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US Spends Much More on Education, but the Student Performance is Much Worse, Why?

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posted on May, 14 2013 @ 04:31 PM
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I came across this interesting study, where the education spending and student performance are compared in different countries - Mexico, Brazil, Australia, Japan, Canada, France, Germany, Finland, Denmark, Russia, South Korea, UK and USA.



U.S. EDUCATION SPENDING AND PERFORMANCE VS. THE WORLD [INFOGRAPHIC]


The results show that USA is annually spending on education (per school kid) more than any of the other countries mentioned above (over 1/3 more than any other European country), while the results of US are much poorer.

US Spending on Education: 1st
US Sciences Scores 9th
US Math Scores 10th

Where do the things go wrong? What are the reasons behind the lower quality of education in sciences and math. Overpaid teachers? Weak system? Weak standards?

To be honest, it was really surprising study to see. I knew about the weaker scores in sciences and math, but the money spent was stunning. Nearly 8k per kid in one year, compared to nearly 6k with the nearest contenders in the list is a lot.

Where does it go wrong?
edit on 14-5-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 14 2013 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by Cabin
 

Perhaps in these countries family is a much more important part of there culture.and children take from that a sense of self identity,value,confidence and postitive enforcement needed to take on the challenges of young adulthood.
At a time We are still discovering and becoming oursleves,Family is the counter balance to a system that educates us on everything but.
edit on 14-5-2013 by all2human because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


ahhh..

The answer is really simple. Just because you spend a million dollars on a boat, doesn't mean you bought the best boat, or got the best deal.

Education in the US is a business, just like any other and they treat it as such. This means that the people who run the show are well taken care of, but the people receiving the service, the students in this case, are treated like a nuisance.

I suggest you watch the film entitled " Waiting For Superman".

That will give you some good perspective.

~Tenth



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 04:51 PM
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Because corporations inflate the cost of materials, supplies, insurance, equipment, etc. to turn a profit.

It seems apparent that in a capitalistic economy, profit is more desirable than security, because for some; money can buy every kind of security a person needs.

good thread topic!



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


I am in the classroom every day. I can tell you why. Our society promotes objectivism and our role models are selfish people glorified in the media. Parents are too busy working too many hours to spend quality time with their children so they can pay for all the things they don't need. Parents spend their money on self-gratifying behavior at the expense of providing necessities for their children. In return, their children model this behavior and become selfish themselves. In former days, the well raised children were the rule and the kids from broken homes were the exception. The rule is now the exception and we are seeing a flipped world. No amount of money can keep a classroom quite and focused on seeking knowledge. Why?

To seek knowledge, you must have your basic foundational needs met. Abraham Maslow showed us this, as did the ancient philosophers of antiquity. To seek knowledge, a person must not be focused on basic needs. They must have these needs met or there is no self esteem. Without self-esteem, there can be no desire to seek knowledge and transcend the animal nature of selfish tendency. Selfish people have a narrow awareness of need in others. Unselfish people are aware of the needs of others and act accordingly. Whether its the teacher asking for a quite and focused classroom or the bullied student seeking a friend, our society falls apart when we develop selfishness as our main ideology.

Now you know.

2 Timothy 3

3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

18 items marking selfishness. That's 6+6+6. We are in the thick of this today. The only way out is to rise above the problem with truth and sincerity.

Here are your answers:

Confucius - Doctrine of the Mean

Romans 12

What does an empty cup desire? To be filled. Our kids are begging for the answer we should already know above. What is the remedy for injustice? Justice rises in the empty cup. What is the answer to tyranny? The tyrants betray themselves and fall into the holes they dig. What is the answer to selfishness? Overcome with love.

Empty cups always seek to be filled. Love covers a multitude of sin. The pendulum will swing.



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 04:56 PM
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Stats, stats, stats......but where are the STATS for the chart? Or did someone just try and paint a colorful picture?

Oh i see they are the outdated stats from 4 years ago, and IMO totally useless, as the world changes so fast now days,.

Just trying to keep you from getting raged on by some of the more by the numbers members of ATS.

I do see it in my own area though, dropouts are at an all time high for our district. They just made the standardized testing harder in my state.

I believe the whole issue stems from the Instant Gratification age.......the Internet and hand held computing devices.

Every 12 year old begs mommy and daddy for a smart phone now days, giving them access to a wealth of knowledge. The problem with this is that it doesn't teach them anything, just gives them the ability to be GOOGLE aficionados.

I don't know where this country is going to be in a few more years. Maybe the movie Idiocracy was a warning.

I have no problem with tech as long as you use your brain along side the device, not replace your brain with the device.

The human brain is 1000's of times more powerful than modern processors, start using what you have and stop relying on calculators, spell check and Google.

Sorry to rant but your thread hit a nerve.



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 04:57 PM
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If a student does not come to school prepared to learn, the teachers can't force them to learn.

There are many many school districts where the students do great.

Typically when you get to the low income areas, the students don't do nearly as well.

You have to look at schools almost on a school by school basis to figure out which ones are good.



