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The narrow path

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posted on May, 20 2013 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Yet I have dropped any and every teaching they ever taught me. It's easy to pass logic off as a cult isn't it. That's your free ticket to thinking you are right, and it works every time! How convenient.

Did Paul worship a different god than Jesus? Because Paul says that there is one God, the Father of Jesus, whom Jesus says was the god of the living and NOT the dead.


1 Corinthians 8
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.


So Paul calls god the "Father", Jesus says he and the Father are one, and Jesus says God is of the living and not the dead. Paul says that the lord (Jesus, who is one with god) is of the living and the dead.

You are delusional if you don't see that. DE-LU-SIO-NAL.

You refuse to see the contradiction because you are suffering from DELUSION.




posted on May, 20 2013 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 

It is 100% universally accepted that Paul wrote Thessalonians, where the strong delusion is mentioned.
No, it is not, and what would make you think that is true?
There are two so-called books or letters to the Thessalonians.
You are thinking of the second one, the one that contradicts the first one and says do not believe any letters supposedly written by me because it is a forgery.
Well, that is a trick that forgers used back then, to make you think that they are the real person they are claiming to be and watch out for the others who are the fakes.



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 12:42 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


This will be my last reply to you. You are wasting my time and I have a feeling you are just trolling right now. I hope so because you have shown just how backwards your mindset is in the last page or so. I hope you wake up to the delusion because it is VERY strong in you.

You say that Paul doesn't support the OT yet ignore all the times he quotes it to support his arguments. Deluded delusion. Wake up, you are only hurting yourself. Goodbye.



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 

Yet I have dropped any and every teaching they ever taught me. It's easy to pass logic off as a cult isn't it.
I'm just saying that there are cults and we have a representation here on this forum of members of such cults, that tell you that Jesus was actually the Old Testament God, and the Father is just what he returns to while not "clothed" in humanity.
I suspect that is where you get your ideas from.
I don't think it is possible for someone to eradicate ways of thinking that you were taught at a young age, even though you tell yourself that you don't believe in them any more.
That you ever did believe in them at all makes these things impossible to ever get completely rid of.
edit on 20-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

This is getting a little ridiculous. Are you so bent upon discrediting Christians that you end up discrediting Jesus even while you maintain that you love Jesus?

Have you defined the difference between destruction and life?
If reincarnation is life, and we are all in it, then isn't that the broad path? Then reincarnation = destruction. That is, if you believe the words of Jesus from the OP

The eastern religions teach that the goal is to break out of the reincarnation cycle, into annihilation. Is that life or is it destruction?

Which is life? Reincarnation or Annihilation?

What did Jesus reportedly say?

John 5: 24 “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. 25 Most certainly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is, when the dead will hear the Son of God’s voice; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, even so he gave to the Son also to have life in himself. 27 He also gave him authority to execute judgment, because he is a son of man. 28 Don’t marvel at this, for the hour comes, in which all that are in the tombs will hear his voice, 29 and will come out; those who have done good, to the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment. 30 I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous; because I don’t seek my own will, but the will of my Father who sent me.


What? The dead will hear? That's what Jesus said. Do you believe him?

Do you believe Jesus is in the reincarnation cycle? Or does he have life in himself?

So please tell us, since this is your thread: what is life? What is destruction?



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by pthena
 


I don't discredit Jesus, I was making a point that jmdewey was discrediting Jesus by saying he was the god of the dead when Jesus clearly said otherwise.

Not everyone finds the path of life, but that doesn't mean they don't have it within them. If you believe this life/mind will continue after death into eternal heaven where you remember everything from this life then you will be disappointed. To find life is to realize that this isn't the first one you have lived and will not be the last.

Destruction is the path that the Earth is on, life is love and realization of who we truly are and where we are going after we "die". Do you experience death? No, so it is only an Illusion. The dead rising is them rising to life in their next incarnation, and everyone rises to new life but most do not "find" it. That is what Jesus meant by the resurrection, not the one that Paul purports.



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 01:16 AM
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reply to post by pthena
 

. . . because he is a son of man . . .

I think there is a problem when people read John, that they don't see it as offering proofs, but take what are "proofs" as being lectures on esoteric 'truths'.
That is my opinion.
John takes what was generally accepted as being true when he was writing, and then directs it at Jesus by using the literary device of having Jesus giving these speeches on the issues of the day and saying that the answer is the person who you are listening to right now.
edit on 20-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60


literary device of having Jesus giving these speeches on the issues of the day and saying that the answer is the person who you are listening to right now.

Please clarify. It sounds like:

The author put speeches in the mouth of Jesus in order to prove that the author was authorized to write it.

