese that you knew he would eat? Why would god give us free will only to punish us for using it?

reply to post by pthena


So as I've said, its all in how you handle the situation...

IF you actually did what you were "tempted" to do... more then likely he would have held a grudge for scaring him half to death... That kind of fear is a huge dig to Karma... He probably would have came after you... and IF he had a history of Violence... it might not have ended good.

Theres been a few people in my city I've had to... Put in their place so to speak... and even years later when I see these people there is still a heart felt feeling of regret... and a threatening feeling that follows it... dread perhaps... Though IF these people knew me now it could be easily solved... Yet somehow I feel like they wouldn't bother trying to know who I am now... they would likely only remember what I was...