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Bartender Question

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posted on May, 12 2013 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


my servers have to be taught how to polish a fork because my town exports talent. 30 some odd years of horrible employment and economy in the region was not attractive. Especially when the available work is roughnecking. So all our best/brightest left town.

Like i said....you are making a lot of presumptions to judge the business I am operating. Just about every presumption you make is wrong. Including our average server age (in the 20's, but on the upper end due to the number of 40+ year olds we have).

The biggest mistake in what you just said was that I am rpping off anyone. I am the CFO. My salary is based on a contract. My servers, however, came to this agreement with their bartenders. They are free to renegotiate it when they want. The implications are that the bartender may service them a little less. If we catch it, we stop it...but the notions of teamwork keep these agreements in place.

Now....enough with your judgemental, accusatory dialogue. It isn't "discussion", no matter how you try to paint it. Because you are wrongwrongwrong on just about everything you say. And I am honestly not going to tell you how you are wrong other than to say you are just making crap up based on your own experiences or imagination.




posted on May, 12 2013 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by windword
 


my servers have to be taught how to polish a fork because my town exports talent. 30 some odd years of horrible employment and economy in the region was not attractive. Especially when the available work is roughnecking. So all our best/brightest left town.


Well, a well "rounded" waiter or waitress over the age of 40 isn't exactly "the best/brightest" now are they? But, they do know how to polish a fork.


Like i said....you are making a lot of presumptions to judge the business I am operating. Just about every presumption you make is wrong. Including our average server age (in the 20's, but on the upper end due to the number of 40+ year olds we have).


So, I'm right. The majority of your servers are in their 20's.


The biggest mistake in what you just said was that I am rpping off anyone. I am the CFO. My salary is based on a contract.


I never said that YOU were ripping anyone off. I said that you're taking advantage of them.


My servers, however, came to this agreement with their bartenders. They are free to renegotiate it when they want. The implications are that the bartender may service them a little less. If we catch it, we stop it...but the notions of teamwork keep these agreements in place.


Your inexperienced servers, who just starting working there New Years Eve, came to this agreement with savvy bartenders? I've seen what happens to servers who initiate a "renegotiation".


Now....enough with your judgemental, accusatory dialogue. It isn't "discussion", no matter how you try to paint it. Because you are wrongwrongwrong on just about everything you say. And I am honestly not going to tell you how you are wrong other than to say you are just making crap up based on your own experiences or imagination.


35 plus years of experience. I've done it all too, cook and prep, wash dishes, cashier, bartending, bookkeeping, sales and banquets, remote catering, you name, I've done it. I've waited on 4 American Presidents during my tenure with Hyatt Regency.

I know what I'm talking about.






edit on 12-5-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2013 @ 02:04 AM
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You need to leave it up to them. I've bartended for almost a decade, from night clubs to upscale cigar bars and lounges. Don't set too many rules and leave it up to the servers to tip you what they want -- most are nice and will give generously.

Don't forget that they also have to tip the kitchen and sometimes the hostesses. You are the bartender and it is your job to help out the rest of the house staff, don't milk them or they will resent you.



posted on May, 13 2013 @ 02:23 AM
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Originally posted by Hopechest
I'm leaning towards 5 or 10% of bar sales.

If they have 500 dollars in liquor sales I figure that would be a fair rate since I am producing the product. Yes they sell it and present it but I do the creation of it.

However, since the majority of our sales will probably be wine, all I do is pull the bottle for them so that rate may be a bit high.



Do you even know what that means? I'd never work for you.

You wanna take 5-10% of bar sales, when they might make 15% on it. That means you expect $50 in tips if you make them $500 in drinks. At most you should get $10 per server.

Make your money the same way they do, from your customers.



posted on May, 13 2013 @ 02:28 AM
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Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Hopechest
 





Servers only need to tip out their bussers and the bartender. Looking at the overall picture of a dinner for two that a server handles we will probably see a check of 400.00.


Considering the prices, a dinner for two at $400, one would think that this restaurant would hire qualified and experienced servers.


EDIT:



Servers only need to tip out their bussers and the bartender. Looking at the overall picture of a dinner for two that a server handles we will probably see a check of 400.00. Considering almost half of that should be bar related items and their tip would be...oh say....60.00.....how much of that should I be entitled to.


Your asking them for 30 percent of their tip! That's too high, in my opinion.
edit on 12-5-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)


That's why I made this thread.

How about 5% of their bar sales?
edit on 12-5-2013 by Hopechest because: (no reason given)


Try 1-2%. Anything more than that is greedy.

If they get 12% tips on bar sales and you take 2%, you just took 16% of their tips. Anything more than that and you're ripping them off.



posted on May, 13 2013 @ 04:37 AM
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In the UK, waiters and bartenders assume any tips they receive should be accepted with the upmost gratitude, these 5, 10 and 15% tips on sales are ludicrous to say the least!