Then of what use to us today is the piece of literature?



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by pthena
 

Then of what use to us today is the piece of literature?

Not the author, but proofs that Jesus is the sole agent of God on earth.
If people think there will be this one day when all the dead are brought up for judgment, then John say, OK, and the one doing all that is Jesus, since he is that Son of Man people already have an idea is involved in all of that, as the person God has planned to do it.
So the "value" can maybe be gauged by your puzzlement, so the answer would be: not very much.
When it was written, it would, since the synoptics has Jesus playing coy.
John comes right out and says, hello, here he is and while he was too humble to say so, I am not so reticent to glorify him.



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 02:00 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


If you believe this life/mind will continue after death into eternal heaven where you remember everything from this life then you will be disappointed.

This seems obvious to me. But I've read quite a bit of NewAge stuff that seems just as much a set up for disappointment.


The dead rising is them rising to life in their next incarnation, and everyone rises to new life but most do not "find" it.

Do you mean that "finding life" is just a realization of the natural order, and go from there (the realization) on to love for others, which seems the only place to go from there?

What about the gods? Do they exist outside of the cycle or in the cycle? Do they exist as individual immortal beings, or do they not exist as individuals, but rather as just the one God? Is Jesus an individual eternal being?



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 02:16 AM
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reply to post by pthena
 


We're all eternal beings and life itself is god. The universe and everything in it, including us, is god, as a whole. We are the conscious part of god and we are god experiencing it/himself. We are already in heaven and life itself will continue to exist forever which means so will we, because we are life.

There are three main aspects to god, the male side or "Father" which is consciousness, the female side or "Mother" which is the material world, and the "Son" which is where the two become one and make us, or life itself.

I personally believe the true Trinity is the Father, Mother, and Son. We are three made into One.
edit on 20-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 02:27 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60


here he is and while he was too humble to say so, I am not so reticent to glorify him.

Then the author is announcing Jesus as the son of man that was expected. And never is he put into the position of son of David. Hence, that is not relevant.

So by announcing that the World has been overcome, then forget about holy crusades to annihilate Amalek. Those "eternal Torah rules" are not so eternal after all.

So can this break the Messianic framework of Matthew and Luke, and Paul and Hebrews?



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 03:07 AM
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reply to post by pthena
 

So can this break the Messianic framework of Matthew and Luke, and Paul and Hebrews?
Maybe.
I have this big fat book that I got way back in August, Theology of the New Testament, by Rudolf Bultmann.
What I have read is pretty amazing stuff, and I think that if it is there, the right way of looking at it, it would be in there.
Now this may seem really stupid but up 'till now, it was only available in German, so even though it is relatively old stuff, it is still new to the general English speaking world.
I have a copy of his commentary on the John letters and I think it is better than the newer ones.
The point being, I keep getting distracted into a lot of directions and I need to focus a bit on that issue.
What I mean is that it seems like a very important subject to you,so I have to think so too.
I think it may be crucial in how things are playing out, like you said, this salafism and Zionism and messianism into this one great evil God.



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by pthena
 

Then the author is announcing Jesus as the son of man that was expected.
Let we quote the beginning of a paragraph from the book that I mentioned in my last post,

Basically, therefore, he in his own person is the "sign of the time". Yet the historical Jesus of the synoptics does not, like the Johannine Jesus, summon men to acknowledge or "believe in" his person. He does not proclaim himself Messiah, i.e. the king of the time of salvation, but he points ahead to the Son of Man as another than himself.
That's on page 9, and something I read fairly recently and the memory of may have been what spurred my earlier comment, that I need to read further than his introduction and see how he develops those ideas, further in the book.
What I have in hand is a 2007 copyrighted version of a book that was originally copyrighted in 1951. I did not notice it showing up in Amazon web site searches until about a year ago. The point is like I said earlier, it may have been out there but not readily available until recently, as far as I know.
edit on 20-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60


I keep getting distracted into a lot of directions and I need to focus a bit on that issue.

Look at my signature


Bultman introduced the word kerygma into Theological discource. Basically, think of it as "quest for the message of the historical Jesus" as opposed to "Quest for the historical Jesus"

You might think of Bultman as the one who asked the important question. Once the question is out there, the answers branch out from the work of many seekers.

If you remember the answer I came up with was, "God cares about people, not religion."

I think an important element in that is: "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God." Therefore, I have no problem with Saint Paul, because those who take the time and energy to know what he was doing, why he was doing it, and the conditions in which he was doing it, will see him in a much better light.


