Breaking the illusion of heaven

Ah, heaven! Paradise! What impressions of heaven do you have? What do you think it will be like?

First, consider all the things that can't be done in heaven - not if it's really paradise.

Would you have to work for a living? That would not be heaven to me.

Imagine every meal as the most delicious thing you've ever eaten. But wait! If there's food, there's peeing and pooping. Toilets and septic systems in heaven? I don't think so. Garbage dumps? Rotting trash? Nah, there's no eating in heaven.

Sex in heaven would be mind boggling! On second thought, intercourse is for making babies. If babies can be made in heaven, why do we make them here? Plus, I'm pretty sure our sex parts stay in the grave when we die.

Sports? Hmmm, the losing teams would be miserable. I don't think misery is allowed in paradise. So, that's nix on the sports.

So far, all I can see is families reuniting and doing...?...nothing. Can't talk about our failures on earth - that would be depressing

I hope heaven is like personal heavens. I want to drink and smoke an drive fast.

reply to post by jiggerj


Heaven, for me, would be reincarnating into a wealthy, loving family and no health issues!

reply to post by jiggerj

If you can't imagine what heaven would be like, what does that demonstrate except that you can't imagine it?
There are deep-sea fish, living at the bottom of ocean beds, who can have had no experience living on land or in an atmosphere, and cannot possibly imagine what it would be like. Does their inability to imagine life on land prove that life on land is impossible?
No doubt there is some deep-sea Jiggerj at this very moment who is mocking the idea of skyscrapers, and jet-planes, and internets, and anything else that doesn't involve lots of salty water.
His mockery is as valid as yours.

Guess there's a realm for every persons idea of Heaven - now that would be heaven lol I'm currently reading a fantastic book by William Gleeson - 'Before The Delusion' - a really good book. The Author decided to write it as fiction because of it's heavy informational content that is all based on fact - a bit like the Davinci Code but his research on Ancient History and the Bible (very controversial findings) is all verifiable historical fact - A lot of Wow factor! Explains so much.

reply to post by jiggerj


Heaven in the Bible is always the word for heavens (Sky). We pass through the waters of the Jordan before crossing over to the other side. Baptism is the immersion of the soul into the river of life. Beyond the Jordan, we are promised a new Heavens and Earth. Looking out across the vast expanse of infinity, it is not hard to make the connections and significance of what the promised land beyond the water might represent.

In Deuteronomy 4, it outlines a bit of the story for us to consider.

19 And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the Lord your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. 20 But as for you, the Lord took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of Egypt, to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are.

What do we see here? First, Earth is compared to Egypt (Picture of Heaven and earth) where we are refined like iron in a furnace. Why smelt iron? To glean out impurity. The same reference is made with the Dew, which are little drops of water from the vast ocean. When the sun rises, the impurities are distilled. We return back to the ocean from where we first came.

1 Kings 17

17 Now Elijah the Tishbite, from Tishbe[a] in Gilead, said to Ahab, “As the Lord, the God of Israel, lives, whom I serve, there will be neither dew nor rain in the next few years except at my word.”

Here, Elijah shows us that the dew is shut off because of Ahab. Why does this matter? Read further and you see Elijah traveling to Zarephath, which means refinery. There, he meets a widow woman who had a dead child in her bosom. Elijah takes the child up stairs (Picture of rising to heaven), then returns the soul to the body. He then returns the baby to the bosom of the mother below (Picture of baptism / Involution). Why does the Bible tell this story of Elijah? Because he was later personified as the reborn John the Baptist who would come to prepare the way for the Christ. How? By turning on the water. Baptism is the immersion of the soul into the water (Jordan). For what purpose? Refinement.

Now, return to the promise and hope of heaven. What does Deuteronomy 6 say we inherit on the other side of the Jordan?

10 When the Lord your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you—a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, 11 houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied, 12 be careful that you do not forget the Lord, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

Things you did not build or need to work toward. The kingdom you enter is perfected and is already in existence.

Midrash

Future bliss can neither be imagined, explained, nor described. We know nothing of its nature, form, greatness, or beauty, its quantity or quality. This much one should know, the phrase, "the world to come," does not imply that it is a world yet to be called into existence; it exists already, but the phrase is employed to describe the life into which those who are in the present stage of existence will be transposed when they throw off this mortal coil.

What do you need to do now, before entering the other side of the Jordan? Repent of the animal nature. The mark of the beast (Antichrist) is selfishness. A child is selfish until he learns to broaden awareness beyond the mother's breast; beyond the confines of home; beyond the teaching of the Father. We are children of God until we are no longer children. Right now, we exist in an image of the true reality.

Hebrews 9

23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

In this image, we see dimly. We are children.

1 Cor 13
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

reply to post by jiggerj


Perhaps it is similar to a dream, where you experience even though its only in the minds eye...

When you return home as I like to put it... You would first come to the realization that all your loved ones are not actually dead, they are alive and well... Big sigh of relief... perhaps even an emotional breakdown...

Your long lost friends of the furry kind are there happy to see you...

one big huge emotional re union...

Some how I imagine a trial or something at some point, which is our judgement... in which we experience everything bad we've done to others within this incarnation... More tears!

Grief... remorse... perhaps even some pleading for for forgiveness... and definitely regret...

and finally joy in knowing that God is forgiving and merciful... not a wrathful tyrant who we should fear...

