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The narrow path

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posted on May, 19 2013 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


I wasn't aware that Paul ever met Jesus before his death. That's a mighty big assumption to think Jesus was talking about Paul when he said that, especially when you factor in what Paul was supposedly doing during that time or after.


They met after his death and Saul/Paul had one of the most unique and humbling conversions of any first century Christians. He did the most dramatic 180 in bible history from a rabid persecutor to loyal supporter that endured much abuse. Paul had a strong zeal for God be it in error or accurately informed. Jesus saw his heart and potential and personally intervened to set matters straight. He was talking about all those in the first century that supported his commands to spread the gospel, but especially the bible writers and Apostles, and this includes Paul.




posted on May, 19 2013 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 



because Paul was one of Jesus "brothers" he talked about in Matthew 25.


LOL what?!?



Matthew 25:45


45 “He will answer them, ‘I can guarantee this truth: Whatever you failed to do for one of my brothers or sisters, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you failed to do for me.’


This statement applied to current and future Christians, but not all Christians would be classified as Jesus "brothers".



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


Yes, cause only a believing Christian would be a brother of Jesus. I got that out of the Koran. "Christians must become believing Christians."



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 



because Paul was one of Jesus "brothers" he talked about in Matthew 25.


LOL what?!?



Matthew 25:45


45 “He will answer them, ‘I can guarantee this truth: Whatever you failed to do for one of my brothers or sisters, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you failed to do for me.’


This statement applied to current and future Christians, but not all Christians would be classified as Jesus "brothers".


Right... and at the time he said this Saul was busy killing Christians... Perhaps not directly but he caused their deaths if they were killed... and its not actually known if he did or did not personally kill or participate in said killings...

Jesus might have preached forgiveness... but I highly doubt he personally recruited him as his speaker "several years" after his death...


edit on 19-5-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


The ransom covers all sins, even murder, if the person is truly remorseful and sorry. If Saul did kill or orchestrate there deaths, he was very sorry for it later on.
Remember Jesus words "Forgive them Father, they do not know what they do".
That thought was extended to Paul without doubt.



edit on 19-5-2013 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by Akragon
 


The ransom covers all sins, even murder, if the person is truly remorseful and sorry. If Saul did kill or orchestrate there deaths, he was very sorry for it later on.
Remember Jesus words "Forgive them Father, they do not know what they do".
That thought was extended to Paul without doubt.



edit on 19-5-2013 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)


Perhaps that may be true...

Though I still see no reason why Jesus would pick him of all people... and no reason to believe he did...

Pauls doctrine was is entirely different then what Jesus taught...


edit on 19-5-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by sacgamer25


I dont agree with pastors or churches the way they are run. I believe they are men who turned stones into bread.

I had to read that many times to understand it. I get it now


Thus they will never fully understand the gospel.
. . .
The pastor is paid to perform a job, thus he cannot be considered a servant. He has taken a seat alongside the Levites. He has not become a disciple of Christ.

But seriously. Individual pastors are individual people. And, individual congregations of Christians are individual congregations of Christians.

As a congregation member I paid pastors to be servants. This was not a bad thing. By being relieved of the duties of 9 to 5 world, he was enabled to visit the sick, perform weddings, funerals, and other necessary things that unpaid elders (such as myself) couldn't get time off of work to do. A servant does not become a non servant, by being paid.

As for not fully understanding the gospel, who does? The pastor seemed as able to grasp the gospel as any of the elders. Being a pastor did not disqualify him at all.


I know that's what you think is right. But listen to the message at church. The message at almost every church of every religion contains the same fundamental flaw. If the church was being run by people without this flaw then maybe we would not continue to be told that we have it.

The pastors of the church, everyone who wants to be a disciple of Christ goes through the trials that Christ was presented in the desert. Well they only get as far as they fail. Which is why every Pastor is a Pastor. Because anyone who passes the first test would be presented by the second. And clearly they have not.


Mathew 4:1-11
Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.”

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’”

7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’[d]”
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.”
11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him'


I am not sure you will understand this next part but I will attempt to explain something. The message at every church is you are sinner, so believe in this religion and you will be saved. The one who turns stones into bread is indeed exactly what he tells his congregation that they are. He is a sinner, and he believes we are all sinners, because he who believes he was called also believes he is a sinner.

