Technology and the Singularity (VIDEO)

Originally posted by intrptr

Arms crossed, tapping foot... been saying that forever. I'm getting old. Let me know, I want to talk to it.

You have not been waiting long. My mother speaks to me of the day she heard computers were invented.

My grandmother remembered when there was no electricity in her town.

I remember when computers were a novelty and not inside any home.

There is no way any human on this planet has waited long for anything computer-related.

That's just the truth.

Not long ago I was playing Pong and marveling at its graphics...now I am playing Modern Warfare 3. I did not wait long for that at all.

MM

reply to post by Mr Mask

Not long ago I was playing Pong and marveling at its graphics...now I am playing Modern Warfare 3. I did not wait long for that at all.

From smart pong to A.I.? Always just around the corner. Just another billion for "research". It only ends up in developing newer security or attack software for the mllitary and Police State. But you keep believing in the "benevolent, feeling machine".

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by Mr Mask

 

Not long ago I was playing Pong and marveling at its graphics...now I am playing Modern Warfare 3. I did not wait long for that at all.

From smart pong to A.I.? Always just around the corner. Just another billion for "research". It only ends up in developing newer security or attack software for the mllitary and Police State. But you keep believing in the "benevolent, feeling machine".

Oh, lets be very very clear that I do not think this machine will be some sweetheart thing. I am not sure either way. Part of me thinks it will be too smart to want to hurt anything...part of me thinks it will kill us as fast as possible.

Fact remains, the advent of electricity till now was "right around the corner". And here we are.

And I don't embark on this belief by taking joyrides with nutjobs or wackos. I follow mainstream science, breaking discoveries, and have followed this subject closely since the early 80s. I am impressed with how far we are...I'm overly impressed.

Leading minds in this field can not agree, so I don't think laymen like ourselves ever will.

But...the first quantum transistor was created a handful of months ago...thats 80-180 years earlier than most predicted possible.

I sit with Nick Bostrom, Kevin Warwick, Hugo De Garis and Ray Kurzweil (along with many others) who agree this is coming very soon...maybe not as soon as you would like, but surly within the lifetime of many alive today.

Now can they be wrong? Sure...yes...they can. There is no shortage of bright folks on either side of the debate.

But, I am not alone in my opinion and I am rather pleased that those who agree with me are of high status in the realms of technology and on the front line cutting edge of discovery in the field.

I remember very well telling people that one day the "digital spider web" would connect all homes in the world with a computer based information system soon...they called me crazy at parties and in school. Many of my friends still comment today on how they used to call me nuts for obsessing about the internet and how it was going to be in all our homes soon. But here we are.

I am simply saying...I think intelligence is easy to recreate. Its just that us humans are stupid and need a lot of time before we get there.

You said "get off our high horses". I will suggest you the same when I say- "the human brain is a machine and we build machines. Nothing says we can't build a thinking machine".

And as I have stated, there has been many breakthroughs in the last 7 months alone that are huge game changers. To even assume you can stay right on this topic for long while it is changing by the hour, is a high horse in itself.

But I am fine with you being convinced. I remain unconvinced either way. My only issue is that I am confused what makes you 100% sure when some of the world's greatest computer scientists and engineers demand you are wrong.

I mean lets be honest...you said that a computer can't do something it is not programmed to do. That was true 2 years ago. Since then, many computers in lab experiments have done just that. And they are nowhere near being "sentient".

So...point being...you were not even aware that you were wrong on that level. And you assumed a self aware computer was needed to do such. But no...a very basic programming can achieve that.

It's very possible that you are wrong about the rest. Heck, we weren't supposed to break the human genome for another 200-500 years (if ever)...and well, it was done in the early 90s.

Just saying...the high horse may be you assuming the human mind is some magnificent thing that can't be created. Or...maybe you are right.

Hugs.

MM

reply to post by intrptr


Also...I don't think you really give enough credit to the fact that computers didn't exist at all within many living people's lifetime's until recently.

That's something to consider a lil deeper IMHO.