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 05:01 PM
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My opinion of why our school age kids test lower as a whole...
How many languages do you think they speak in S. Korean schools? Im not sure but I would guess 1.

As far as the other countries, I would guess they teach in their respective language.

Here in America we have kids that dont speak our language.

Our country is huge with school kids that whose native language' vary widely

When I lived in Las Vegas their schools tested so poorly they were considering teaching 1/2 day in English 1/2 in Spanish

Then you bring in the inner city kids that see school as something other than an opportunity to learn. I'm not blaming them outright as they have learned they can grow up on welfare and afford iphones and pricey clothes.

I'm sure many school kids in Mexico and Brazil live in poverty but see education as a way out of that. I doubt many kids in those countries have better cell phones than I do, and better clothes.

I'm betting if we took our top, say 1 million students??? 100k? top 10% against any other countries we would hold our own
I just think our country is so large and diverse ethnically, economically and probably a few ally's I dont even know about its almost comparing apples to oranges



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 05:10 PM
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Well could be stuff like the decked out swimming pools at some schools and sports.
Or the fact we pay more for stuff and the other countries get it cheaper. You know like for instance Prescription drugs. And I imagine having to perhaps have everything in 3 languages could be a factor but then maybe schools are not hit with that yet but I imagine that will happen soon enough.

Are these other countries bused to school? I know these new buses flying past our place can't be cheap.
edit on 5/14/2013 by Connman because: added last part



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 05:36 PM
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Lots and lots of reasons, but here's one scenario I faced three years ago.

Teaching fifth grade, title 1 school (which means low income). In December I got a new student from Honduras who spoke no English at all. None.

At the end of the school year she had to take the standardized tests. In English. Want to guess her scores? But they were reported anyway.

This happens a lot.



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 05:41 PM
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I was actually surprised to see kids in the US actually tested that well.
My guess would have been much lower than that. Part of the problem is that we don't seem to want to hurt the fragile little egos of todays kids by giving them a failing grade for turning in incorrect answers. That and we can't possibly force the teachers to actually know the subject matter they teach, because that would be so "unfair".


As some of us "older folks" are aware, "back in the day" you went to school or got punished. You got the answers correct or you failed. You obeyed your parents and authority figures or you got punished. My generation and every generation before me were brought up believing that everything in life was earned. And every generation before mine had it harder than I did. You wanted a car or something else - you got a job flipping burgers (or tacos in my case) and bought your own car. Mommy and daddy didn't provide you with every little thing you wanted while protecting you from having the slightest little bit of responsibility, and you didn't pass you classes just because you were "present". Back then laziness was the exception - not the rule that it is today. Stuck up, self involved, disobedient kids who spent all day taking pictures of themselves and thinking that the world owed them something just didn't exist. We have destroyed the future of our country by teaching our children that they don't have to earn anything anymore like we had to do growing up - we've instead taught them that they deserve stuff without actually earning it.

That's the problem with just about everything in America - we've taken away all forms of personal responsibility.



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by tallcool1
 


I completely agree with everything in your post until is part:


That and we can't possibly force the teachers to actually know the subject matter they teach, because that would be so "unfair".


Under No Child Left Behind, a teacher must be highly qualified in the subject they teach. This means a master's degree or passing an equivalent test. So I believe the majority of teachers do know their subject matter.

Social promotion is a major problem. I sat on the retention committee last week, where we decide if students should be held back or not. To pass first grade, students need to be reading on level J. We had students reading on level B....no way could they be successful in second grade when they can't read. But our administration "passed" these children anyway. I finally lost my cool and asked why and was told "It will look bad if we retain ten kids in first grade."

I've been thinking long and hard about my career in education. I'm tired of giving 110%, day in and day out, and it's never recognized or appreciated. I'm tired of earning a pittance, and then spending a couple hundred dollars a semester buying things like paper and pencils because the school and parents can't provide them. I'm tired of trying to help a child, only to be yelled at by the parents when I try to hold little Johnny accountable for his work and actions. I'm tired of inept administrators and apathetic parents.

I became a teacher because I wanted to make a difference. Yet as a teacher I'm the first one blamed for everything, the first one held in contempt, and the last person with any real say in how to make things better. The system sucks.

Sorry, tallcool, that wasn't all directed at you.



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 06:22 PM
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I submit for your consideration that a more money is spent per pupil for those students who get special education services than for those who do not.
I submit that there are (as the result of lawsuits) requirements for how many special education students must be in regular education classes.
I submit that some of those students are not best served in those classes and do not make the same gains they could in a smaller, skill level grouped setting.
I submit that some of those students distract others.
I submit that kids who aren't special ed and get in trouble for distracting promptly get paperwork calling them special ed instead of a parental behavior intervention.
I submit that more money is then spent on a "special education" student who isn't actually "special" and has already made their choice to not make the most of their educational experience.

Loop this for 12 years and see what ya get.

Not fair to any kid (one with or without disabilities) trying to maximize their education.
Not fair to most anyone.



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 06:29 PM
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Education is not the same as indoctrination. The U.S. spends it's money on making people stupid, not smarter. No one wants an educated slave.



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


Because America doesn't value education or science.

