Shuttle revisited.

Sent this after the shuttle disaster several years ago.

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but one of the Amature videos
that
I have seen on the news since Saturday shows the shuttle traveling
west
to east but the shuttle is sideways (2:00 - 3:00 NOSE POSITION
South)to the direction of motion. You can clearly see the outline of
the shuttle in this clip. The video
zooms in at first and you can see that the shuttle is turned sideways
with the rear of the shuttle facing the camera (North). The direction
of motion is clearly indicated but the redish flash you can see from
what apperars to be the trailing side of the shuttle. This flash could
be the yaw jets of the shuttle trying to recover or the begining of the
break-up.
Any how, seconds later you see the video zoom out and the shuttle
begin to break-up. The outline of the shuttle is only visible during
the zoom in of the clip.
I may be wrong, but I thought it might be worth reviewing. The
shuttle
apears to have gotten turned sideways to the direction of motion
(Nose South)instaed
of the nose (East)front movement you should have seen. I don't
know which video it is but it has been running since Saturday.
Also the video appears to have been shot from the North.

Hope this is helpful.


Just was bringing attention to some thing I saw on the news. Once again this was an observation of what was being shown on the news. For the rest of you I am a sales man by occupation.

Originally posted by jvarga390
For the rest of you I am a sales man by occupation.

Sorry, I'm not buying it!

ETA I feel ashamed. A "cheap shot", unworthy of ATS. Please, carry on. I have no idea hat you are talking about so will bow out here.

reply to post by jvarga390
What exactly is it you are trying to say? The shuttle disaster definitely happened: A few pieces of the shuttle landed a block from my house. They barricaded off our road and we had police, firemen, military and NASA crawling all over the place all day! I mowed my yard because I couldn't leave to go anywhere and watched them combing our whole area with a fine toothed comb. Pieces of the craft ended up all up and down the whole eastern side of my state.

reply to post by jvarga390


Several things that you need to help your thread.

First: explain what your thread is about. Right now, the only thing it seems to be about is what you remember from a video, and is nothing more than a description. What exactly are you trying to suggest?

Second: links to the video that you are talking about. It might take some research, but there are many, many videos of the shuttle disaster you are talking about.

Once you've provided the above, then discussion can begin. Right now all your thread seems to be is a walk down memory lane. So please explain to us what you are trying to say.

You said it all:

For the rest of you I am a sales man by occupation.

A good salesman knows his prospects when he walks through the door.
You, sir, do not know your prospects here on ATS or even the rules posted on the door.

Link to the video please

I, for one, understand what the OP is asking about here. I'll rephrase: on one of the amateur videos of the Shuttle Columbia breakup, the orbiter is seen flying sideways when the camera zooms in on it, and the OP wants our thoughts on this, i.e. was the orbiter really flying sideways at least for some time before breaking up.

I remember seeing this footage, with the orbiter clearly flying sideways. My guess is that as the structure of the left wing got compromised, the orbiter's aerodynamics altered and it swung to the side.

Here's the video: www.youtube.com...



Screenshot:


Analysis of the video: www.columbiassacrifice.com...
Official report discrediting the video: www.columbiassacrifice.com... According to them, it's just a magnified and out-of-focus diffraction pattern.

So, ultimately, it's up to the individual to decided was the orbiter flying sideways or not.

Here's an interesting video to watch - the full reconstruction of the disaster: www.chrisvalentines.com...

I sent the email to the news, was trying to help but have learned since they don't want any help. Didn't think it was an issue then, but had some unusual internet activity after the email was sent. I am a Salesman and not even in any scientific disapline.

When the observer zooms in, what you are seeing is actually the shape of the shutter aperture of the camera lens, not the shuttle itself.

Thanks for the video links. Very interesting indeed to listen to the series of events leading to the final moments. Starts off with faulty sensors and eventually the disaster. I'm sure we will see more updates sometime into the future similar to the challenger disaster.

Originally posted by wildespace
According to them, it's just a magnified and out-of-focus diffraction pattern.

So, ultimately, it's up to the individual to decided was the orbiter flying sideways or not.

That's like saying it's up to the individual to decide if the moon landing happened or not. It's simply not the case. Either the moon landing happened or it didn't. Either the diamond shaped image is the shape of the camera's aperture, or it isn't.

Individual beliefs are irrelevant to the ultimate truth.

And yes the moon landing happened and yes that diamond shape is well known here on ATS.
It's the shape of many "UFO"s but it's likely not really the shape of the objects, it's the shape of the camera aperture as seen in this diamond-shaped venus:



Venus doesn't really have that diamond shape of course, so when you see that shape, you should suspect it's an artifact of autofocus zoom as Mogget said, unless you have good reason not to.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


So why is the lower half of the shape darker than the top one? And what are those dark areas along the middle? This doesn't look like a blurry diffraction pattern, it has a very clear shape. The bottom half is also wider and more rounded, unlike the more pointy top. A diffraction pattern would be highy symmetrical and white throughout.

