What are we working for?!?!

Its definitely not age discrimination, unless people in England don't really care about the value of experience. As to dropping out of college at 17

reply to post by dogstar23


Well, they obviously do...

I'm thinking sixth form college, not college as in University.

Originally posted by Gaudia
It's called slavery. There is no alternative, if you stop for a moment, you end in the streets unless you aren't paying for your place of residence.

The whole concept of "earning a living" is extremely stupid and backwards in this age.

I agree, everything should be free.

People should just work because they want to. Everyone chipping in, to build that house, or pave that road, should just be glad to have something to do.

We should have a society where we just walk into the grocery store, pick up what we need, and walk out, without having to hire tellers, and stop at cash registers, join long lineups just to get back out of the supermarket.

Actually, we're headed that way already. Many supermarkets near where I live have no tellers already. People self-checkout, scanning their own items, and putting their pay card into the slot of a machine. But, it's juist one more step to remove this requirement altogether.

I mean. When you walk into a store, the camera can capture your photo, use facial recognition to identify you, so it knows who you are. As you pick up your items, it records your selections, and you walk out the store, it then makes a list of what you took. So, the store manager will know what needs restocking.

They'll probably be an intermediate period of time where they deduct the cost of the items from your bank account. So you don't have the hassle of fiddling with cash or credit cards or bank debit cards at all. No need to walk around with a wallet. Think of the freedom. You never have to worry of running out of cash, or someone robing you on the street. There will be no more street robberies. Since, nobody will have any cash on them.

The final step is just to get rid of the banks altogether. After all, who will the bank's customers be? Nobody will visit the bank, since they don't need to take out cash. Then, what's the point of putting up a building on the street corner called "Local Bank", if nobody visits the building?

So, the end game, is people work for the joy of having something to do, and satisfaction of being productive. And people pick up the items they need from the stores without paying a dime.

We work to keep our minds off of how bad this entire economic system is for most people. We also work to provide our government with revenue.

Originally posted by BrokenCircles

What are we working for?!?!

Enough gas money to get back & forth between work and home.
Rent money in order to have a place to sleep in between shifts.
And food money so we have enough energy to make it through the work shift.

Top answer, short, sweet, but pretty much hits the nail on the head perfectly.

College is not the answer anymore so you can count yourself lucky for dropping out early because most people who do have a degree end up doing the same work as you while paying of a huge debt.

Sadly, this is true. When I started my degree it wasn't, but by the time I was done, it was.

Granted, my degree has gotten me in the door, when otherwise, may not have, but overall, I'm not making nearly enough to pay back that debt well. If I knew then, what I know now, I would have gone into a specialized trade, like plumbing or electrician, etc.

reply to post by ObservingYou


I think you need to expand on some of your statements before you will get any sympathy from me. What you wrote sounds like simple self-pity at the moment.

Why did you have five different jobs before getting your current job? Did the jobs disappear due to a bad economy or was it a case of quitting because you didn't like the jobs or were you fired?

Why did you have two apprenticeships/vocational quals?

To add salt to the wounds, I've been training a new member of staff who works on the side and was officially unemployed for two years prior to gaining this current position.

I have more brain cells than him, so to speak, why the hell is he picking up £22,000 per annum, on top of his ILLEGAL part time work?!

Nobody pays a person more than someone else simply because he is older. Is this person just doing the job that you are doing or does his job include other responsibilities? Does he have quals that you don't have that Chamber of Commerce (CoC) values?

Why is the work that he is doing "on the side" illegal? Is he doing this work during the time he is supposed to be working for the CoC. Is there some part of his employment contract that precludes him from working for someone else when he is not working for the CoC? Was he doing this work while he was receiving unemployment assistance, assuming that is not allowed?

reply to post by ObservingYou


We are working basically for Food, Shelter, Fuel and in some cases health care and / or child care.

But hold on just a minute, We also work in order to waste even more money on buying bs during the many Government fabricated holidays like the one we just recently had. Most of them are nothing more than economy boosters.

Tell me something, how many of you out there spent money that you didn't have this past Christmas?

Poor Sheople don't know any better either, because they love their families and just feel obligated by a lifetime of social brainwashing that continues to run up their credit card debt because somehow as a people we need extra holidays in order to make sure that those we love know that we care about them.

Talk about classic emotional manipulation and deception. One of the biggest profit driven swindles ever. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by SheopleNation


If you spend more money than you can afford at Christmas, or at any other time, for gifts and the like, you only have yourself to blame. Neither the government nor commercial entities are forcing you to reach into your wallet and make the purchase.

