Pregnant Mom Of 4 Sentenced To Prison For Refusing To Serve In Iraq

(made a search and didn't find this posted)

“I had a huge awakening seeing the war as it truly is: people losing their lives for greed of a nation, and the effects on the soldiers who come back with new problems such as nightmares, anxieties, depression, anger, alcohol abuse, missing limbs and scars from burns. Some don’t come back at all.”

Rivera was troubled by a two-year-old Iraqi girl who came to the base with her family to claim compensation after a bombing by US forces. “She was just petrified,” Rivera explained. “She was crying, but there was no sound, just tears flowing out of her eyes. She was shaking. I have no idea what had happened in her little life. All I know is I wasn’t seeing her: I was seeing my own little girl. I could imagine my daughter being one of those kids throwing rocks at soldiers, because maybe someone she loved had been killed. That Iraqi girl haunts my soul.”

Link

I don't know which comment I could make, this is just disgusting, and stupid, and inhumane and stupid again. Surely when rules are stupid, there should be a way to change them. How is war supposed to stop with these rules and ideologies that lead to these rules, when will we learn as a species ?

yep, the goal is to not hurt another person....we're all related on the ground level in life......all around the world.

Originally posted by gosseyn
(made a search and didn't find this posted)

“I had a huge awakening seeing the war as it truly is: people losing their lives for greed of a nation, and the effects on the soldiers who come back with new problems such as nightmares, anxieties, depression, anger, alcohol abuse, missing limbs and scars from burns. Some don’t come back at all.”

Rivera was troubled by a two-year-old Iraqi girl who came to the base with her family to claim compensation after a bombing by US forces. “She was just petrified,” Rivera explained. “She was crying, but there was no sound, just tears flowing out of her eyes. She was shaking. I have no idea what had happened in her little life. All I know is I wasn’t seeing her: I was seeing my own little girl. I could imagine my daughter being one of those kids throwing rocks at soldiers, because maybe someone she loved had been killed. That Iraqi girl haunts my soul.”

Link

I can see both sides to this.

Thing is she is a volenteer. You sign up to the armed forces willing to do what the politican decide. If you dont like it dont sign up.

Now I get some asigments are sucky but you cant just put your gun down and desert that creates a dangrous situation.

On the otherside if you get what you feel is a moraly wrong order then should you refuse it because otherwise you get tragedys like the Mai Lai massacre.....

Its a difficult one.

I don't know which comment I could make, this is just disgusting, and stupid, and inhumane and stupid again. Surely when rules are stupid, there should be a way to change them. How is war supposed to stop with these rules and ideologies that lead to these rules, when will we learn as a species ?

reply to post by gosseyn


What this woman did was abandon her oath and the other mothers and fathers serving their country. Last I checked, you voluntarily sign your life over to Uncle Sam.

The sentence was justified.

What she should have done is to turn her self pity into pride. That she is protecting millions upon millions of baby girls. No, she abandoned her oath to protect the 310 million souls to the best of her ability.

I guess the children of this country didn't matter much, the ones she is protecting or rather was until just abandoned them.

Well, people may not like what I have to say on this, but I don't really care. The fact of the matter is, she signed a contract. It's her own fault that she didn't know the policies, not the chaplain's for not telling her. Just for the heck of it, I googled this phrase: "I'm pregnant in the usmc do I have to deploy". I found my answer on the very first page. She could have too. The deployment would be deferred until 6 months post-delivery.

This woman did the wrong thing, and I feel that she deserves her punishment. She essentially ran away from her contract, and that's wrong. You don't just sign a contract and then abandon it, for any reason. The military would have worked with her, had she gone through the appropriate channels I feel that she would have found an acceptable resolution. Now, she gets to have her baby behind bars.

For the record, I am a mother, against the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan, AND my husband and stepdaughter are both Marines.

I know a few britz who have gone out there. All of them hate the war and think the politicans are wankers but they willing signed up and would'nt think for a minute to desert. To them its part of the job and if you really dont like you quit after your enlistment ends.

This "pregnant mother of 4" joined the army during the middle of the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts solely for financial gain and then went AWOL rather than deploy a second time. She was sentenced to prison for going AWOL, not for refusing to deploy. She got the deserved punishment and should do her time and get on with her life. I have no sympathy for her.