I do not believe I'm a sinner, nor does Christ Jesus. Christ said I am a son of God and that the simple fact that I am a son, means that I am also a God. The basic definition of a God is merely an immortal. I am an immortal, as promised by Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

You are also a son of God, therefore you are also immortal. Your spirit is an immortal being, created by God.

As immortal son's of God we were not created to be sinners, we were created to overcome sin.


Genesis 4:6-7 6 Then the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”


This is God talking to Cain, after the supposed "Original sin". Notice he does not tell Cain I am sorry Adam and Eve failed but now you have no choice but to sin. No instead he tells Cain that he must learn to rule over his sin, and not let it take him. If this was not possible than God is a liar.


John 8:34, 36 Whosoever 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.


The pastor plainly tells you, without hesitation, that he is a sinner. Then he tells you, you are a sinner. Then you believe him, because he is a man in a higher place in the kingdom of God than you. So because he has studied the word and he is paid to teach it, you assume he has knowledge and understanding. When the true knowledge and understanding can only come from within.

The message of Christ is we are to overcome sin, but the church teaches this is impossible. If the pastors were truly disciples of Christ, they would not see this as impossible but rather they would see it as the challenge. To love one another so perfectly that sin no longer has hold of us. The pastor simply cannot teach a message that frees one from sin, because they are not free themselves.

You don't know me but I make the claim and so do my children that we have complete control over every decision that we make. We may make a mistake but we are not sinners. We are God's children who work to overcome all sin each day. When anger arises, we point it out, let it go and discus where it came from and how to keep away better next time. When any emotion arises that is not love, this is what we do. We overcome our sin, because we are not sinners. We are Disciples of Christ and pursue the desires of the Spirit of love that brings Joy into our lives.

The next two tests are one's that make even less since from a worldly view. The bible says God is love. This is true and where the second test comes in. Now that you know that everything is permissible because God loves you unconditionally, throw yourself back into sin. Surely God's angles will catch you because God loves you unconditionally. But Jesus says don't test your God like that, and Hebrews also makes mention that to fail this test would lead to the destruction of the man. Anyone who knows the truth but continue to sin, is the one who is really lost.

The final test is to rule the world. Once you have received from God the wisdom to understand love, you become quite powerful. The power could be used for personal gain or it could be used for spiritual gain. This is a very fine line. Christ was the most powerful man ever to walk the earth, he could have ruled it, they were ready to anoint him king. But instead he followed the will of the father.

If a man arises to power only teaching love and it is clear that power is not what he was seeking, then you will know that the end is near. Only the end is really just the beginning.

These things are prophesied about in the bible.



2Peter 3:14-18 14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.





Mathew 24:23 23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.


The church teaches we are sinners, Christ taught we were to pursue love as a way to overcome sin. All will be deceived, even the elect, if that is possible. We are not sinners, it is time we stand up and tell the church that they are wrong. That we are sons of God who will pursue love as a means to overcome our sin.

edit on 19-5-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-5-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


So Why would Jesus say that bad trees can't bear good fruit then go on to pick a bad tree to bear good fruit? Paul's doctrine completely and utterly contradicts Jesus' messages in almost every single way. Paul could have said anything, that doesn't mean they were true.

Who else saw Jesus talking to Paul? Oh yeah, just Paul, so you're taking an accomplice to murder's word. Not a very smart thing to do in my opinion.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by tetra50


This last being one of the most important perceived issues, for the temple became a place of buying, selling and consumption, and was why Jesus destroyed it. Feeding anyone with those sacrifices nullified them. The sacrifice was not about consumption.

It's been a while since I've studied the sacrifices. I'm not quite sure which were to be eaten by whom. The daily fellowship or peace offering which was to attract the god's attention and keep him close was completely burned
Leviticus 6 and 7 lists various offerings, some eaten by priests only, some shared between the god and the priest, Some to be eaten by any male Levite

Jesus didn't destroy the temple. He suggested that if it were torn down then he could raise it up in three days. The Christian note on that is that he was speaking of his rising from the dead.

As for consumption: The Passover meal was eaten by all, if I'm not mistaken. Christians have usually associated Jesus with Passover. After reading Leviticus 6, I'm beginning to wonder if that is wise or not.


I personally believe this is one of the most "changed," perhaps as early as the council of Nicea, parts of the Bible. Or perhaps the two testaments are testaments, actually, to different Gods, entirely.


