30 day Challenge to Atheists - Confirm your Skepticism

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posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Now, you're just proselytizing. You've lost this argument. This 30 day challenge cannot possibly confirm an atheist's skepticism or God's existence in any way. There are too many loosey-goosey variables. The very best it would do is "confirm" a believer's belief. But that's because they believe it would.

For me to take a challenge, I have to be confident that the results would mean something. That's why I question. Truth is, I could ask the same of the spaghetti monster (or not ask anything at all) and get the exact same results. It would prove absolutely nothing.

edit on 5/11/2013 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:52 AM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


By the gods, can you people just not let others have their own beliefs?? Is it so hard to just accept the fact that there are people with other beliefs than you?? So what if they don't believe in god? So what if they say some things you don't agree with, or like??

When I was younger, and stopped believing in the "christian" beliefs, my whole family harassed me constantly. They even told me bad things happened to me, because I didn't believe. No, bad things happened to me, because I was a foolish child who made foolish mistakes. But I learned, and have what I personally believe is a good life.

For crying out loud, stop trying to push your beliefs on everyone else. If you're sick of atheists harassing christians out there, give it time, they will slow down, and possibly even stop. But I believe you have to endure their harassment, because it's karma. Throughout history, christianity has gone all around the world, pushing their beliefs on other cultures. Deny it all you want, you know it's true. Even in my lifetime, I've been harassed by christians. Sometimes, they were nice, other times, they were downright rude because of my beliefs. So now, some people are so sick of it, they give it right back. It will go away, though, no different than how christians were persecuted in the beginning of it's "life".

I apologize, I just woke up, and am very groggy/grumpy. But the point of this post was to shut the hell up, and keep your own damned beliefs to yourself. There are plenty of people in the world who agree with your viewpoint. So why not talk to them, rather than harass the ones who don't?? Get over yourselves, sheesh.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by Necrobile
 


Don't you know? They are unable to just shut up and go away because they are commanded to spread their plague....er, I mean beliefs, to all the corners of the world. It is in the rules. Don't blame them, they are just brainwashed into doing so. You can't blame a bear for protecting it's cubs...this is how xtians feel about their religion.
BTW, I wish I could have given your post 1,000,000 stars!
edit on 11-5-2013 by LobeDethFaurt because: whatever



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
...Ask God to test you.

Hasn't it been reported that Jesus said (according to Matthew 4:11) - "It is...written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’"?
So - what you're actually suggesting...would be no less than what the Bible says "Satan" was doing to Jesus...
Hmmm... (double agent?)

If we skip all that...is this like a Christmas wish list? Do we address it to...The North Pole?
How do we get this message to some-one/thing we don't "believe in"?
Do we have to accept whatever you say about the method/means of communicating with It/Him/God...?
Or - can we just toss some confetti in the air while blowing soap bubbles and crossing our eyes...and then...we'll know, the message was certified to "get there"?



...I will warn you... If you think God is not real...be ready to see how you are in error...
...
1) Ask for a test ...

Again - can we go online and register...or do we have to fill out a real postcard, buy a stamp, and mail it...?


...3) Do not doubt. Keep your own words few and remain grounded in the knowledge that God will pull you through.

What do you mean - "Do not doubt." That's the whole point of this exercise...RIGHT?
We (those who do not believe in YOUR version of God)...are...DOUBTERS. Faithless.
You've compounded the notion of a "simple test"...by requiring that the Testees (eeek!) jump aboard your ship, and call you 'right' (correct)...before any proof is given.



4) Leave room for God to operate. Trying to solve the problem yourself will not end well. Leave room for God.
5) Pray each moment that God fights your battle. Surrender to the process and allow God to show you the end as better than the beginning.
...

Nothing left to say... Same response as the last line of the response to #3 (above).
Thanks for the titillation.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


You know the saying "sometimes things just have a way of working themselves out" ?
It's not proof of God's existence or omnipotence or general erm, infallibleness.
Possibly proof that there are forces of flow and resistance unique to the human condition that we don't understand, yes.

Now If I understand this exercise....

1.I am to ask god for a test -

Would this be a specific test or just a hey, surprise me, test
It's not very clear and also would be very convenient - anything that doesn't go right in the next 30 days I could just go "hey , this is the test starting !!"

