Pregnant Mom Of 4 Sentenced To Prison For Refusing To Serve In Iraq

and this is the reason why you don't allow women into combat roles.

Originally posted by mrbeardo42
reply to post by Reaper2137

 

Okay, I really want to know your reasoning behind this!

I understand that deserting your fellow conscripts is not a good thing to do. But signature or no signature, to continue to follow a cause which no longer has the same context as you were originally told is the same as nazi soldiers in prison camps "Just following orders", not in such an extreme manor, but it's the same fundamental reasoning.

You need to understand, they signed up in faith that they would be fighting to protect their families, friends and children, not the Commercial interests of Congress.

Name just one Iraqi Terrorist attack within the USA in the last ten years. If Iraq came to America as a superior power and kept battling and bombing Americans despite already killing a dictator who kills it's own people (imagining America was run by Saddam Hussein), wouldn't you be just a little upset that families are not being also protected and compensated by invaders who are supposed to be there to prevent further bloodshed against it's own innocent inhabitants?

Or are you just writing them all off as potential terrorists and combatants?

Remember Independence Day, and what it means.

edit on 12/5/13 by mrbeardo42 because: typo

I think you misunderstand me, she could have done a dozen different things to avoid going to Iraq. She would not have be deployed in her current state either way. The military would have waited until about 2-3 months after she had her child. Than deployed her, in the mean time, she could have talk to the Military doc's or requested a transfer to a different area of operations. Kuwait, Afghanistan. Giving them, a heads up instead of running would have really helped her.

Many people have the same problem she did, but you don't hear about them, because the fallowed the chain of command, Military law, and worked out a deal. In other words its not what her feelings about Iraq its how she expressed them.

If I where an Officer, which I'm not, in a earlier post I mentioned lower enlisted, to me that meant any one E-4 or below. When A soldier came to me with a problem, and it was legitimate problem, I would do any thing I could to help them. In such a case, she can as for a combat reassignment or a reassignment, based on the fact that she had already served and now had a larger family to care for. 9 times out of 10 They would have accommodated her.

Her problem tho, to be frank, was she was probably used as an example. As I posted earlier, to many women used her issue to get out of deployment, some who never even did a single tour. So she was just the unlucky one command decided to place the boot on.

“She was just petrified,” Rivera explained. “She was crying, but there was no sound, just tears flowing out of her eyes. She was shaking."

I'm not sure how she did not know that this was the reality she was entering going to Iraq. I have had nightmares about it and I have never been anywhere near Iraq. The fact that she is a mother would make it even more distressing, but how could she not have realized what she was going to face?

Regardless, if she wasn't prepared for the horrifying reality, I can certainly understand why she wouldn't want to go back. It must have been a major, life changing shock for her, if she somehow wasn't expecting it.

Originally posted by Reaper2137
reply to post by evelblood

 

My first tour I did convoy security, and foot patrols. also I've never been fat a day in my life. Roflmao, your comebacks are getting weaker and weaker. Still, you still don't type or act like you have ever served a day in your life.

I fail to see your arguments because they simply make no sense! Type/act like i served in the military???? Huh? So people that serve in the military all type/act in a similar manner? Good Grief meng! You do realize that many people that participate on forums don't act the same way irl right?! I'm just glad you're no longer a police officer we have enough problems with them already.

I don't see the issue here.

The PFC went AWOL to avoid deploying.

AWOL is AWOL.

Originally posted by Recouper


I'm not sure how she did not know that this was the reality she was entering going to Iraq. I have had nightmares about it and I have never been anywhere near Iraq.

No doubt look what combat did to Reaper some people should have never signed up.

So here is a Youtube breakdown

(any criticism welcome)


Obama, He Promised:





It never Happened



Al- Who?



And who started all this?



But... what? They Don't Exist?

Your soul is mine if you just sign the contract (even your baby's)

I think she should be allowed to deliver the baby at home and after when the baby is 1 year old, then she should serve 10 months behind bars.

If I was in the military and I saw my country going at war for the wrong reasons, and my own conscience tells me that I won't kill 1 person / support this, I would do that.
I'm not a slave. Better in prison then there, feeling really bad helping this madness.

The most scary part from 9-11 for me, when it was live on tv was; what will the US do because of this? It was about as scary as I was afraid of (and stupid).