Here's the verse I'm looking at.

Leviticus 6:19 Yahweh spoke to Moses, saying, 20 “This is the offering of Aaron and of his sons, which they shall offer to Yahweh in the day when he is anointed: the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a meal offering perpetually, half of it in the morning, and half of it in the evening. 21 It shall be made with oil in a griddle. When it is soaked, you shall bring it in. You shall offer the meal offering in baked pieces for a pleasant aroma to Yahweh. 22 The anointed priest that will be in his place from among his sons shall offer it. By a statute forever, it shall be wholly burnt to Yahweh. 23 Every meal offering of a priest shall be wholly burned. It shall not be eaten.”
- WEB

That's the World English Translation. The NIV has "present the grain offering broken in pieces as an aroma"

If Jesus had in mind this anointing to priesthood ceremony, when he broke the bread, and said "this is my body, all of you eat it" this is a serious breech and break from the Yahweh prescribed ceremony.

If that is the case then Yahweh would not be pleased with this ceremony at all, but rather quite offended. Perhaps the New Covenant does, as you suggest, refer to a God not the same as Yahweh.

Good question. Thank you. I must consider this further. Perhaps Christians should also.

Follow up questions:
1) Is eating the bread and drinking the cup pleasing to Yahweh or offensive to Yahweh?
2) Should a choice be made to either serve Yahweh or serve Jesus and his God ?

edit on 19-5-2013 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 


Might I suggest you take this into consideration on your search?

Do you recall Matthew 22 where some Pharisees tried to "entangle him in his talk"?

And he shocked everyone who was listening? This might be one of the lines that got him executed, but its clear what he was saying....

Here was his answer... I'll let you read the Conversation yourself...

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.





posted on May, 19 2013 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Weird that the god of the "living" would require the "death" of his son to forgive everyone, isn't it? Not sure if that was your point, but that stuck out to me personally.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I'd say that Jesus' followers were Jewish BEFORE they started following Jesus.

I don't think it matters. Galilee had a large Syrian/Phoenician demographic. So some of the followers of Jesus, could very well have been people who the Jews would consider Gentiles. Jesus is called a Galilean in many places.


Jesus did point out flaws within the Jewish law on several occasions and even changed them

Yes. That seems to be the case.

Jesus was not a Jew, otherwise he wouldn't have corrected the law.

Again. It doesn't matter to me. Christians have adopted the notion that Jesus must not only be of the tribe of Judah, but also the son of David. That's only necessary for them to maintain a semblance of Messiahism, which they consider to be the definition of Christianity. They may want to reconciler.

As long as they think of Jesus as useless unless he is physically descended from David, then they are actually serving the Old Testament more than they serve Jesus. This is why I don't think that I can follow Paul. He did make that requirement. Christians should get past Paul. He serves as a hindrance.

But, that hindrance is not Paul's fault, it is rather the fault of those who consider him to be the final revelation that can't be passed by. He not only can be gotten past in people's understanding but he should be gotten past.
edit on 19-5-2013 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Akragon
 


Weird that the god of the "living" would require the "death" of his son to forgive everyone, isn't it? Not sure if that was your point, but that stuck out to me personally.


that is Christian dogma... God didn't want him to die... Though perhaps the "God of this world" did...

God only knew when he was sent that he would be killed... and I personally believe Jesus came by his own "free will"... knowing full well he would be executed... yet also knowing that many will learn from his life...

My point is... there IS a God of this world... He/she/it, whatever it is... is NOT the Father of Jesus..

And IT is NOT on our side...

Jesus knew it, even Paul knew it... I think the Gnostics were exterminated because they knew it, and weren't afraid to let others know of it...

I would also assume that there were many more Gnostic writings that were destroyed because of it as well... Marcion comes to mind... He wrote Antithesis apparently... Even though what we have is a reconstruction, and completely unreliable because its reconstruction can only be accomplished with the use of people that were against him...

gnosis.org...



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 



But, that hindrance is not Paul's fault, it is rather the fault of those who consider him to be the final revelation that can't be passed by. He not only can be gotten past in people's understanding but he should be gotten past.


Im not sure I agree with that... I seem to think Paul was looking for a following... and he used the name of Jesus to gain exactly that... IF he had known Jesus, even if it was in a vision... one must assume he would have taught something from his lessons...

