30 day Challenge to Atheists - Confirm your Skepticism

Denying the existence of a 'higher power' without empirical proof is as dumb as espousing such beliefs.

There's a difference between an atheist and a free thinker.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Thank you for being open minded about it. Remember to follow the path I outline when desperation sets in. Why am I confident it will? I know God honors a request made with sincerity.

No problem. Hopefully God will have something for me with this.

Actually you will have the rest of your life if you find what you need... Though it will be neat if this "challenge" has an impact...

It should be a fun experience. I'll report when the thirty days are done.

reply to post by Akragon


BwaHaHaahaa .... well of course you are correct .... i simply agree

and what exactly do you decide what is insanity ?

Muzz

reply to post by Ormuz


You're only called when you're ready my friend...

Not everyone hits that point this time around

Edit: Insanity = Doing the same thing and making the same mistakes over and over again, and expecting a different result...

Originally posted by FoosM

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by Prezbo369

 

It's your own free will that asks for the test.

If you believe we have free will, then you have to believe that a god is not interested in whether we believe in it or not. So why do you care?

This is your pretext and not mine. Free will implies the environment for it to exist. Will is governed by a guardian. In any family, the same circumstances take place. As a child grows older, their own awareness of their environment dictates more responsibility. A hot stove is only a problem if we have never been burned.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Many on this board resent the fact that there is a scripture for every situation; an answer to every foul cry. I do not resent this. I embrace it as a growing child seeking my freedom. A person is only free when they live in harmony with the law. Anything short of this requires the reason for the law.

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Thank you for being open minded about it. Remember to follow the path I outline when desperation sets in. Why am I confident it will? I know God honors a request made with sincerity.

No problem. Hopefully God will have something for me with this.

Actually you will have the rest of your life if you find what you need... Though it will be neat if this "challenge" has an impact...

It should be a fun experience. I'll report when the thirty days are done.

Give us daily updates if you can. Keep the eye (intellect) open to spot synchronicity.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Alright. So far everything has been a smooth ride and the usual in my life. When anything worthwhile happens I'll update with that. No one would really want to hear about me resting or watching YouTube videos.

reply to post by Phoenix267


OMFG !!!! Phoenix267 please keep me up to date .... i a wait with baited breadth as to you updated post !!!


Muzz

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Nice sentiment, however you are working within the irrational confines of the adage GOD=love. I respectfully disagree. Here's a list of God's acts of "love" upon his "children" in Event, biblical entry and number of deaths.
God's "Love"

I realize many are estimates, however I'm sure we can all judge those estimates as probable, based on the assumption of how many people most likely lived at that point in time. In MY opinion, if God were to be tried by a judge and jury, on HIS laws alone, he would be executed as a mass murderer, or at the very least, have a cell next to Charlie Manson's.

and just as a perspective, here's some other infamous historical figures to compare the death tolls with...

Hitler... 11 Million (estimate)
Stalin...10 Million (estimate)
Idi Amin ...500,000
Vlad The Impaler ..."Hundreds of Thousands"
Emperor Hirohito of Japan...150k to 300k

My children need not fear coming wars, it will be their choice to fight or not. AND, if our wonderful gubment decides to conscript people, well, they have a choice there as well. My children have their own consciences. It is my job to instill a good conscience within them, it is ultimately their job to follow it. Will they? I hoe so. When they are matured it will be up to them, and I can only hope that I have instilled proper values in them. That is the woe of a parent.

However, you didn't really answer my questions. 1. Why do Christians feel the overwhelming need to "save" others? 2. What do "you" get out of it? 3. How do you justify anyone following a God that kills their own children?

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
So let me get this straight, you want us to practice self-deception and extreme superstition until something clicks? No thanks, that's what made me find religion to be idiotic in the first place.

No. Just ask for a test from God. If he is real, you will receive your test. If not, you can go on with your life as usual and nothing will happen.

you do understand that this is EXACTLY as idiotic as saying that if you ask for wind to prove weather, and the wind does not come, that weather does not exist, right?

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by maes2

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
I have followed this path many times. I already know the answer.

then what did happen exactly. would you share your experience. our life is itself a test. but some experiences are unique.

When I asked for the test to be over, it was gone the next day. I have done this many times and the same thing happens. It comes as a rush of events and departs like the end of a storm. What's left is new growth from the rain.

edit on 13-5-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

agree. living or working for God Sincerely, can be really fruitful. full of growth.
I bet many of those people who are here and pretending to be an atheist, have such experiences in their lives. when they invoked God for help, while they were alone and helpless.

but we, humans, are forgetful and ungrateful.

reply to post by pyrael

Nice sentiment, however you are working within the irrational confines of the adage GOD=love. I respectfully disagree. Here's a list of God's acts of "love" upon his "children" in Event, biblical entry and number of deaths.
God's "Love"

I realize many are estimates, however I'm sure we can all judge those estimates as probable, based on the assumption of how many people most likely lived at that point in time. In MY opinion, if God were to be tried by a judge and jury, on HIS laws alone, he would be executed as a mass murderer, or at the very least, have a cell next to Charlie Manson's.

