You still want gun carrying teachers in your schools?

To answer your original question: Yes, I still do. So one person had an accident? What the hell is the big deal? He obviously should have been more careful with his dangerous firearm. Doesn't mean that every teacher with a gun is going to accidentally shoot their cousins.

Originally posted by thesmokingman
reply to post by Romeo1

 

Yes I read it and he was apparently not trained well..I have had a concealed carry permit since the 80's and never shot anyone accidently...someone was not being carefull..

I will send 100$ to the account of your choosing if you can show me where it says he was not trained well in this article.
ETA: Here, let me help you:

AURORA, Colo. - Aurora police and Aurora Public Schools are investigating the accidental shooting of a student by a staff member. School superintendent John Barry said the shooting happened in the parking lot at Rangeview High School Monday at 4:30 p.m. The staff member, who has not been identified, was going to give a student a ride home, Barry said. "This staff member also works as a security guard off campus and his security guard weapon accidentally discharged while in his truck, hitting this student in the leg," Barry said in a statement. Police said the employee was trying to put the gun into the glove box when the weapon fired. The employee, who students told 7NEWS is a school monitor, drove the student to a nearby hospital. The student was rushed into surgery with what police described as a "significant injury" to his leg. Barry said the student is expected to recover. The staff member has been placed on paid administrative leave. "Again, this was an accidental shooting," Barry stressed. "Please be assured that the safety and security of our students is a top priority in Aurora Public Schools." Detectives have asked anyone who witnessed the incident or know anything else about it to contact Detective Dave Van Nostrand at 303-627-3246 or Crime Stoppers at 720-913-STOP.

edit on 14-5-2013 by thesmokingman because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-5-2013 by thesmokingman because: (no reason given)

I saw it didnt mention his training... but what Im saying is I was trained well and I have never shot anyone by accident in 32 years of concealed carry with my weapon...if you want to talk accident..then I will say it would have been just as easy to kill someone with a car as an accident with a gun...so there is no point to this...we need and in most areas now have armed personal in the schools and Im happy about it. I feel my kids are safer for it. Your anti gun talk does not work here...and in the US you dreaming if you think it will change.

Originally posted by thesmokingman
reply to post by Romeo1

 

I still want armed people in the schools period...it is the only way to stop a nutjob that is armed. I have two kids and Im perfectly fine with trained armed teachers or aids or rent a cops in the school.

You do realize that these armed guards you speak of can be shot and killed just as easily as anyone else right? There is no way to stop some idiots with nothing else to live for from committing these crimes.

Sure they can be shot but maybe they will take out the shooter before he kills more kids...Hmmmmmm

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by thesmokingman

With the simple pull of a trigger, if need be.

But the reality of gun possession is that the mere threat of retaliation will typically avoid most incidents. So far in my life, I have been forced to pull my weapon only once, and have never had to fire it at another human. I also made no secret of the fact that I was armed.

Today, if I enter a school grounds, I am greeted with signs on top of signs proudly declaring that I am entering a gun-free school zone. If I had intent to do harm in that place, these signs would be akin to a red carpet welcome as they are proclaiming that I may do as I wish with impunity until the police arrive, which can take five - ten minutes. On the other hand, if I know that there are people inside the school with the means to protect themselves and the children, I would not be as likely to enter with intent to do harm, seeing as my life is then at stake.

Students are typically not expert marksmen. They are troubled youth who are lashing out in rage at society... hardly sharpshooters. Adults who wish to do harm have the disadvantage of being easily recognized and having to enter through some sort of security system. Put together, that means that students are out-gunned and adults are unable to use the element of surprise. Either is therefore at a disadvantage when facing an armed faculty.

So we can go on, depending on signs and luck to protect our children, or we can diminish the advantages a potential shooter would have under present circumstances and increase the chances of stopping him/her before children can be killed.

So do you still prefer luck and signs?

TheRedneck

Great statement !! this is my point exactly!! anyone that thinks a sign that is up will stop anyone from carrying their gun is mistaken..and I am willing to bet that there is someone somehwere carrying a gun in a "weapon free zone" right now legal or not....and if I was a bad guy with a gun I would be looking for these areas since I know I wont get shot right?

IMHO, when you need guns in schools to protect children you have a society with major malfunction. What's next...Motes, sharks and drawbridges? All you're going to get arming teachers is hostage situations and more accidental shootings.

Originally posted by minkmouse
IMHO, when you need guns in schools to protect children you have a society with major malfunction. What's next...Motes, sharks and drawbridges? All you're going to get arming teachers is hostage situations and more accidental shootings.

Yes you are correct...but the way to go after a malfunctioning society is to address mental health...but sorry that is too costly... so lets go for the low hanging fruit and just take guns away...the sooner people realize that guns are not going away the better we will all be able to look for better solutions.

reply to post by minkmouse

I can't argue with the fact that we have a malfunctioning society, but that fact means we either give up and accept that we will soon die a violent death or try to fix it. I prefer the latter. I'm just not real good at giving up, and I like to go with my strengths instead of my weaknesses.

But I am a bit confused as to how you get hostage situations out of arming trained, licensed school personnel. Could you please elaborate on that point?