Even in his writing he uses the phrase... "I became all things to all men"... to me this says he would do anything, say anything for that following he so desired... and he got more then he wanted by gaining an entire religion

Yeh maybe he stopped killing Christians... but how would he convince everyone he had his revelation of the Son of God who preached nothing but peace and love... if he kept killing the ones who followed him?

Paul and his writing is useless compared to the gospels... I like his stance on love... but that's it


edit on 19-5-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Akragon
 


Weird that the god of the "living" would require the "death" of his son to forgive everyone, isn't it? Not sure if that was your point, but that stuck out to me personally.


The God of the living required his son to submit himself to the will of the father. If one has already been promised eternal life then one cannot spiritually die. Christ suffered physical death to show us the way to Spiritual salvation.

What Christ did in the physical we must do in the spiritual?

We must die to what we desire and only pursue love. We must sacrifice ourselves to more perfectly love one another. If we die to ourselves and allow the Spirit of love to be what controls us then we will be raised with him, in love, by the love of the father. Raised a changed man with the heart and desire to pursue love.

Born again is to eliminate oneself and allow Christ, the spirit of love, to live through you. Just as Christ eliminated himself by submitting to the cross, you can eliminate yourself by submitting to Christ. Christ died for your sins so you don't have to die. Accepting that God loves you and that physical death is no longer a curse for the one who sins, but rather life is promised to the one who obeys. Should we not die to all things that are against love? Then we truly could be raised with Christ and all would enter the kingdom of love.




Hebrews 10:1-10

The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.

7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’”

8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


God does not want burnt offerings and sacrifice. Those things don't take sin out of the world. Rather submit the body prepared for you to the spirit of love. Sacrifice yourself for the same reason Christ sacrificed himself. The only thing worth sacrificing oneself for. Sacrifice yourself in the name of love, so that the spirit of love may become one with your spirit. Then all will truly know, understand, and love Christ.

You can believe in a spiritual rebirth that is available in this lifetime and reincarnation. You do not have to give up in the religion of reincarnation to believe in the religion of the resurrected spirit.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So his teachings just weren't good enough? Why teach at all then? If all he had to do was die and rise from the dead then why go through all that trouble of walking around the countryside preaching about love only to turn around and die for our sins where no one had to love anyone?

All his supposed resurrection did was nullify his teachings and allow people to do whatever they wanted, as long as they "believed".



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So his teachings just weren't good enough? Why teach at all then? If all he had to do was die and rise from the dead then why go through all that trouble of walking around the countryside preaching about love only to turn around and die for our sins where no one had to love anyone?

All his supposed resurrection did was nullify his teachings and allow people to do whatever they wanted, as long as they "believed".


You don't have to love God to be loved by God. The only way to show your love for God is to love others. The only way to feel love from God is to love others.

You are so worried that I speak of some mystical path to salvation that you cannot see the simple message in my words.

You can continue to disagree with me but here is the fact. This is what the people who wrote the bible believed. Jesus Christ was the Holy Spirit, the spirit of love, incarnate in the man Jesus. Jesus claimed to be the light of this world. And although you understand neither Paul nor the OT, this is where you can find the truth.

I am here telling you 100% of the bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit, meaning quite literally only written by men who were filled with the spirit of Christ, therefore anything that they wrote, was written on behalf of the spirit. I find no contradictions; I see the lesson in everything. I believe that God is the author of all creation, good and bad. I believe that nothing has happened nor will anything ever happen that is against the will of the father.

I believe God is love, and although the test we face at times seems to suggest something else, everything is for the purpose of love.

I believe God is the spirit of life itself, and the spirit of life is love. I believe that God's first creation, his only begotten son, was the light of this world. The Holy Spirit, the spirit of love, Christ Jesus. I also believe that by and through the spirit of love all things were created for the purpose of love, both the bad and the good. Eastern philosophy teaches you Ying/Yang as necessary. Many believe that you must know evil to fully understand love.

Let me test this for you.

My daughter is sitting across from me. For no reason I start screaming at her and saying horrible things, the worst possible things that I can think of. She cries.

Then I politely tell her I knew you wouldn't understand love until I showed you Evil. Did she really learn more about love?

The answer should be obvious she learns love by the love I show her, and this is her natural spiritual state, the place where she finds peace. What you learn from evil is evil, nothing more. Do you still believe that I need to teach my daughter evil for her to understand and appreciate the love I have for her? If so then you would suggest that I scream at her like I proposed. After all I just want her to have the best understanding of love possible.