2.Novelty Events.Things that would not normally happen will happen -

Like a football team winning that always loses or like waking up to find your whole bedroom arranged upside down ?
Again very convenient. Something of the football team nature would surely occur in 30 days anyway would it not ?


3. Do not doubt. Keep your own words few and remain grounded in the knowledge that God will pull you through.

You are asking an atheist (ie somebody who has already pondered this at length) to do this, really ??


4.Leave room for God to operate. Trying to solve the problem yourself will not end well. Leave room for God.

So if the test turned out to be say incurable fatal disease how would this work ? Or if my test was just not paying an electricity bill for instance, would a force of some kind prevent me from having my power cut off ?
If it didnt work it could be I had doubt ?

5.Pray each moment that God fights your battle. Surrender to the process and allow God to show you the end as better than the beginning.

Okay now literally each moment for 30 days is a bit of a chore. In fact it would probably just cement the fact that my electricity bill would go unpaid what with all the praying I was doing. Now let's just say there was a good outcome for my fatal disease / electricity bill conundrum. How do I know that was god's doing ? We have free will but is there no such thing as chance / luck or just old fashioned irony ?

6. When the test is over, evaluate your own defect that caused the problem. Learn and grow from the experience.

- Whoa there ! We missed a few lessons somewhere. What an insulting way to phrase that. My own defect ?? Defect ?? That's your ego there deciding that those who do not share your view are , ahem, defective in some way.

I learn and grow from all my experiences thank-you very much and do not need to consider myself to have a defect to do that. I feel sorry for you if you do.


God is good and he can move you from doubt to faith?

Ok - God is good is a statement. Made by you. A person. It does not make it so.
Doubt is not a bad word. Many wonderful human advances could not have occurred without it infact.
Some of us are happy to be doubters. Without doubt I would blindly believe and abide by whatever another human just told me (they have free will you know and are also capable of deceit , greed and agendas).

To explain myself a little I consider myself an atheist in the sense that I don't relate to organised religion at all. Particularly stone aged archaic ones. I have a great interest in religious texts and teachings and history however.
I am thinking that we possibly are not meant to know all the answers at this time / state / dimension / condition, whatever you want to call this amazing, incredible ride we are lucky enough to be on.
I'm trying very hard right now to restore my faith in people. The Us. The We. The many that are the same but different. There was a beautiful piece by Paton Oswalt recently about how most people are kind and we outnumber those enveloped by psychological darkness or for want of a better word , evil.
Imagine what we could accomplish pouring our faith into ourselves !
Ourselves as the omnipotent One.

I'm sorry if some of the above comes across a little blunt but I found your test to be fallible like so much of religion is and at points insulting. Also if your point was to try and save some of us damned , maybe try and check your ego and high horse at the door and really try to help your fellow man. It seems to me like you were fishing for some atheist response here more than converting , ahem , sorry - saving our souls.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Interesting post Enoch. I realized a long time ago that I will never force anyone to believe in God. And I wouldn't want to anyway as what is the point of that? There would have never been any reason for Jesus to die for us. Their true heart won't be in it. It's like forcing someone to believe that brussel sprouts are delicious. There are so many aspects of religion and I, as most ATS users, don't believe in religion - I'm against religion, it is man made. I am a Christian. My entire being revolves around Him. I respect other people's beliefs. We can be an example of Jesus in how we behave and speak. I find your post interesting because if someone is an athiest but is really genuinely curious to see if God exists then I do believe that God will reveal Himself to that person. I don't know that God will show up just for the sake of a test - because the question must be pure in that person's heart. I am not disputing where you are coming from. Not at all. I am intrigued. But I do find it interesting. And I do know where you are coming from within your being.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by LobeDethFaurt
I propose a test to all of you who don't believe you can breathe under water. 1) Stick your head under water. 2) Inhale deeply. The results may surprise you!
----------------------
In all seriousness, your test - at least to us who don't believe - is as rediculous as the test stated above. Seriously.
edit on 11-5-2013 by LobeDethFaurt because: double negative


If you are afraid of drowning, I suppose this may be the case.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by skonaz
 


