The narrow path

Matthew 7
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

How can Christians believe that Christianity is the "narrow path" even though it is the largest religion in the world? Jesus said that only a "few" people would find the narrow path, yet the religion he supposedly set up has become the largest path in the world and is steadily growing larger and larger by the day and has been for 2,000 years.

If Jesus was god and god knows everything infinitely beforehand, then why would he say that only a few would find this path when he knew that billions would end up finding it in the end? I don't know about you guys, but "billions" and "few" are not compatible, they are total opposites actually.

This set-up that god has put into place has another problem. If god truly wanted everyone to be saved, then why would he intentionally make it to where only a "few" would find it? As I said before, god knows everything in advance, so him setting up a path that only a "few" would find goes against the common Christian belief that he wants everyone to be saved.

Why condemn billions of people throughout history to hell if you truly want them in heaven? Why make the path narrow when he could have made it wide enough to let everyone through? If god knows everything in advance, then it goes to reason that he intentionally condemned those people, because he knew that only a "few" would find it beforehand.

What are your thoughts on this?

And on a side note, from the mouth of Jesus:

Matthew 15
14 Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit."

And from the mouth of Paul:

2 Corinthians 5
7 For we live by faith, not by sight.

These two verses are incompatible. Those who do not walk by sight are blind. Think about that.

I some how think the answer would fall on deaf ears, but I will answer it anyway, A basic tenant of both the Jewish and Christian faith is that man has rejected God to begin with.

1st knowing the outcome is not directly related to ensuring the outcome.

2nd. Many "christians" Will not be saved, because they do not truly follow christ.

3rd. The "way" is open to all, any can follow christ, but most do not.

4th. Two verses at the end deal with two separate matters, Paul is discussing having faith of what they have not seen after the resurrection people would not get to see jesus but would have faith in him anyway.

Answering the why of it is a theological question that one must understand the Jewish side of the Christian faith, going into the History of the Jews and their religious beliefs for a theological perspective.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Perhaps he was asking us to perfect ourselves...

These things take time... sometimes lives in my humble opinion...

reply to post by benrl


Thanks for the reply. My ears are open, even if I disagree with you.

What was Jesus speaking of when he talked about the blind leading the blind? If he said the blind fall into a pit, wouldn't it be logical to say that those with sight would not?

I see a contradiction personally, but to each his own. "Deaf ears" and all.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by benrl

 

Thanks for the reply. My ears are open, even if I disagree with you.

What was Jesus speaking of when he talked about the blind leading the blind? If he said the blind fall into a pit, wouldn't it be logical to say that those with sight would not?

I see a contradiction personally, but to each his own. "Deaf ears" and all.

Well I stand corrected.

There is something called hermeneutics, when you look at historical text, religious and so on, you need to take the whole section into accounting.

Jesus is clearly discussing the Pharisees of the time, who are following the letter of the law not the spirit of the law, he is calling them blind to the spirit behind the law they hold so tightly too.

You should read around the verse not just the verse for context, Jesus was very much against the idea of "Legalese " When it came to faith.

Thats why he said all of the law can be summed up in the golden rule.

reply to post by Akragon


The "self" is a narrow path isn't it? It seems like religion condemns those who believe in themselves the most, and I think that's awfully coincidental.

To look within yourself for god is the highest order of blasphemy within Abrahamic religions. Hmmm...

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Akragon

 

The "self" is a narrow path isn't it? It seems like religion condemns those who believe in themselves the most, and I think that's awfully coincidental.

To look within yourself for god is the highest order of blasphemy within Abrahamic religions. Hmmm...

Is it?

I was always struck by the indwelling nature of the "holy spirit", depending on sect and denomination some take it very literally as Gods indwelling presence in man.

As you say God inside, guiding and helping the faithful, very much a tenant of many christian faiths.

reply to post by benrl


Paul was a Pharisee before his "conversion". He was also struck "blind" after his so-called vision from Jesus, and he was also "lead" by hand into Damascus by the other men in his company, who I assume were "blind" as well because they persecuted Christians. There is nothing that implies that these men were converted along with Paul either.