Far too many people feel the need for immediate gratification and that is hardly the fault of businesses. They merely take advantage of it.

There are also far too many young adults who think they should be living with the same quantity and quality of possessions as their parents, ignoring the fact that their parents reached that point after 25 or more years of effort.

reply to post by erwalker


I never said that I personally did anything, I was stating a fact. I also never blamed the companies who are trying to make a profit. Never suggested people were forced by anyone either, but that was still a nice apologist, condescending lecture though.

However, What I did do was lay out the truth, which is that we have way too many economy driven holidays, and that buying gifts during those holidays are just another expense that folks are working hard in order to pay for, which they shouldn't be. ~$heopleNation

Life is a game man...a game of musical chairs where someone is guaranteed to be screwed. You always gotta have your eyes peeled, cuz someone else wants your spot on that bigger comfier chair that you feel belongs to you, but actually belonged to someone else before you got it, and it didn't even belong to him either, he took it from someone else. That's life man, that's life. Sometimes people want your chair just to see what it's like to sit in it, but at the end of the day someone is always left out to dry. Just be grateful you got a chair, talk about it as if you own it, as if it is a part of you, as if you know exactly how it looks and what kind of chair it is.

reply to post by ObservingYou


What are we working for?!?!

So capitalists can make profit.

When you work you are not paid the full amount for your labour, whatever that is, you have to produce more than you are paid for in order for the owner/s to make profit.

It is known as "surplus value", the amount that is left after the worker is paid. If it's a negative the boss goes bankrupt. The higher the surplus value the more profit is made, especially if the labour is cheap and you sell in a more expensive market. Produce in China and sell in America. Two problems, is reduces jobs in America, thus reducing the financial buying power of the working class, and the profits are not used to invest in job producing industry in America. It creates institutionalized poverty for the working, and lower classes, and will eventually reduce the financial power of everyone in America.

The pendulum will swing toward China as their manufacturing creates wealth. The workers will eventually win workers rights, and decent pay, just like we got in America after many years of labour struggle. Once China's labour becomes expensive the capitalists will simply move operations to the next cheap labour market.

If the capitalist class have complete control of the worlds economy, they can easily use the power of the state, military etc., in order to manipulate economies to cause poverty and make a cheaper labour market. They make one nation super wealthy, the USA, in order to have a market to sell their cheaply made and highly marked up products. It's world wide exploitation of the working class. As soon as you become too expensive the capitalists move on to cheaper markets. So the working class never improve their lot, they suffer at the worst end of the capitalist boom and bust economic system.

reply to post by ANOK


ANOK, I respect and understand what you just layed out. However, I have found and realized that it's international capitalism that is wrecking everything, not capitalism in general. Nationally things can be more easily regulated in order to have a more equal, or somewhat equal (LMAO! I know....) system.

Anyway, I liked what you had to say my friend. We just need to find some common ground, and it's starts Nationally if jobs here at home are the real concern. Cause hey, outsourcing and slave labor is destroying employment inside The United States of America without a doubt. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by SheopleNation


I agree international capitalism is the big problem, but you can't stop that from happening.

The nature of capitalism is to grow, if it doesn't it fails. Capitalism has got to the stage that it has because that is it's nature, you can't regulate that out unfortunately.

Capitalism can do some good in it's early stages, we got the industrial revolution for example, horrible for the working class of the time, but without it we would still be living in mud huts. Even Marx said capitalism was a necessary stage but not the final goal we should be working for. We should evolve our economic systems, because if we don't we are doomed to failure, either through war or through poverty, large communities will continue to fail.

The problem is capitalism is not sustainable because there are only so much resources to make profit from, we can't expand beyond the Earths limit, even though they are trying. New markets have to be artificially created with war and other underhand tactics to create poverty. Capitalism needs poverty to work, as we are seeing now, without poverty they couldn't exploit the Chinese for cheap labour.

We need a sustainable economy that doesn't waste resources to make a minority class wealthy. So wealthy they are the ones pulling all the strings. Do we really want to leave our world in their control? If capitalism fails and we have nothing to replace it with, up chit creek right?

reply to post by SheopleNation


Don't be so sensitive. I was not referring to you specifically when I said "you". If I had been I would have mentioned you by name in my response to your comment.