Let me open your eyes a bit. The God outside the universe, that made the mechanism of what the Gnostics call the ALL, is not the same as what you are referring to above. In Genesis 1, we have Elohim doing the imaging of creation by archetype. In Genesis 2, we have the LORD (YHVH) constructing the heavens and Earth (Material Realm. The Real Reality of the Father is Paradise and the world to come. It is in perfection and is the Kingdom of God. We are in the Kingdom of the Lord, which is an image for sacrifice before we inherit our place in the true kingdom. The Lord is the Son of God listed here:

Colossians 1

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

This fullness of God did not rest on the Son until this moment in time 2000 years ago. Before this, he was a Son being raised in the wilderness just like you and I. Not only was he the one being raised, but all of mankind was generated by His creation. Not only this, but we are then governed by the Lord of the Genesis 2 Creation. Examine the Genealogy in Luke.

Luke 3

38 the son of Enosh,

the son of Seth, the son of Adam,

the son of God.

First, you have the Son of God. He is the primordial Soul and Construct of the Cosmos. The Son of God was given so that you and I can live. The first century and the Cross were only demonstrations in historical parable for us to see what came before any of us were born. We are a dual nature here on Earth. We are the Father (Spirit / Lord of God) and we are the Soul. One must find love for the other for our union with the groom to take place.

1 Corinthians 10 then outlines this for us in another parable.

17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

We, who are many, are One loaf of Bread. That loaf is Christ. What is on either side of the loaf? The heel.

1 Corinthians 15

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

Adam is the one in Genesis 3 that crushes the Head of Satan. He is the heel.

Genesis 3

“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

I say all this to show you your misconception. When you judge God from the OT, you are really judging yourself. You are slices of this loaf. The Son of God is being raised in the wilderness and that Son is you and I collectively. God is separate from the Son. We are the prodigal Sons separated from the Father until we reach back to Him for salvation. Judging the OT God is judging the Son (YOU) being raised as a child. This is not God. How can I confirm this?

Job 19

25 I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

---Here is the real kicker. Read closely.

28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.

First, he knows His Redeemer (ADAM). He knows the error came through Him. Here is the catch. If YOU say, "How we will hound him, since the root of the trouble lies in Him (What you are really saying by judging the OT), then you will suffer the judgement HE already suffered so YOU could be set free.

We may not agree with the Son's progress through the wilderness, but then again, it's HIS Spirit we all enjoy. He takes and he gives back. You must be born again. Even Old Job knew this. HE will see his redeemer with his eyes and his flesh. That's because Job will be here among us to see the redeemer rule. All 7 billion of us are here to see this happen.

Acts 24

15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

Both the righteous and wicked will be together on the last, all resurrected from the dead at one time.

Enoch One

1 The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be
2 living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his
parable and said −Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One
in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood
as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.

See what he says here. The righteous MUST be present with the wicked to see them judged. All the wicked need to do is seek God. My OP challenge is the first step. Why wouldn't I warn you?

I don't know what God has in store for anyone else. I only know what he has done for me in my own life. Each time I ask for a test, the test comes immediately. I also ride the storm with Him by my side leading the charge forward. I will let others speak from their own experiences over the next 30 days.

Originally posted by Daedalus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
So let me get this straight, you want us to practice self-deception and extreme superstition until something clicks? No thanks, that's what made me find religion to be idiotic in the first place.

No. Just ask for a test from God. If he is real, you will receive your test. If not, you can go on with your life as usual and nothing will happen.

you do understand that this is EXACTLY as idiotic as saying that if you ask for wind to prove weather, and the wind does not come, that weather does not exist, right?

reply to post by pyrael


YOU SAID: However, you didn't really answer my questions. 1. Why do Christians feel the overwhelming need to "save" others?

--I cannot save others. God does this and has since the Son was Sacrificed to lead us through this wilderness. If you examine my last post, you will see that WE are all the Son of God. Many veins, yet one blood. You condemn yourself by condemning the Son of God. The Son is set to turn His authority over us back over to God. Read 1 Corinthians 15:

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

YOU SAID: 2. What do "you" get out of it?

---I get you, my brother, for eternity as a friend. God sent the Son for the same purpose.

YOU SAID: 3. How do you justify anyone following a God that kills their own children?

God gives us eternal life. We are the children who walk away from Him, not the other way around. Death here is merely an illusion. We leave one life to enter another. You must be born again. Baptism is our immersion into the waters of life (Jordan) so we can rise to new life on the other side. God's Spirit was given to us so we could live. It's not our possession until we inherit a new robe (Body) and crown (Mind) of our own.

You do not make your hair grow, your eyes see or the Sun shine. You think and move only. Everything else is produced by God FOR you. I choose not to be arrogant. Instead, I respect God for giving me the opportunity.