I think it may be crucial in how things are playing out, like you said, this salafism and Zionism and messianism into this one great evil God.

And Saint Paul is the "low hanging fruit" so to speak, because the propagandists have free reign in the playground of the lazy uninformed.

Read the reconstruction of ANTITHESIS.

I suggested to Dionysus once that he was the Stranger, and he indicated in not so many words, that he is not The Stranger.

Which brings up another point that the propagandists pick on as low hanging fruit.
"Christianity has pagan elements", they say, "You must go back to pure Judaic worldview to be a true Christian"

"Hogwash!" says I, "The World that God loves has Pagan elements!"

What the Gospel of John does, is present Jesus as the Son of Man, a position that is so much more exalted as to make any mere son of David pale into insignificance. Jesus does not exist because of David. Jesus exists regardless of a David.

The root of destructive Messianic ambition is not in the New Testament. It is in the Old Testament post-exile writings. That's what must have the axe laid to, as John said. Lazy people mess with the fruit.

Jesus is not the Messiah. He is way better than the Messiah.
edit on 20-5-2013 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


There are three main aspects to god, the male side or "Father" which is consciousness, the female side or "Mother" which is the material world, and the "Son" which is where the two become one and make us, or life itself.

It looks like you edited this post since last I looked at it.


I was afraid I'd have to tell the story of my quest for Atheism.

Of how I used to pray to my gods to let me be an Atheist,
and they would reply, "That's up to you."

And so I set out on my quest,
to reach the high and lofty peak.

I found Pantheism and was glad,
I could make the great synthesis,
Monotheist and Atheist
at the same time.

But gazing upon the stark god,
I detected, faintly, barely,
There's something else beside
that one.

Hidden in, around, behind,
there's something or someone
behind the only one.

The all inclusive one and only
is not alone.

Perhaps, just perhaps,
the one god exists because of
and within
The One God.

And so I keep my gods.
edit on 20-5-2013 by pthena because: (no reason given)

or maybe they keep me.

30) Jesus said, "Where there are three gods, they are gods.
Where there are two or one, I am with him."
Gospel of Thomas

edit on 20-5-2013 by pthena because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-5-2013 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Did you miss this one?


Romans 14
9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.


Didn't Jesus say god was of the living and NOT the dead? Why did Paul say this if he was writing through Jesus' spirit?

Am I taking this one out of context too? Because its pretty reasonable to say it stands on its own.
edit on 19-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


Just as Isaac, Jacob, and Abraham are still alive, so is anyone else who has ever lived. It's called reincarnation, and no one is an exception to that rule.
edit on 19-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


This is spiritual, like much of heaven/hell, death/life, light/darkness.

The living are the ones who have accepted the message and pursue love as directed. They have been filled with the living water that is the spirit of love, The Holy Spirit, Christ Jesus. Of Course Jesus is the lord of the one who believe, the living.

The dead are the ones still living apart from the life, in sin/darkness. Through his death and resurrection he became lord of both the living/believer and the dead/non believer.

Christ paid the price of death, so that all may be saved, especially believers/living.

1Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

God is father of all
God is love
To love is to find life
God is father of the living, the believers.

God is love, Jesus is the spirit of love. They are one, because Christ is a perfect reflection of God's love.

Although I agree there are two meanings, I believe in heaven, you believe in reincarnation.
edit on 20-5-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-5-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by pthena
 


We're all eternal beings and life itself is god. The universe and everything in it, including us, is god, as a whole. We are the conscious part of god and we are god experiencing it/himself. We are already in heaven and life itself will continue to exist forever which means so will we, because we are life.

There are three main aspects to god, the male side or "Father" which is consciousness, the female side or "Mother" which is the material world, and the "Son" which is where the two become one and make us, or life itself.

I personally believe the true Trinity is the Father, Mother, and Son. We are three made into One.
edit on 20-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


God is male and female, The Holy Spirit is the spirit of love, and the first born son is the spirit of love. Pursue the spirit of love, and you will find the son in you. - This is what the authors of the NT believed.

God is love, Jesus is the spirit of love. They are one, because Christ is a perfect reflection of God's love.
edit on 20-5-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 

Read the reconstruction of ANTITHESIS.
I like how that starts out,

-- From the Pseudo-Pauline Epistle I Timothy 6:20 (circa.150 C.E.).
as if the proto-orthodox created their own "Paul" just to be able to argue against Marcion's use of Paul.
If you look at the list of Books that Tertullian had, you notice they are all the pseudo-Paul.
edit on 20-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So are we. If we are physical and spiritual, then we are both male and female. Mother Earth (body) and Father consciousness (spirit).





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