And yes...from pong-to-MW3 is an incredible feat. One I find amazing.

MM

reply to post by Mr Mask

Also...I don't think you really give enough credit to the fact that computers didn't exist at all within many living people's lifetime's until recently.

That's something to consider a lil deeper IMHO.

Everyone has one, the best there ever was...

The Human Brain.
By the way, I was involved in Silicon valley in the hardware and software development systems parade.... (crest of the wave) from the mid 70's until the mid 90's. I worked on in circuit emulators (ICE). That is the development of hardware and software systems. Tools engineers use to design computers and their programs. I would show you my resume, but you aren't hiring game testers are you.

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by Mr Mask

 

Also...I don't think you really give enough credit to the fact that computers didn't exist at all within many living people's lifetime's until recently.

That's something to consider a lil deeper IMHO.

Everyone has one, the best there ever was...

The Human Brain.
By the way, I was involved in Silicon valley in the hardware and software development systems parade.... (crest of the wave) from the mid 70's until the mid 90's. I worked on in circuit emulators (ICE). That is the development of hardware and software systems. Tools engineers use to design computers and their programs. I would show you my resume, but you aren't hiring game testers are you.

Please do not take this wrong...wait, you will understand if that is what you did in those days...anyone out of the game for more than 2 years is considered "out of the loop".

I am sure you know more than enough...but you already made claims that were impossible 20 months ago but possible now.

I mean...some of the things you said were basic back in the early 90s, but very outdated by the 2000s. Like computers not being able to perform computations they are not told to compute. I mean that was obsolete around 2004.

Fact remains, the head of Google Engineering, Ray Kurzweil, makes some pretty large arguments against everything you have stated as absolute truths of computers. Many leading engineers and programmers (and researchers in neuroscience) disagree with you loudly.

I am "not" saying you are wrong, although I strongly think you are. But I find it odd that you demand you are 100% right even when you display a loose grasp of recent leaps in the fields we are discussing.

I'm ok with that.

I'll wait and wonder...and allow both sides their room to breath. After all, that is the safest bet to make (none at all). I just wish you allowed a larger realm of possibilities than those you have gathered in a time where computer technology was in its infancy.

MM

reply to post by Mr Mask

I'll wait and wonder...and allow both sides their room to breath.

Just don't hold your breath.

Although speed and capacity have increased, a computer is sill based on fundamentals that haven't changed. In the most basic sense, a computer is a switch. On and off or 1's and 0's. Obsoletism is a function of the "newest" number crunchers that can handle ever larger numbers making it possible to do tremendously complex algorithms like figure the orbital mechanics to sending a probe to Pluto, for instance (on the way).

As this complexity increases it does become possible to compute more functions at once and surely even become so "organized' as to "emulate" the human mind. This does not make it "aware". No amount of processing ability can ever do that.

Thats why they call this elusive dream "A.I.". Even if they do achieve some higher form of intelligence, it will still only be artificial. The real thing is the human mind, already in existence. Besides intelligence isn't necessarily aware either. As defined it is really just an ability to consider all possibilities. Like a Drone, ICBM or airplane "auto pilot".

You go right ahead and "believe" in something that doesn't exist. You can believe in Mickey Mouse too, if you like. He is real enough. On TV anyway.

I prefer to believe in what is real. Thanks for the conversation, I'm out.

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by fuserleer

 

I think you'll be surprised just how close this is actually.

Arms crossed, tapping foot... been saying that forever. I'm getting old. Let me know, I want to talk to it. They won't allow that though. Private sector access, bah. They'll probably keep it a secret. Surely its primary functions would center around how to conquer and keep control of the whole planet (which will be its highest programmed priority).

Well yeah, they have been saying that for a while, but the research has been in the wrong places IMO. But I'll let you know when I get word, I'm going to attempt to schedule another catchup with him as a few folk around here have requested more info if possible.

As for the private sector, well, I don't believe there's any stock holders or anything to keep happy, it's all headed up by one guy with deep pockets and a some futurist vision. I'm sure there will be some elements that are kept just for them, after all, the guy running the show has got to recoup his investment, but I got the impression that most of this will be released into the wild as a service enabler for regular Joe to use.