Watching the reconstruction video I linked, there's the final roll to the right before communications cut-off and the break-up. Perhaps it was this roll, accompanied by the desintegration of the left wing, that turned the orbiter sideways.

It's not fair to compare this with the Moon landing, which has solid evidence on many levels. The amateur video here is still up to individual interpretation.

Slo-mo version of the video: www.myspace.com...
Diffraction patter my a$$.

Here's what a diffraction pattern would have approximately looked like:


This report also shows that the orbiter began to sideslip in some direction prior to the final break-up: spaceflightnow.com...

reply to post by wildespace

Yes that's the diamond shape we see.
So you're asking why the diffraction pattern isn't uniform? Because the original object is not uniform. It has darker areas and lighter areas and we see distortions of those in the diffraction.

Your reproduction is similar to the video of Venus which doesn't have contrast like the shuttle.

After the orbiter broke up I'm sure any attitude was possible of the pieces that were left, including tumbling, but before the breakup, the aerodynamics of flying sideways while the wings and tail were still attached don't make any sense. You can find as much evidence for that in aerodynamic modeling and wind tunnel tests as you can for the moon landing.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Can you please find me an example of a diffraction pattern that looks similar to this Columbia footage, i.e. one half is darker and a different shape from the other half. I've seen many diffraction patterns in my life, and none of them look like the one in this video. How can you explain the top of the shape being much brighter, and pointier, than the bottom half? What is that dark line going roughly through the middle?

Further reading concerning Columbia flying sideways:
Space Shuttle Columbia: Her Missions and Crews
Did Rough Wing Break Columbia?

Although this would lead the shuttle to turning left and facing the camera, the opposite of what seems to appear in the video.

Originally posted by wildespace
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

Can you please find me an example of a diffraction pattern that looks similar to this Columbia footage, i.e. one half is darker and a different shape from the other half. I've seen many diffraction patterns in my life, and none of them look like the one in this video. How can you explain the top of the shape being much brighter, and pointier, than the bottom half? What is that dark line going roughly through the middle?

Here's a similar example video and screenshot. How can you explain the top of the shape being much brighter, and pointier, than the bottom half? What is that dark line going roughly through the middle?:

CAUTION: to all UFO videographers



As you can see the artifact is bright on top, has a dark line in the middle, and is somewhat faded on the bottom like the shuttle artifact. It's not exact, but you get the idea; it's not uniform like the Venus artifact.

Only when the diamond shaped artifact is not present is the actual shape of the object revealed, and we have no clue of the shape of the object from looking at the diamond artifact. I hope you can see and understand this from this example.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Ironically, the "UFO" in your video is a winged aircraft, with its wings almost parallel to the camera's field of view (or at least within 45 degrees), and the darker lower half corresponds with the aircraft's belly. I'm not convinced that the initial shape of the object is purely due to the diffraction pattern.

Just because you see the diamond shape doesn't automatically mean it's a diffraction pattern hiding the true shape of the object. Diamond shape may be due to the angle of view, and some aircraft have this shape as part of the design.

Originally posted by wildespace
Just because you see the diamond shape doesn't automatically mean it's a diffraction pattern hiding the true shape of the object. Diamond shape may be due to the angle of view, and some aircraft have this shape as part of the design.

Now it's your turn to provide an example. It's possible I suppose, but I've never seen an example of that with any aircraft.

I've never seen a diamond shaped aircraft (Delta shape isn't a symmetrical diamond), and even if it had that shape from one specific angle, the chance of photographing it from that exact angle would be small compared to all the other possible angles.

For UFO photos, we can't be as quick to rule out a diamond shape since we don't know the shape of the object like we do with known aircraft, which is why I used the word "likely" in saying the diamond shape was probably the camera's aperture. We can't be sure but still there may be clues.

There are some other qualifiers too. Not every camera uses the diamond shaped aperture and some irises even have variable shapes due to the iris design. So when we see the camera's aperture due to an out of focus image, it will not always be a diamond, though that is a popular shape on a lot of popular video cameras.

I believe the shuttle flys some different S patterns to disapte energy during final tarnsition to the landing site. It was a National tragedy either way. I have long been an advocate of NASA, and on this day I was watching like a lot of Americans.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

That looks to me like the nose is pointed towards the bottom of the pic, and the aft fuselage is pointed towards the top of the pic. The dark line is the dividing line between the lower portion of the fuselage and the heat tiles, and the upper portion that's more reflective. The light reflecting off the wings and the aft fuselage around the engines blocks them out, but there's nothing to reflect on the bottom portion, so it's not as bright (it's still bright from the heat that it is dissipating possibly).

That's my take on it.