Too many coincidences in my opinion.

reply to post by benrl


To put yourself as equal with Jesus is blasphemy isn't it? That was my meaning.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by benrl

 

Paul was a Pharisee before his "conversion". He was also struck "blind" after his so-called vision from Jesus, and he was also "lead" by hand into Damascus by the other men in his company, who I assume were "blind" as well because they persecuted Christians. There is nothing that implies that these men were converted along with Paul either.

Too many coincidences in my opinion.

Don't believe his companions where, just paul.

Now paul is a tricky one, He use much "Advice" and not commands, sort of like he gives what he views as good advice to people but not rules set in stone.

Paul is said to have done the most for christianity to help its spread, Debating pauls effects on christianity and his teachings could fill several other threads on that alone.

Things like pauls views on marriage, women, etc, again taken as advice and not rule of law, can be very controversial to some.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by benrl

 

To put yourself as equal with Jesus is blasphemy isn't it? That was my meaning.

What? No way. I'm so almost Jesus!

anyways....

different books, different contexts... this entire conversation is null and void lol.

Yup blind men lead the blind.... not as in visual.

Yup, faith doesn't take vision... it's much more than that.

It's hard to find that narrow path. I don't think it even has to be taken as a 'faith in christ thing', it's what you do and leading a good life free of the bad stuff. That's incredibly difficult when dealing with finance, business, and community. So spit on the ground and throw mud around!

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by benrl

 

To put yourself as equal with Jesus is blasphemy isn't it? That was my meaning.

Well Jesus is called the first born of gods children in romans, and it is said that we will be like him upon the resurrection.

For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

So equal can mean many things depending on context.

reply to post by benrl


Well, Paul does say that women should be silent and in submission while in church and even says it's the law, even though no such thing exists outside of him saying it.

1 Corinthians 14
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

Seems like he went beyond "advice" in this verse and stated it as "the law".

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The "self" is a narrow path isn't it?

No... its not actually...

the Selfless is the narrow path... and its not an easy path my friend

To look within yourself for god is the highest order of blasphemy within Abrahamic religions. Hmmm...

Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Depends on who you "listen" to...

reply to post by benrl


In the context of this life, we can be equal to Jesus. Would you consider that as blasphemy?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by benrl

 

Well, Paul does say that women should be silent and in submission while in church and even says it's the law, even though no such thing exists outside of him saying it.

1 Corinthians 14
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

Seems like he went beyond "advice" in this verse and stated it as "the law".

Well again hermuntics needs to be brought into play.

COrinthians is a letter to a church as it says at the beging that is in termoil, there is division in the church caused by infighting, he is giving THAT church guidelines on how to fix said problem.

10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 I

He is trying to fix a church that has lost it, based on problems he has heard about, he is trying to re-establish order, he is giving his interpretation on how to do such.

Which includes his own Pharisees bias to refer back to the law, Christians are not under the old covenant laws, but a new covenant which is much less letter of, so here paul is guilty of trying to impose the letter of.

Consider though that he was trying to bring order to a church that had fallen into disorder, even if he fell back on what he knew, remember the Law is not bad, just following it with out following the spirit of it is.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by benrl

 

In the context of this life, we can be equal to Jesus. Would you consider that as blasphemy?

Again equal how, are you claiming to be the Messiah that takes away the sins of the world? IF so than yes.

IF you are claiming to Have attained Jesus level of following gods commands? what exactly do you mean by being his equal?

eta

need to be heading to bed, will check in on this thread in the mourning.

reply to post by Akragon


You misunderstood my meaning it seems.

To see god within yourself is to see god within everything. You can be selfless while seeing god within (and without) yourself.

I think that realizing everything is One leads to selflessness because if everything is One, there is no "self", only the All. It sounds counter-intuitive, but it rings true to me.

So if the Kingdom of God is within us as Jesus says, then God is within your"self", though he is also outside of you as well, if you believe there is an "outside".

reply to post by benrl


But he says that women staying silent and submissive is in the law when it is not. Why would he say that the law says that when it doesn't?

He was imposing his own law in that instance, there's no way around that. Unless that statement is located somewhere else in the bible, he was creating his own law. As far as I know, nothing else in the bible says that women staying silent is the law.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Luke 11:40
Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?



There is no self in self-less... how can all be one if one focuses on self and not all?