While some holidays have become over-commercialized, the blame rests solely with the person who gets sucked into spending more money than they have on things they don't need.

yeah its not easy anywhere in the world, well not as easy as they make out anyway, i mean, in the ''west'' we are pretty damn comfortable compared to the bulk of the rest of the world, but that doesnt mean we dont have our own big problems. It just seems to me that the life we are told we can live, eg. work hard and be a good person and look after your family and you will have a good and prosperous life, is getting harder and harder to obtain as the years go on. I think the standard of living is much better than it may have been for many, but i feel like the middle class and bottom class have been combined to form this in the middle class, Even a couple who are career professionals can not be doing so well, which is garbage cause if you are a career professional and you've done years of study and years of experience you should have a job that pays you well enough to not struggle. Im a career professional and ive only been out of uni 3 years but my brother just got a crappy job telemarketing and he takes home only about $100 a week less than i do, but as he points out i have a sweet job and his job sucks.

Im struggling financially just to pay off my modest 2 bedroom house with a decent bit of yard, that i had to fork out a quarter of a million dollars for because the Australian real estate market is mental and you cant buy a place for under $200,000, and rent is now more expensive than buying in smaller houses! I live in whats called a regional (sort of in between country and city) area, even though we have a decent sized city (400,000) a small 2 bedroom apartment will cost about absolutely minimum $250 a week (160£ or almost equivalent $US ) and thats before you pay for any amenities like water/power/natural gas.

The cost of living in Australia has been on the increase, figures now show that on average people are having to spend 40-50% on their accomodation or housing expenses.

Something has to change, and its going to take something huge to do it.

reply to post by ObservingYou


Firstly, you're just 22. From what I read, you pull your weight. You only just worked for 5 years but you have supported yourself and in the meantime you both contributed to society and payed your taxes. Therefore, others, even less off than you, could survive. I salute you for that!

Also, you teach. You may not think much of that, but they trust you to educate an older person that earns a lot more than you do. Try to excel at it, it will both benefit you, society and last but not least that elderly gentlemen you now help to make it back to work.

You are - and I do agree with you - disgusted by the way our society seems to consist of a small percentage of "have's" and a huge population of "have not's". You can complain about it, but you could also do something about it. Don't expect miracles, don't expect to change it all in a day. But you could become member of a political party, could join the Union, could do voluntary work to help the ones even less off than you. Unions, foundations, and political parties often also offer training to sufficiently motivated members and workers. You'll pick up new skills. You will also learn how to employ these, and you will build yourself a network of new friends. And again, you will have contributed to society, but more important: you are now in control, you're no longer alone on that ship of yours that now drifts from employer to employer, only kept afloat by the will of that loney sailor to survive the tempest. Find yourself a crew, and don't expect to be the captain (yet).

Also, keep remembering. You hate these bastards that live off others hard labour, don't you? Well, don't try to become one yourself then. You need enough to lead a full and happy life, and buying loads of stuff does not help there.

My message is: you can't start to change the world until you change yourself. Do it!

Originally posted by erwalker
While some holidays have become over-commercialized, the blame rests solely with the person who gets sucked into spending more money than they have on things they don't need.

C'mon seriously? I think it's a bit unfair to blame the consumer, when we are raised in an economic system that teaches us that that is normality.

Most people are already sucked in before they are old enough to even think for themselves, by then it's too late. The only way to change it is to change how kids are educated, and through a few generations it would change.

That is one way the state does it.

Originally posted by ANOK
C'mon seriously? I think it's a bit unfair to blame the consumer, when we are raised in an economic system that teaches us that that is normality.

You instead blame something you will not be able to change - does it help you? All you can do is control your own behaviour. You clearly are aware of the problems of consumerism - don't fall for it anymore, just buy what you NEED, not what they tell you you need..

Originally posted by ForteanOrg
You instead blame something you will not be able to change - does it help you? All you can do is control your own behaviour. You clearly are aware of the problems of consumerism - don't fall for it anymore, just buy what you NEED, not what they tell you you need..

I'm not blaming anything, I am pointing out a fact.

That's fine on the individual level, but I am talking about communities, and yes we do have communities no matter how disconnected they are. The more people feel connected to their communities btw, the less likely they are to commit crime.

I haven't fallen for anything, I have nothing to do with commercial holidays other than Mothers Day, I will not deny my Mom a special day because I hate consumerism! That would be selfish, see there how it effects us personally? It's not easy to break that effect it has on people as a community.