Oh and keep in mind, obama said himself in 2007 "There is no militray solution to Iraq"
See first video in my last post or here www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by evelblood

Originally posted by Reaper2137
reply to post by evelblood

 

My first tour I did convoy security, and foot patrols. also I've never been fat a day in my life. Roflmao, your comebacks are getting weaker and weaker. Still, you still don't type or act like you have ever served a day in your life.

I fail to see your arguments because they simply make no sense! Type/act like i served in the military???? Huh? So people that serve in the military all type/act in a similar manner? Good Grief meng! You do realize that many people that participate on forums don't act the same way irl right?! I'm just glad you're no longer a police officer we have enough problems with them already.

My Argument, you failed to see because you don't wish to see it. It classes with your warped sense of the world. I told you what I would do in the Military. Which shows you have never served, we take class on how to act, including on how our activity's online can reflect on us as soldiers. I just pointed out, that If you where a soldier under me, I would have you discharged.

In my world, I.E the Army, Honor, Integrity, Duty. Reflect every thing we do. We can have personal opinions but must be aware that, being in the Military those Opinions can come back to bite us in the ass. Tell people on a forum, that a Combat vet, who served, needs to die in prison. Reflects bad on you. In real life, you may be a pro-Bono Lawyer who feeds homeless kids on the weekend and a model American.

But when you say things like you did, you come off as an uncaring asshat,who would deal punishment out of proportion to her crime. I dealt with you as I would a soldier, If I came off harsh, its because you don't know what she went through on her first tour. Women are allow in combat now.

What she did was wrong, but she is still a vet, I just hope, that for her family's sake the Military, will still give her a less than honorable discharge, that away she can still get help, and money for her P.T.S.D

I was injured when I was in Iraq, so I know how bad the system when you get back can screw with you, and I'm big enough to admit, when I may have overreached, as such I'm sorry, If I offended you. I tend to hold others to a higher standard. Than maybe I should have. I drove, an LMTV, or an ASV when I was hurt. I still wish every day, that I could still be in the Military, its what I did and was good at.

I started as 92Y10 Unit supply, Than switched in house to Armorer, and when my first contract was up, I switched MOS's to 31B Military Police, I choose to be a Combat MP. If that helps, its not Law and Order, Combat MP's do foot patrols, VIP transport, door kicking, Convoy security, and a myriad of other jobs. Yet in the Rear with the gear, never applied to me while I was over there.

Originally posted by Reaper2137

Originally posted by evelblood

Originally posted by Reaper2137
reply to post by evelblood

 

My first tour I did convoy security, and foot patrols. also I've never been fat a day in my life. Roflmao, your comebacks are getting weaker and weaker. Still, you still don't type or act like you have ever served a day in your life.

I fail to see your arguments because they simply make no sense! Type/act like i served in the military???? Huh? So people that serve in the military all type/act in a similar manner? Good Grief meng! You do realize that many people that participate on forums don't act the same way irl right?! I'm just glad you're no longer a police officer we have enough problems with them already.

My Argument, you failed to see because you don't wish to see it. It classes with your warped sense of the world. I told you what I would do in the Military. Which shows you have never served, we take class on how to act, including on how our activity's online can reflect on us as soldiers. I just pointed out, that If you where a soldier under me, I would have you discharged.

In my world, I.E the Army, Honor, Integrity, Duty. Reflect every thing we do. We can have personal opinions but must be aware that, being in the Military those Opinions can come back to bite us in the ass. Tell people on a forum, that a Combat vet, who served, needs to die in prison. Reflects bad on you. In real life, you may be a pro-Bono Lawyer who feeds homeless kids on the weekend and a model American.

But when you say things like you did, you come off as an uncaring asshat,who would deal punishment out of proportion to her crime. I dealt with you as I would a soldier, If I came off harsh, its because you don't know what she went through on her first tour. Women are allow in combat now.

What she did was wrong, but she is still a vet, I just hope, that for her family's sake the Military, will still give her a less than honorable discharge, that away she can still get help, and money for her P.T.S.D

I was injured when I was in Iraq, so I know how bad the system when you get back can screw with you, and I'm big enough to admit, when I may have overreached, as such I'm sorry, If I offended you. I tend to hold others to a higher standard. Than maybe I should have. I drove, an LMTV, or an ASV when I was hurt. I still wish every day, that I could still be in the Military, its what I did and was good at.