My buddy has been there nearly 5 years I think, on a damn good salary, so that alone speaks volumes to me.

Originally posted by intrptr

Just don't hold your breath.

I think I have stated clearly I am not. Many times.

Although speed and capacity have increased, a computer is sill based on fundamentals that haven't changed. In the most basic sense, a computer is a switch. On and off or 1's and 0's.

Sigh...I'm trying to be nice here. Look, this subject is one I overly focus on. I see you have lost interest and grasp on it around the early 80s.

It has changed. As of a handful of months ago. With the creation of the quantum transistor. Yes, I am a laymen, but any teenager these days "gets" your ideas that you are sharing. But you have time and time again said things that are "100% true" yet I link you to where you are "now wrong and overly outdated".

Yes...I'm fully aware of binary switches and how a two pin can only be 1 or 0, yes or no, red or blue, up or down, on or off....making "processing" take time. With the recent breakthrough and advent of the quantum transistor, there is a brave new world of "all possibilities of 1-0" at once. No processing time.

In other words my dear man...within 20 years, a computer that can do all calculations/computations that all computers in the history of computers have ever done- may be able to be done instantly with no processing time.

A little different than your "late 70s ideas"...no?

Obsoletism is a function of the "newest" number crunchers that can handle ever larger numbers making it possible to do tremendously complex algorithms like figure the orbital mechanics to sending a probe to Pluto, for instance (on the way).

Ok...ya...I listen to about 60+ hours worth of this every year...so? What's that have to do with many of the leading minds in computer sciences saying you are wrong?

As this complexity increases it does become possible to compute more functions at once and surely even become so "organized' as to "emulate" the human mind. This does not make it "aware". No amount of processing ability can ever do that.

Oh? Then why does our mind do such? After all, its just a processing machine.

Thats why they call this elusive dream "A.I.". Even if they do achieve some higher form of intelligence, it will still only be artificial. The real thing is the human mind, already in existence.

I see...so wait...you worked in computers a couple decades ago, and now its impossible now that you are tired of waiting? lol. I find that funny. Sorry it don't work that way. Just like I showed you how wrong you are about many of the things you said were "impossible to ever be done by computers" (showing that its already achieved), I am assuming you are also uninformed, wrong and stuck on decades old paradigms on this as well.

Besides intelligence isn't necessarily aware either. As defined it is really just an ability to consider all possibilities. Like a Drone, ICBM or airplane "auto pilot".

Wait...that is what I told you 2 pages ago, but you got huffy and rude and talked down to me like I was a child and you were educated. lol. I told you we are pattern machines and possibly (probably) not really aware. And you jumped through logic hoops to deny me that.

But I see you embrace the truth easier when it suits you. Again, I feel bad teaching you this stuff...since yknow, you are so "educated" on the matter. But ya...like you just said, the human brain is just a machine that considers possibilities.

Too bad your ego and lack of information fails to allow you to consider the one I suggest as "nothing more than possible".

You go right ahead and "believe" in something that doesn't exist. You can believe in Mickey Mouse too, if you like. He is real enough. On TV anyway.

I think I've shown you that most of what you said will "never exist" in computers, already does.

I can't wait until you see A.I.

I prefer to believe in what is real. Thanks for the conversation, I'm out.

Ya...that's fine. You were getting a tad snippy and rude anyways. Have fun out there. As for believing what is real, I hope you changed some of your beliefs from reading here. Since yknow, you showed you are more than a decade behind and out of the loop.

Hardly worth getting rude over...specially when its clear you don't follow this subject very closely.

PS- NOTE that I have said I am aware of both sides of the argument. You didn't touch the con-side to A.I. There is many creditable minds against the possibility. You didn't quote, mimic or refer to any of their arguments. You didn't bring up a single good argument at all. And there are many in the field. Ones I couldn't begin to argue with. Maybe you need to stop assuming you learned it all in the 80s...and start looking a bit closer to now.