Read this thread: Prayer is an Egg

I am merely warming you up for what is coming to the world my friend. When tribulation hits in full force, you will be looking up and remembering my words. The path through the tribulation is the same as the one you can practice on from the OP. Better be prepared, because it IS coming.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Taking the name of the Lord in vain is taking the name apart from the character. Many take the name in vain because they retain their own selfish will. God's will is to give and receive only. The thief takes. We know them by their fruit. There is no point blaming the gun. People kill people. There is no point blaming the religion. Selfishness kills people.

Then why are you selfish enough to try to convince people to follow the trend you so blindly follow? You do realize that because you are a part of Christianity, you get to call yourself a christian and associate with others identifying as Christian, thus fulfilling your instinctual and basic human "need" to be a part of a popular group, or in other words: You do it to fit in, like everybody else. However, you've been convinced that this feeling of fitting in is the feeling of Jesus Christ. So, because of your mistaken feelings, you're selfish enough to try to get others who you deem "threats" to your group to join your group so you can feel more Christ inside you.

This, however, will not work because your target audience is wrong, and your methodology is all wrong too. Nobody here needs "saving" here, in the group of atheists. Speaking for myself, i dont call myself an atheist to feel a part of a group. I do it merely as a descriptor when somebody asks.

Your target audience should be people who are questioning their believe, like agnostics.

Christianity is not a positional good.

Originally posted by shiman

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Taking the name of the Lord in vain is taking the name apart from the character. Many take the name in vain because they retain their own selfish will. God's will is to give and receive only. The thief takes. We know them by their fruit. There is no point blaming the gun. People kill people. There is no point blaming the religion. Selfishness kills people.

Then why are you selfish enough to try to convince people to follow the trend you so blindly follow? You do realize that because you are a part of Christianity, you get to call yourself a christian and associate with others identifying as Christian, thus fulfilling your instinctual and basic human "need" to be a part of a popular group, or in other words: You do it to fit in, like everybody else. However, you've been convinced that this feeling of fitting in is the feeling of Jesus Christ. So, because of your mistaken feelings, you're selfish enough to try to get others who you deem "threats" to your group to join your group so you can feel more Christ inside you.

This, however, will not work because your target audience is wrong, and your methodology is all wrong too. Nobody here needs "saving" here, in the group of atheists. Speaking for myself, i dont call myself an atheist to feel a part of a group. I do it merely as a descriptor when somebody asks.

Your target audience should be people who are questioning their believe, like agnostics.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
I don't know what God has in store for anyone else. I only know what he has done for me in my own life. Each time I ask for a test, the test comes immediately. I also ride the storm with Him by my side leading the charge forward. I will let others speak from their own experiences over the next 30 days.

Originally posted by Daedalus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
So let me get this straight, you want us to practice self-deception and extreme superstition until something clicks? No thanks, that's what made me find religion to be idiotic in the first place.

No. Just ask for a test from God. If he is real, you will receive your test. If not, you can go on with your life as usual and nothing will happen.

you do understand that this is EXACTLY as idiotic as saying that if you ask for wind to prove weather, and the wind does not come, that weather does not exist, right?

edit on 13-5-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

if you want to give credit for YOUR deeds, and YOUR strength to an imaginary friend, who am i to stop you?

all i ask is that you keep it to yourself...i'm a live and let live kinda guy..

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Christianity is not a positional good.

That doesn't make a lot of sense, but you're treating religion like it's a popular trend, and you're in high school. A follow or you're not cool/dead situation when it's a belief that someone follows based on what they've thought about and learned from living in the world, experiencing life and deeply thinking about what others have taught.

You're treating christianity and religion in general like a trend, or a group, on the same level as if it was your gang or mob.

Originally posted by shiman

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Christianity is not a positional good.

That doesn't make a lot of sense, but you're treating religion like it's a popular trend, and you're in high school. A follow or you're not cool/dead situation when it's a belief that someone follows based on what they've thought about and learned from living in the world, experiencing life and deeply thinking about what others have taught.

You're treating christianity and religion in general like a trend, or a group, on the same level as if it was your gang or mob.

A Christian sees his own lowly estate in humility. Nothing about being a Christian is a cause for positional good. Rather, it is cause to see the humanity in us all. A positional good boasts. A contrite heart knows no such boasting. We can boast only in the friend we all have in Christ. He didn't come for the saint. He came for the sinner. It is the sinner who holds the position of honor when a hardened heart is softened.

When the prodigal son returned, the Father held the banquet for the one who was lost, but was then found. The son who never left home was the one who thought he had the positional good. As it turned out, the one who came home had the highest honor. You have it all backwards.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
A Christian sees his own lowly estate in humility. Nothing about being a Christian is a cause for positional good. Rather, it is cause to see the humanity in us all. A positional good boasts. A contrite heart knows no such boasting. We can boast only in the friend we all have in Christ. He didn't come for the saint. He came for the sinner. It is the sinner who holds the position of honor.

So, according to this statement, why are you boasting?