TheRedneck

While I do support a teacher's legal right to carry a weapon at work I'm on the fence as to whether it should be encouraged by the school administration as a defense measure. I found this relevant:

List of school shootings in the US

Skimming through this list shows plenty of examples of teachers losing it and shooting up the school for various reasons. It also shows that school shootings are not a new phenomena. The frequency of shootings does seem to increase through the years, but the population and number of schools and students also increased. I didn't do the math to verify it but it looks like the rate of shootings has possibly decreased over time relative to the population.

This leads me to consider that the whole issue of school shootings has been blown out of proportion in recent years.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by minkmouse

I can't argue with the fact that we have a malfunctioning society, but that fact means we either give up and accept that we will soon die a violent death or try to fix it. I prefer the latter. I'm just not real good at giving up, and I like to go with my strengths instead of my weaknesses.

But I am a bit confused as to how you get hostage situations out of arming trained, licensed school personnel. Could you please elaborate on that point?

TheRedneck

I may be off base but if my intent was to go into a school and kill children and I found myself between a rock and a hard place trying to escape due to some trained staff member with a gun, my first instinct would be to use me and my weapon plus a teacher/student as a human shield. Then again my whole mental picture of this kind of event was learned from Warner and MGM.
As for fixing the problem, I just don't see throwing more guns at it as the answer somehow...Seems reactive in it's approach where perhaps a proactive stance might serve better.

In a word, yes. I do want teachers that are trained to be allowed to carry firearms.

reply to post by minkmouse

Ah, I see now. Thank you for clarifying that.

As I see it, the hostage situation you speak of would still exist whether or not the person facing the perpetrator was a school employee or a policeman. The difference is time; an immediate assault from a school employee would give an assailant much less time to secure a location and select hostages than they would have if they had to wait on the police. Also, it is easy to shield oneself from a single front with a hostage; it is much more difficult to use a human shield when everyone around you is a potential threat.

As far as the "retro vs. progressive" approach, when one makes an adjustment to something and that something then works less well, is it more prudent to return it to its original condition and try something else, or to keep adjusting? School shootings are a phenomenon which has started to be a problem only fairly recently; in my day, the big problem was keeping kids from smoking in the restroom.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


It's a big leap from checking your seat for thumbtacks before you sit to wondering if you're gonna get shot today that's for sure. School was tough enough back then, I just can't imagine it today

reply to post by TheRedneck

I always refer back to my daddy's three laws of gun safety:

Always treat every gun as if it were loaded
Never point at anything you do not wish to kill
Only kill for food or defense.

Yep, that's pretty much how I learned them, and taught them to my household as well.

We also added:

A gun is only unloaded when YOU check that it is. (never assume this, even if told, unless you check it yourself).
When not pointing it at something to kill or a target, point it at the ground.
Drinking and guns don't mix.

I love how people take one situation and then use that to judge everything...

I saw a guy yesterday riding his bike and he looked at something to his left and then ran into some people.

We should not allow anyone to ride a bike...

See I can do it too..

My guess is one cousin was messing with the gun in front of another and then had an accident.

Guess what... Accidents do happen... Was he at fault.. Probably.

Does this mean no other human can own and gun and not do something stupid..

Nope..

Originally posted by thesmokingman
reply to post by Romeo1

 

I still want armed people in the schools period...it is the only way to stop a nutjob that is armed. I have two kids and Im perfectly fine with trained armed teachers or aids or rent a cops in the school.

You do realize that these armed guards you speak of can be shot and killed just as easily as anyone else right? There is no way to stop some idiots with nothing else to live for from committing these crimes.

Oh, OK. Great point. SO the best defense is...no defense at all? Just accept that people want to make it easier for the "bad guys" to target law abiding citizens. Instead of reaching for a weapon when a crazed armed maniac comes to kill you and killing him/her instead - you would rather that we all just bend over and get killed. You seem to be saying that you would prefer a zero chance at surviving to a 50/50 chance. I find that insane. Or maybe just cowardly...

Originally posted by MrWendal
reply to post by thesmokingman

 

People have accidents in cars. Even more than gun accidents. Should we remove cars from society? Maybe go back to the days of a horse and buggy? Oh wait... people have had accidents on horses as well. So maybe we should just walk. Oh wait, people have had accidents walking. Maybe we should all just stay home and be protected from ourselves.

Well said. You know, to expand on the reality of your statement - more people die in car accidents each year than murders and suicides combined (per the CDC) - so by the logic of this thread, cars should be outlawed.

The old statement is especially true nowadays...if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.
Yeah, that sounds lovely.

If the American answer to people getting killed by guns is get more guns then why dont they arm all the children as well?

More guns! More guns!

Originally posted by DAVID64
This was an accidental discharge, not a school shooting. The guy did not have the weapon in the school, did not threaten anyone in any way. So why is this being turned in to a witch hunt? Maybe because it's about a gun? Anti gun crowd is really reaching on this one.

Weird though, shooting in Aurora called for gun law changes, now back to Aurora.

reply to post by thesmokingman


I want every law abiding citizen afforded the opportunity to carry where ever he will. We need to stop demonizing guns. It was completely normal before the Libs got a hold of the 2nd amendment for kids to open carry firearms TO SCHOOL! But what they've done, is freaked all the kids out into thinking "guns bad" so that none of them are properly trained on them any longer.

reply to post by thesmokingman


Man, is it just me or does a lot of weird stuff happen in Colorado???