You have gotten rude, shared false and outdated information, failed to keep up with computer advances, and speak about computers as if they are still the things of the early 80s. I am overly glad to say that I am not stuck in that realm of thought.

I don't believe in Mickey Mouse, nor do I watch TV. But I do listen to countless hours of "up to date lectures and interviews" from labs, universities and offices of the world's leading minds on these subjects and many more. I suggest you start paying more attention. After all, its a sad day when a laymen fool like myself knows more about technological advances in the field you are so educated in, than you do.

Peace...enjoy being "out"...it was fun showing you how wrong you are at every turn.

Hugs.

MM

reply to post by fuserleer


I personally would love to hear more about your friend's research, progress and ideas. So, if you do talk to him any time soon (or later) I hope you post about it.


Thanks for posting here and sharing your thoughts!

MM

Nice Video, I enjoyed the experimental format and thanking your subscribers half way through was a nice touch!

I have quite a few different idea's about what might happen including some bizarre ones like SLIders fighting the machines. Except the SLIders will be more powerful by then and know how to control their technokinesis. A SLIder is someone who experiences Street Light Interference (SLI).

I'm hoping that as we reach a technological singularity we may also reach a biological or conscious singularity, meaning we evolve beyond the need for technology. This could happen coincidently but more likely through technology that pushes us into the next step in our evolution.

Originally posted by Eonnn
Nice Video, I enjoyed the experimental format and thanking your subscribers half way through was a nice touch!

I have quite a few different idea's about what might happen including some bizarre ones like SLIders fighting the machines. Except the SLIders will be more powerful by then and know how to control their technokinesis. A SLIder is someone who experiences Street Light Interference (SLI).

I'm hoping that as we reach a technological singularity we may also reach a biological or conscious singularity, meaning we evolve beyond the need for technology. This could happen coincidently but more likely through technology that pushes us into the next step in our evolution.

Thank you for the kind review of my video!

Anyways, I will say that a war between man and machines is Hugo De Garis' nightmare come true and he speaks overly about it happening. Tho I don't really think that will happen myself, I don't say it 100% won't.

A biological/consciousness singularity? I can almost see that happening. Again, I wouldn't bet the farm on it. But with genetic sciences increasing as they are- Its not impossible for me to assume somewhere in the near future we would build humans with heightened consciousness or increased intelligence.

I actually think it won't be long before we start breeding super humans- Illegally and possibly unethically.


But what I think is most likely is the human race dying off or being blown up by stupidity first. I really do suspect that is our near future.

But even then, I would guess that enough of us would survive to continue on. But would we be reduced to cave folk or keep our technology as a surviving civilization? I dunno.

THANK YOU for posting and watching!

If the robots attack I will join this SLIder group...if you join with me.

MM

Originally posted by Mr Mask
It does remind me of the many folks who always say- "I dunno why you think of these subjects, its not like anyone will ever know".

Because you have to think about something, and what good is the brain if you won't let it take a leap into the "what if?"

Originally posted by BobM88

Originally posted by Mr Mask
It does remind me of the many folks who always say- "I dunno why you think of these subjects, its not like anyone will ever know".

Because you have to think about something, and what good is the brain if you won't let it take a leap into the "what if?"

We seem to have the same views on these sort of things! lol.

Thanks for finding this vid and watching it.

I will get you some links within the next few days, check your u2u box. You will soon have a bunch of mind blowing hours sent to you for your free-brain time.

MM

reply to post by intrptr


Thats what they said about monkeys and here we are. So Mr. Sifolis, it will be interesting to see how your method of education evolves.

reply to post by Emeraldous


lol@MR SIFOLIS. Hugs for that.

And even tho my channel is not dedicated to educational vids, I will continue to deliver something like that time to time. People seem to enjoy weird topics talked about in weird voices by a weird guy. So...yknow, I'll keep that up.

And yes...if monkey brains can reach a singularity...I assume so can computer ones.

Hugs and thanks for watching!

MM (MR SIFF).