When nearly 50% of your population think fossils were placed inside rocks by the devil to lure people away from jesus your gonna have major problems.



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


Why?

Teachers, Unions, Agendas.

MHO



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


Smylee - Please don't get me wrong. I have the utmost of respect for a lot of teachers who, in my opinion, are severely overworked and underpaid. But there has been in the recent past (can't remember when/where) that there was the idea of annually testing teachers and basing their continued employment/pay on it...and they lost their collective sh!t at the thought of it. I believe it was here in Washington state, but I could be wrong. That's really what I was referring to, but I had already been a little long winded in my post.

As with everything, I know not all teachers are like that. I know a great many only wish to teach. I do sincerely apologize if I offended you or anyone else...but there are a number of teachers that I am aware of who are...less than deserving of their jobs.



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 06:44 PM
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my teacher friends have said that other countries dont count "special needs" students in their scores and the US includes EVERYONES scores.

if true, obviously that can change things quite a bit. especially depending on how easy/hard it is to classify a student as "special needs" or whatever the technical term was.

any teachers verify this? or just my teacher friends idiots?


also, totally agree with the whole concept of other countries value education and family structures more.

im going to guess that finland doesnt have shows like teen mom, jersey shore and any of the garbage put out by the kardashians. just a guess, never been there so dont really know what their tv programming is like. i do know that the US is pretty much nothing but garbage 95% of the time.

except duck dynasty. thats a show more people should watch and take notes from.



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by tallcool1
reply to post by smyleegrl
 


Smylee - Please don't get me wrong. I have the utmost of respect for a lot of teachers who, in my opinion, are severely overworked and underpaid. But there has been in the recent past (can't remember when/where) that there was the idea of annually testing teachers and basing their continued employment/pay on it...and they lost their collective sh!t at the thought of it. I believe it was here in Washington state, but I could be wrong. That's really what I was referring to, but I had already been a little long winded in my post.

As with everything, I know not all teachers are like that. I know a great many only wish to teach. I do sincerely apologize if I offended you or anyone else...but there are a number of teachers that I am aware of who are...less than deserving of their jobs.


You didn't offend me, no worries. I needed to vent, we're in the testing season right now and it's stressful.

The idea of merit pay has advantages and disadvantages. Consider my school; I have a couple of kids who are homeless and sleeping in their cars. I have four students with little or no English skills. Because I'm the grade level chair, I have the students who have severe discipline problems (one threw a rock and hit me in the back, it left a huge bruise and this is first grade!)

So the students in my class are not, generally speaking, going to be the brightest of the bunch (I am NOT saying they cannot learn). Working with this group has been a real challenge. The majority came to me not knowing the alphabet or the sounds each letter made.

Rising kindergarten students are supposed to be on reading level D. In my class, I had 1 D, 3 Cs, and the rest were reading behaviors. The requirement for the end of first grade is that the child be on level J. That's a growth of 6 levels.

After giving the reading test last week, only seven of my eighteen students were reading on level J or higher. However, all of my students had grown at least6 levels, with 4 students growing 8 levels and 2students growing 9 levels.

Now,if my pay was based solely on the number of kids reading on J, I'd be screwed. But if my pay is based on the GROWTH of my students, I'd be sitting pretty.

That's the main argument against merit pay.



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by pngxp
my teacher friends have said that other countries dont count "special needs" students in their scores and the US includes EVERYONES scores.

if true, obviously that can change things quite a bit. especially depending on how easy/hard it is to classify a student as "special needs" or whatever the technical term was.

any teachers verify this? or just my teacher friends idiots?


also, totally agree with the whole concept of other countries value education and family structures more.

im going to guess that finland doesnt have shows like teen mom, jersey shore and any of the garbage put out by the kardashians. just a guess, never been there so dont really know what their tv programming is like. i do know that the US is pretty much nothing but garbage 95% of the time.

except duck dynasty. thats a show more people should watch and take notes from.


There are no special ed classes round here. There are certain schools that provide special education and they are counted in both.

Although one of the reasons might be the fact that the amount of children with special needs is less for whatever reasons.

Some differences from another perspective.

1) Here is no choosing classes. I do not know about all US, the high school in the area where I was had some kind of credit point system, although here nearly everything is involuntary. Five languages, no separation of maths (math is math), history, psychology, chemistry etc. No advanced classes. In 5th grade I already had 3 separate languages,including home language, and there was no choice. Either do it or be kicked out of school. I do not know about US system

2) At least in math US takes more time with it. The stuff in our 5th grade is in US 9th grade. Based on the materials I managed to take a look at, we take more in depth than there. Sciences seemed also a bit more superficial. I had 5-6 x 45 minutes math lessons a week and we did not even manage to get to integrals and matrices in high school.

Now programming was also added to the curriculum here. I wonder how it will be like. 12 years of programming skills when coming out high school




Finland has Jersey Shore and most of the US things. US serials and hollywood movies are taking up most of the TV-time + anybody can just watch MTV... Jersey Shore and Teen Mum should be in their programme, as far as I know. Although nearly no US talk shows.
edit on 14-5-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)





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