Myself and 4 others dined out at a Chinese restuarant last weekend and between us we spent a little over £100 ($150ish....) and guess what, we paid the bill as specified on the receipt, and didnt leave a single tip, not even £1. Why you may ask? Was the food and beer poor? Nope, quite the opposite. Was the waiter rude? far from it.

We regularly visit this restuarant and as 'regular' customers we believe we should be ones taking advantage of the situation....and not the company. They should be pleased we spend money their in the first place.



posted on May, 13 2013 @ 07:52 AM
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reply to post by windword
 




Fine. you're right. there is no other way to do it than your way. and you can see all sides of any situation, even when you are not familiar with it.

You should be CEO of GE or something.



posted on May, 13 2013 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 



Again, this isn't about you or me being right. It's about being fair. You keep defending your company's policy of requiring 10% of bar sales by insulting your servers, who can't polish a fork without direction.

You say that you can't find qualified servers and MUST hire inexperienced 20 something year olds, and because of their ineptitude they should pay their bartenders more than half of their tips. Apparently, you ARE able to find qualified bartenders. If your price point and quality of food and atmosphere is what you claim, and your servers are making the sales that you claim, there are unemployed yet qualified servers would relocate for a job like your describing, but rest assured, they would seek to "renegotiate" that tip out policy.

This disparity of pay and respect seems to be standard practice and "right" in your mind. But, if you were really concerned about your employees, your customers and your business you would institute a training program so that your servers could meet a standard of industry equality. But you probably have too high of a turnover to justify the cost of training and retaining qualified employees.

While your bartenders are making bank off the sweat of their servers, you've stated that if a server is unhappy with the "teamwork" terms of your establishment, they should seek employment outside of sales.

I would never work for you, so sleep well tonight.



edit on 13-5-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2013 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by windword
 


Very well. Your judgement really hurts me. Especially being based on all that made up baloney you just made up and said.
edit on 13-5-2013 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2013 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Typical. You can't justify your policy of allowing your bar staff to exploit your servers, so you resort to emotional pleas and personal attacks.

It's easy to see how your servers would be treated should any one of them mention the possibility of "renegotiation" of the terms of their required bar tip out.



posted on May, 13 2013 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


NO personal attack. Like i said, i have repeatedly tried to tell you that you are incorrect in just about every assumption you have iterated. Yet you keep making those assumptions, while ignoring things I have said, to paint your own picture.

As if you have something to prove.

You don't know me, nor the ops i work for. Yet you have harsh judgements from your armchair position.

Yet you accuse me of personal attacks?

No. I have just told you to back off. I can justify everything I do. I just do not think it relevant (nor proper, as some of it would betray private planning with my peers).

Now, you can carry on your own little pissing match with yourself. If your compulsion to act like that is so great that you have to keep going, fine. Take your last word. Have two. It matters not, and will add no more truth to this discussion.

Besides, and like i have said (despite your lack of understanding): the tip out procedure was left to our employees to determine on their own. They handle it on their own. They report their net tips at the end of night (via various technological and manual steps). It is all them. I just make up any difference required under FLSA (which does not happen, ever).
edit on 13-5-2013 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2013 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 





No. I have just told you to back off. I can justify everything I do. I just do not think it relevant (nor proper, as some of it would betray private planning with my peers).


I think I know the "peers" to which you refer, the self serving, greedy lobby of the National Restaurant Association who successfully lobbied and are exempt, in perpetuity, from minimum wage laws by Congress, and are continualy looking for ways to exclude their employees from medical benefits and sick leave benefits.




posted on May, 13 2013 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


No, we provide all manner of insurance. Our LTD and Life Insurance is 100% employer paid. All others....we pay 80% of the cost, the employee pays 20%. I opted out due to my wife having a state job with better pricing. No other restaurant within 100 miles pays any portion of insurance.

We are independant, and not affiliated with any associations. All our servers are paid at least twice the market standard as a base wage. All employees, myself included, get 1 week/year of paid leave. After 3 years, it moves to 2 weeks. Missed time is typically made up at one of the resorts other outlets. When you work out of your department, you get paid the wage of the department you work in. Meaning they actually benefit by working for a higher hourly wage. We are very good to our folks by any standards.

ONce again, you are wrong with your assumptions. Do you ever tire of punching yourself in the face?
edit on 13-5-2013 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2013 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by Hopechest
 


Call me crazy, but anybody who'd spend $500 on a bottle of wine probably needs to just be dragged outside and shot in the head, as there is obviously nothing working in it anyhow.

I know it's cynical, but it just really irks me. I could win the frickin' Powerball of over $300 million, and I think I'd be pretty sick in the head before dropping 5 bills on a drink. Crazy world we live in.



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 04:11 PM
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I got a "tip" for you: How about not being greedy, and not elevating yourself above your co-workers as if you are somehow better or more intelligent than they are?

Did it ever occur to you that they're letting you decide this to see if you are a decent human being and a team player? No, probably not. You're too busy trying to see how much is going to go from the server's hands into your wallet.

This whole thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Good luck with your job being a snooty wine server, you're gonna need it.



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