Your reply is leaning on your own understanding. If you choose the test, you will need to lean a different direction. It will be required. I only offer the path forward if you choose to take the challenge. It's your choice.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by ccseagull
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Interesting post Enoch. I realized a long time ago that I will never force anyone to believe in God. And I wouldn't want to anyway as what is the point of that? There would have never been any reason for Jesus to die for us. Their true heart won't be in it. It's like forcing someone to believe that brussel sprouts are delicious. There are so many aspects of religion and I, as most ATS users, don't believe in religion - I'm against religion, it is man made. I am a Christian. My entire being revolves around Him. I respect other people's beliefs. We can be an example of Jesus in how we behave and speak. I find your post interesting because if someone is an athiest but is really genuinely curious to see if God exists then I do believe that God will reveal Himself to that person. I don't know that God will show up just for the sake of a test - because the question must be pure in that person's heart. I am not disputing where you are coming from. Not at all. I am intrigued. But I do find it interesting. And I do know where you are coming from within your being.


Good words. I am confident that God will honor the request to test someone's character. This is equivalent to God reading our word to us. The same word He wrote is the same one he reads when shining a light our way. This is simply a request to shine a light that shows us something about ourselves we did not previously know. It's like watching an episode of Andy Griffith. Barney could not see what others could see about him. The experience and trials he passed through allowed Andy to show Barney what was unseen to himself.



We don't travel down that road alone.






edit on 11-5-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 01:29 PM
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If you can't test god then why are you testing him to test us? Your test doesn't make any sense and pretty much contradicts your statement that god cannot be tested.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
So let me get this straight, you want us to practice self-deception and extreme superstition until something clicks? No thanks, that's what made me find religion to be idiotic in the first place.


Maybe no one can prove God is real to you so I give you a simple challenge.

Do loving things and you will feel love? Thus you will prove love is real.

The bible says in 1 John "God is love" twice. So according to the gospel if you prove love is real you have found God.

Love is real, if you pursue love you will find it. This is the promise made to all who would put love first.
edit on 11-5-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 03:03 PM
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How about instead of us testing your theory based on nothing factual, you take up our side for 30 days and research everything you can using scientific facts to disprove your own beliefs.

In 4 simple steps you can free your mind.

Step 1: Buy an astronomy book and read it front to back.

Step 2: Look at a periodic table of elements and research where they come from. Start with the lighter elements, jump down a row gradually to the heavier elements. Research and discover where each of these elements are found, and how they got here.

Step 3: Research scientific journals, biological discoveries, and other fact-based findings about the physical world surrounding you. Research micro & macro evolution. Next time you go to a gas station and fill up your tank, think about why it is called 'fossil fuel'.

Step 4: This step involves philosophical thinking in an abstract manner which requires basic and some extensive knowledge in each of the above areas in each step.

Come to the realization that we are a small blip in time in the lifespan of this current universe. Realize that we are only here because numerous incredible acts of nature provided the canvas for life. Realize that there may have been, or currently are, an infinite number of other universes in which each and every property and function of nature may occur in a different manner which would never provide the ability for life to arise. We are here because, we are here uniquely. We are simply the random perfect outcome, not the result of a random causal creator. Realize that in our current universe, on our planet, that we are physically made up of and surrounded by material from previously existing celestial bodies. We are made up of star stuff is a literal phrase.

Onto philosophy: If there was a creator, the creator chose to create imperfect single-celled organism rather than Homo Sapiens first. The creator also had the ability to know the outcome of genetic mutations which lead to the bloom of different iterations of life forms and eventually led to our existence. Genetic mutations which lead to biological evolution and the development of new species is a completely random event which makes it incredibly implausible to believe that some creator would be able to determine these outcomes. Even if you believe that a creator is all-knowing and has the power to create life, the creator can only know that which is already created and in existence, or specifically that which has the ability to be known.

It is impossible to know that which lacks the capability to be known.

If I think of a number, that number in my mind is in existence somewhere and has the capability to be known, so theoretically someone whom possesses telekinetic capabilities would thus be potentially able to know the number in which I am thinking of. The outcome of the process in which a mutation occurs however, can not be known because it is truly random. You can determine probability of mutations, mutation trends, types of mutations seen, mutation hotspots etc but you can never definitively determine that which a supposed creator has determined because the 'pre-determined' outcome is impossible to know.

/Rant

Time for some constructive debate.


edit on 11-5-2013 by ohiwastedmylif because: (no reason given)
edit on 11-5-2013 by ohiwastedmylif because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by ohiwastedmylif
 


Nice try, but I doubt they will listen. To turn to logic is to turn to eternal torture for them.