I believe God has a purpose for all things good and bad, the purpose is love. However; I still believe that for US to love is the only way to teach love. Pursue love and you will find love.

You can choose to believe whatever you would like, but the bible makes the claim that Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit. The Trinitarians actually agree but they are mistaken. Because Christ was created as stated in Geneses and by Christ himself when he calls himself a son. If he was a son and overcame all sin, and he calls us sons of the father and his brothers that means that we also should overcome. If we would allow ourselves to be guided by this love, we would find love, and our spirits find peace. Because love is our natural state of being.

Jesus Christ said the Holy Spirit would come in his name to anyone who believed in the spirit of love, sent to teach men how to love. For anyone who finds the spirit of love apart from the Gospels has also found Christ, simply because they choose to love. Christ comes to all who obey those that hear and even those that don't. Anyone can choose to obey the spirit of love in them and in doing so become one with the Holy Spirit, Christ Jesus.

His teachings are not hard to understand, but the claim that he was the Holy Spirit, and that God unconditionally loved all men were very hard to accept. It is only his resurrection that supported his claim. How easy it was to martyr oneself not just for love, but for the very spirit that is love.

edit on 19-5-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 





Paul's doctrine completely and utterly contradicts Jesus' messages in almost every single way.


I don't know what Bible you are reading, but I don't see it. Any elaborations on the gospels done by Paul in his writings were inspired by Holy Spirit, if you don accept that, then perhaps you don't understand Christianity.

I have found in my discussions with people over the years it's because they just disagree with it philosophically.
Reminds me of a guy who was mad a Jesus for overturning the tables at the temple. He disagreed with what he did. He is no longer a Christian because of those types of things.
Our perspective on how we feel about the entire New Testament does not change the reality of the truth told in it.

edit on 19-5-2013 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So why are the OT and Paul's letters all about rules and regulations? Didn't you say that anything other than love is religion, which you do not like? You are believing two contradictory statements at the same time. You can't dislike religion and like Paul at the same time because they are one in the same. Paul created the religion of Christianity through his letters. Why do you think it has become so big? Because Paul gave everyone an easy scapegoat to do whatever they wanted, and the elites of the time latched on to his teachings because they made the common folk complacent and uncaring, only looking out for themselves and their own salvation and admittance into heaven after they died.

Paul is the author of religion, yet you can't and won't see it. Jesus never rose from the dead, there was absolutely no need for him to because he said what he needed to say while alive. If his words aren't enough authority, then you don't have very much trust in them.



posted on May, 19 2013 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25


The message at every church is you are sinner, so believe in this religion and you will be saved. The one who turns stones into bread is indeed exactly what he tells his congregation that they are. He is a sinner, and he believes we are all sinners, because he who believes he was called also believes he is a sinner.

I haven't been in a church for many years, maybe 13, surely not all churches teach the sinner message. I haven't been to all churches, maybe some don't teach sin.

My general impression is that you're saying that only Jesus and possibly others who have overcome as he has have the ability to teach anything of truth. If so, then I think that I might understand what you're saying.


I do not believe I'm a sinner, nor does Christ Jesus. Christ said I am a son of God and that the simple fact that I am a son, means that I am also a God. The basic definition of a God is merely an immortal. I am an immortal, as promised by Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

You are also a son of God, therefore you are also immortal. Your spirit is an immortal being, created by God.

As immortal son's of God we were not created to be sinners, we were created to overcome sin.

I don't understand immortality, or immortal spirit. So I really shouldn't try to teach any one else about it. I feel content to let my spirit go when the time comes, that then my spirit will be shared by others after I'm gone. I don't have to continue, even though I would somehow continue in someone else. That's my understanding of reincarnation. The spirit becomes communally shared, just as are the atoms that make up my body become communally shared.

If there's something else that immortality is about, then I don't understand immortality. Then I also don't understand God.

If my thinking on the grain offering is correct, and the grain offering was offered to the disciples, and the grain offering was for the consumption of the god, then the disciples are the god, or the gods. You seem to suggest that there is an individual godness as well as the communal.

Overcoming sin seems such a small thing compared to knowing God. The words are easy to say. The reality is under or behind or over the words.

It will take me some time to re-read what you've written.




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