Then if we choose to and we're worthy of it.... We move on to whatever is needed next

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by jiggerj

 

If you can't imagine what heaven would be like, what does that demonstrate except that you can't imagine it?
There are deep-sea fish, living at the bottom of ocean beds, who can have had no experience living on land or in an atmosphere, and cannot possibly imagine what it would be like. Does their inability to imagine life on land prove that life on land is impossible?
No doubt there is some deep-sea Jiggerj at this very moment who is mocking the idea of skyscrapers, and jet-planes, and internets, and anything else that doesn't involve lots of salty water.
His mockery is as valid as yours.

When did breaking an illusion become mocking? Billions of people believe in a fleshy heaven, with sex and food. Islamic terrorists get a whole bunch of virgins when they kill themselves in an act of war. Wouldn't you like to see this illusion/delusion cleared up in the minds of those lunatics?

Originally posted by jiggerj

When did breaking an illusion become mocking? Billions of people believe in a fleshy heaven, with sex and food. Islamic terrorists get a whole bunch of virgins when they kill themselves in an act of war. Wouldn't you like to see this illusion/delusion cleared up in the minds of those lunatics?

The wording of your title was breaking THE illusion of heaven. Not "an illusion".
The most obvious meaning of "THE illusion of heaven" is "the illusion that there is a heaven".
It implies,doesn't it, that you fancied yourself to be discrediting the whole idea of a heaven, just by pointing out that the poverty of our imaginations isn't up to describing it?
So your defence that you were merely getting at specific versions of the illusion is a little disingenuous.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Heaven in the Bible...

Not talking about that. I'm talking about the image that most people have of heaven. Reunited with loved ones, pure joy every second of eternity, doing wonderful things (though I have yet to hear of what those things are). That kind of illusion.

reply to post by Akragon

Some how I imagine a trial or something at some point, which is our judgement... in which we experience everything bad we've done to others within this incarnation... More tears!

Wouldn't this happen before entering heaven? That's my take on it anyway.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Heaven in the Bible...

Not talking about that. I'm talking about the image that most people have of heaven. Reunited with loved ones, pure joy every second of eternity, doing wonderful things (though I have yet to hear of what those things are). That kind of illusion.

I've actually wondered this same thing...

Christians... Riddle me this!

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Akragon

 

Some how I imagine a trial or something at some point, which is our judgement... in which we experience everything bad we've done to others within this incarnation... More tears!

Wouldn't this happen before entering heaven? That's my take on it anyway.

I don't believe in the traditional "heaven"... Heaven is the afterlife... its a transition from one to the other... And one overlaps the other...

Once the body passes, we return to our previous state of being... This is why I say in many of my posts... Once you pass and you're still alive... would you, or CAN you still deny God?

I don't think it would be possible

Originally posted by DISRAELI

The wording of your title was breaking THE illusion of heaven. Not "an illusion".
The most obvious meaning of "THE illusion of heaven" is "the illusion that there is a heaven".
It implies,doesn't it, that you fancied yourself to be discrediting the whole idea of a heaven, just by pointing out that the poverty of our imaginations isn't up to describing it?
So your defence that you were merely getting at specific versions of the illusion is a little disingenuous.

edit on 14-5-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

Everyone has an illusion of heaven.

Illusion: b (1) : the state or fact of being intellectually deceived or misled

If people believe there is food and sports and sex in heaven, aren't they deceiving themselves?

You want me to say there's no heaven. Hey, there's no heaven. But, IF there were a heaven, at least let's get people to put away their false illusions about it and try to come up with ideas that at least make a LITTLE sense.

reply to post by jiggerj

Then "breaking illusions ABOUT heaven" would have been a better title.
The title you actually used claims more for your thread than you are claiming for it yourself; the most obvious meaning of your title is the one that I was addressing.

Im sure each person will have a duty and not dootie as many kids say because of wreck it ralph but scientist will be scientist and so on and we can really enjoy our new bodies. Using a phone so I will make a a full post tomorrow and I recommend devine revalationns of heaven.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Then "breaking illusions ABOUT heaven" would have been a better title.
The title you actually used claims more for your thread than you are claiming for it yourself; the most obvious meaning of your title is the one that I was addressing.

edit on 14-5-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

For cripes sake, are you really going to nitpick about the freakin' title??? If I am addressing each individual that will reply, then breaking each individual's illusion of heaven is what the title means.

Enough. Now give us your illusion of heaven or go away. You have been off topic so far.

I would imagine heaven being identical to Earth, except without humans and their war and pollution. We could have had heaven on Earth, but we threw it away instead for wealth and power.

Also, pooping is very beneficial to nature, that's why fertilizer contains cow manure.

reply to post by windword


Where there is wealth, there is war. I don't want anything to with money in my next life. Unfortunately, I'm forced to use it in this one.

I see. Like many aspects of the Bible, we believe what we want to believe. What the word says is often much different than the theology box we place God inside. The heavens and the world to come are two different things. The new order of things will likely have differing physical laws than what we have now. As Genesis 1 and 2 show, there are two creations. One is paradise and the other is the refinement process to get there.

If you read this thread ( We are the Shadows we Cast ), the fact that the end of Revelation demonstrates shadows being gone hints at the upper dimensions we will rise to from this plane of existence. We lack the conceptualization to get the picture, but hints of it are all around us, hidden by nature.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Heaven in the Bible...

Not talking about that. I'm talking about the image that most people have of heaven. Reunited with loved ones, pure joy every second of eternity, doing wonderful things (though I have yet to hear of what those things are). That kind of illusion.