Great rebuttal btw.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 03:54 PM
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God's word clearly says we cannot test him.
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 





Ask God to test you



yet another contradiction ...

how about the 2000 year test christian have waited for that proved nothing?

seems we have an answer..



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


What is seems interesting to me is that god is never in a hurry to answer your prayers, or to help people in the way they need it. Children are dying daily in hospitals, no matter how much faith they have. But hey, when it comes to test you, and break your spine you can count on god for sure. Ever wondered why that is? Ever wondered why you prefer to believe that?

If I can't test god, why do I need him to test me? Better let's just stay friends.

Let's try it this way: I'll ask god for a big gift, whatever he thinks he can offer, not necessarily money, but big enough so I know beyond doubt that I couldn't get on my on. If it comes in 30 days time, I'll be back here screaming for everyone to hear that there is a god.
Deal?



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 05:09 PM
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Um... no thanks.

If i told you that the great sky pony was responsible for all the happiness in the world, would you think i was strange?

Do my test:
1) Ask Sky Pony for a rainbow
2) Watch for rainbows in the sky
3) Do not doubt. Keep your own words few and remain grounded in the knowledge that Sky Pony will make you a rainbow.
4) Leave room for Sky Pony to operate. Trying to make a rainbow yourself will not end well. Leave room for Sky Pony.
5) Pray each moment that Sky Pony makes happy. Surrender to the Sky Pony
6) When the test is over, evaluate your own defect that caused the problem. Learn and grow from the experience.


Does this seem silly to you? This is what your test looks like from my perspective. I respect your decision to believe whatever you want to believe, just as long as you dont push your views on others.

DC



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by ccseagull
 


If God revealed himself so many times through the biblical age why did he all of sudden stop and disappear into the shadows? All Gods are Man Made none of them are before man. God never created nothing but believing in god has lead to many wars and unjust behavior like human sacrifices.Man Used God to explain his surroundings and to control people.When I was a believer, I would have never hesitated to run into traffic to save someone, I would not hesitate to run into a burning build or run into a field of bullets for the knowledge that I was protected by god and if he felt it was my time, I would live on for eternity in peace.

When I came to the realization that god was man made and without his protection life here on earth has become much more important to me.I would not lay down my life so easily as I would have.
If god reveals himself to people who seek him why did he not so so, when I was desperately seeking him, when I was pure of heart and was in crisis of the massive change of believing that he was nothing more then a man made tool? Why would he not reveal himself to me?
I know why but you say " if someone is an athiest but is really genuinely curious to see if God exists then I do believe that God will reveal Himself to that person"
Why would god not revel himself to me before making me an turn into an atheist?



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 



Sooo, we can't ask for something good from this all-loving god, but we CAN ask him to hit us with a bus and give our loved ones cancer? Yeah, if god has a pointy tail and a pitch fork, then no doubt about it, you've been asking god to test you.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
So let me get this straight, you want us to practice self-deception and extreme superstition until something clicks? No thanks, that's what made me find religion to be idiotic in the first place.


Yeah yeah, but here's the good part. Supposedly, god tests us ALLLLL the time. So, the best way to see if he's there is to ask him to STOP testing you for thirty days. What do you think might happen, other than a little piece of mind for a month?


If he's not there, then nothing will change. If he is there, then at least we get a 30 day break from all these goshdarn tests!
edit on 5/11/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 05:52 PM
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This challenge and this thread in general make me feel so sorry for christians. It's just sad the way that they grasp at straws, and are so confused by simple logic.

Basically, you're saying ask 'god' to test you, and sometime, something will happen. It may be major, it may be mundane, but if something, ANYTHING, happens, that proves 'god' exists. However, if NOTHING happens, then you can be an atheist. Right. So, as long as something occurs in the next month, OMG God is real!!

How about I test your faith? Take this challenge:
Over the next 30 days, do not attribute anything to a fictional 'god'. If 'god' is real, you wont have anything occur to you over the entire month. Not a single thing will happen. However, if something does happen, well that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that we all have to be Atheist.

Makes perfect sense, doesn't it? No, it doesn't, and neither does your challenge. If you want to believe something, go ahead, but stop trying to push your backwards and archaic religion on others. You're trying to hold the entire human race back, and we'd like to move forward. People like you are the problem in this world.





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