I started as 92Y10 Unit supply, Than switched in house to Armorer, and when my first contract was up, I switched MOS's to 31B Military Police, I choose to be a Combat MP. If that helps, its not Law and Order, Combat MP's do foot patrols, VIP transport, door kicking, Convoy security, and a myriad of other jobs. Yet in the Rear with the gear, never applied to me while I was over there.

You do realize that speaking to him is futile.

Glad you served. It's not for everyone.

reply to post by PLASIFISK


I like to say at least at the end of the day I tried and diplomacy was at least attempted. I enjoyed it.

Originally posted by Reaper2137

I think you misunderstand me, she could have done a dozen different things to avoid going to Iraq. She would not have be deployed in her current state either way. The military would have waited until about 2-3 months after she had her child.

She was not in a state. She's pregnant now, in 2013. She was not pregnant in 2007, when she deserted. She probably could have gotten pregnant to get out of her deployment--it appears she has no problems conceiving--but she was uncharacteristically without child when she did her run for the border.

Damn the military and damn the troops.

This is exactly why war is stupid and no sane person would ever join the military.

reply to post by FurvusRexCaeli


Ah, I over looked that, than It would seem, that some one, has Politically charged the Title to garner sympathy for the wretch. Than I should say, she got over real light, considering, that she should have gotten charged, with desertion in war time, dereliction of duty, conduct unbecoming, as well as absent with out leave.

Originally posted by DaTroof
Damn the military and damn the troops.

This is exactly why war is stupid and no sane person would ever join the military.

Are you saying people should not honor contracts they signed? She knew what she was getting into.

reply to post by Reaper2137

Excellent reply there!

Thanks for taking the time to explain!

I guess the real problem is that some people expect to fight for the Armed Forces in a defensive stance, and other Offensive side, and some just do it because they just want to be both. I am not saying either is good or bad, but I suppose it brings to mind the idea of having the choice to sign up to only to being deployed in defensive positions or offensive/both, then there is strategical with many different types of settlements and frontlines.

But with protocol aside...

Maybe some women should be given the opportunity to sign a clause or agreement concerning the notion that they may plan to have children within a certain time scale in the future, and mutually assign fellow conscripts or reserves to replace them in times of war or conflict, and cases where urgent maternity is needed (for children in need and disabled/special needs children, or children with no immediate family to take over care.

This is what could, and does, happen:

(Slight Tangent)

We don't want our children growing up without their true still living parents in their most important years, with the fear of them dying every day, being alienated from any kind of bond needed for growing up and having unconditional love as they learn right and wrong without ending up a young convicted criminal.

Youth society etiquette and mutual respect for varying races, traditions, personal beleifs, is settle by violence, bullying, trollling, and on the most part "humourised".

You can blame the parents,
but lets face it, most parents are made way too busy to bond fully with children, out of the house and out shopping, paying bills, settling debts, having to work so hard (mostly underpaid) for their children to be fed, educated, protected, entertained, medicated, and kept up to day with expensive electronics, Youth today is a wild transition to that of the last 70 years. Even housewives with kids are overwhelmed these days with budgeting and planning for the future, and trying to keep everyone happy. single parents are even worse off than ever before too, causing child poverty that is likely never to diminish for an entire generation.

You can blame the internet,
for it's uncenscored exposure influencing innocent children who do not know better and receive most of their education online (let's face it, life skills, economic survival, and parenting skills aren't really a priority at school these days)

You can blame the banks
Well, considering this, you could be right: The Secret of Oz (Youtube Movie)

I could go on but all I know is that people are too scared in their minds to believe that they are being fooled, and that they are being exploited, and also too scared to admit that they are to any authority, and people are also too scared to ask for help, because they may be branded or excluded, punished by example, criticized, ridiculed.

Why do people wait for something to be a headline before they speak out?

Thank God for ATS!

reply to post by mrbeardo42


Thank you, but as was just pointed out to me, when she first ran she was not pregnant. Which to me changed the whole meaning of the article to me. What do you think of that I wonder does it change your stance, that she broke the law, ran, than while on the lamb, knowing that sooner or later, she would be deported. Decided to have another child.?

When you mention contracts, it makes me think of all those innocent Death Star Contractors...

We live in an age of contacts that are not ever read properly when signed. Well look at the size of them these days. And that is how America and Europe got in to such a huge economic mess beginning with the 1980s!

Nowadays it seems Banks, Money and Law and Pandemic Businesses are best friends