Sorry but I think women is a complete moron. She has 4 kids and thought the smart thing to do would be volunteering for tours in Iraq?, is she completely insane?. Nice moral compass she has there.

post removed because the user was engaged in partisan political trolling

reply to post by crazyewok


I see your point (and also see both sides), and agree with it to an extent.

However, a soldier is there to defend the country and the Constitution, whether a volunteer or not. When the "orders," "directives," or ends that the politicians decide become contrary to those principles (such as the Iraq war and the continued occupation), regardless of it's "I'm just following orders, sir," then I would say that's a dang good reason when disobedience is justified.

A slippery slope, though, because people can claim "moral objection" after the fact to almost anything, but as my point stands, when the orders or intent is contrary to the principles in which the military is supposed to operate, just as one should not enforce unjust laws.

Unjust orders should not be obeys.

Perhaps, then, one should take the punishment in full stride? I don't know.

Should this woman have been sentenced to prison? IMO, no.

It's an all-volunteer service. She wasn't drafted. She signed a contract. The fact that she is a "mother of four" is irrelevant except insofar I question the Army for allowing her to enlist. Of course, if they did not they would be up on charges of discriminating against mothers.

I can well understand her becoming disaffected with any military service, but the proper thing to do after you have had such an epiphany is to serve your term and NOT reenlist. Most people do exactly that. Surely she did not think she was joining the Peace Corps when she enlisted.

Of course this way she gets to become a martyr for the cause and get a lot of cheap sympathy.

Originally posted by Liquesence
[iwhether a volunteer or not.

If she was a conscript then yes I would 100% support her like I 100% any vietnam draft dodgers as conscription should only be used (at least in a front line role) if the country itself is at risk.

And what about her four (now motherless) children, what good has this sentence done them!

What good has this sentence done anyone?

From the article linked in OP:

This so-called Christian chaplain could have advised her that there was a regulation, AR 600-43, that gave her the right to petition to be classified a conscientious objector. He chose not to do the Christian thing.

Since she was never advised of her rights as a conscientious objector, she believed that she had no options but to return to Iraq or to emigrate to Canada. Rivera and her husband and two children fled to Canada in February, 2007, settling in Toronto.

This chaplain should be stripped of his collar, if not his job. From the way this sounds, he was either being ignorant and negligent regarding his job, or otherwise he was knowingly trying to serve the military above serving god or his fellow man-- and for that reason IMO should be stripped of his religious position.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
And what about her four (now motherless) children, what good has this sentence done them!

What good has this sentence done anyone?

So being a mother should make you exempt from the law?

Originally posted by VoidHawk
And what about her four (now motherless) children, what good has this sentence done them!

What good has this sentence done anyone?

She didn't think of the consequences, did she?

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by Liquesence
[iwhether a volunteer or not.

If she was a conscript then yes I would 100% support her like I 100% any vietnam draft dodgers as conscription should only be used (at least in a front line role) if the country itself is at risk.

If one voluntarily enlists to defend the country and the constitution, that does not make one obligated to obey every single order and assignment given by superiors or engage in every hostile act congress or the president authorizes if it goes against the oath to defend and protect and the founding principles. That's also akin to Nazism. "I was just following orders, killing all those Jews." Fail. "I was just following orders, bombing those civilian places." Fail.

Etc

But why would you join the army in the 1st place,if you're a woman with children? I may get flamed for this,but i think it's selfish-if you're a soldier you have a much higher chance of getting killed than doing any civilian job-that's my opinion.If you have children,you should not unnecessarily put yourself in dangerous situations,coming from the perspective of a mother,that's how i feel.

i find it farcical,how those applauding this woman's imprisonment,
are no doubt highly "sane" devotees of the american consumer cult
which being a mere 3.4% of the worlds population uses up
[and mostly wastes] 1/3 of the worlds resources

they should be honest and say it clearly
"how dare this evol traitor endanger are cheap oil and cheap consumer products earned
by murdering and looting the rest of the planet"

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by VoidHawk
And what about her four (now motherless) children, what good has this sentence done them!

What good has this sentence done anyone?

She didn't think of the consequences, did she?

What about the consequences for her children? or dont they matter so long as we get to PUNISH someone?