30 day Challenge to Atheists - Confirm your Skepticism

Originally posted by shiman

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
A Christian sees his own lowly estate in humility. Nothing about being a Christian is a cause for positional good. Rather, it is cause to see the humanity in us all. A positional good boasts. A contrite heart knows no such boasting. We can boast only in the friend we all have in Christ. He didn't come for the saint. He came for the sinner. It is the sinner who holds the position of honor.

So, according to this statement, why are you boasting?

Quote the words where I have boasted about myself.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by shiman

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
A Christian sees his own lowly estate in humility. Nothing about being a Christian is a cause for positional good. Rather, it is cause to see the humanity in us all. A positional good boasts. A contrite heart knows no such boasting. We can boast only in the friend we all have in Christ. He didn't come for the saint. He came for the sinner. It is the sinner who holds the position of honor.

So, according to this statement, why are you boasting?

Quote the words where I have boasted about myself.

You're very egotistical in the sense that you feel a part of this religion, you believe everybody else should be following this trend, so you boast about your own religion arrogantly as if it's the only trend and the right trend.

Religions are bad to begin with but monotheistic ones where the worst this planet has ever seen, is it coincidence that they all have the same God (Judaism , Christianity, Islam)?
The good thing about life is that we can think, doubt, question, explore, create, evolve,
Then comes Christianity and tell us there is no need to do in life what you were supposed to do, because we know all the knowledge is in the bible, cause ''gods words'' are the only truth we need to know, Gods is a know-all and other stuff like that.
So, even though at the times of Christ there was some sort of technology by the advanced civilizations of that time ( Romans , Greeks , Egyptians etc.) who had astronomy, scientific history (see Iraklitos, not some unbased foolish stories made by nomad bogan people in the desert), mathematics, physics etc. They already knew about earths shape and the celestial objects.
Then came Christianity, named all the above as; Satans work, destroyed statues, temples, books, libraries, philosophical schools etc. from 330 ad and later they made illegal the practice of ancient costumes n religions n philosophies with the penalty of death, torture, then they wrote the bible somewhere around 600ad in Byzantium empire and in greek language, supposedly from older scripts.
To make a long story short, science, philosophy n logical thinking was dead, and people lived their life in misery, superstitions, fear of Satan and Gods punishment.
I Guess this is the paradise Christians dream of.....

Sorry if I am offensive to some, but we must do everything we can so these dark ages, wont come again
I know some religious persons (christians full of love) that would be happy to burn me alive if they could.

Originally posted by sevens8
No challenge from me, I believe God exist you are right and I know him and we can prove God exist easily now from the verification of the foundations of the world with the opened book God has provided for us through the Kingdom of Heaven.

The atheist cannot prove that God does not exist, they are stuffed in their falsehood with no where to go, they are cornered like a rat and act accordingly. The atheist is the greatest thief and liar of them all, robbing people of their eternal heritage without a scrap of evidence.

I'm not sure what worse Islam or Atheism, maybe atheism, Islam can change their ways unto God, unto the demonstrated truth supporting the Golden rule and the ways of Jesus. Atheists have no hope, they don't even try to find God in truth and demonstration, they instead hide under mountains hoping truth goes away speaking their crap in utter falsehood like a liar and a spiritual robber.

edit on 13-5-2013 by sevens8 because: (no reason given)

So you have a go at Atheists and other religions because you and your religion is perfect.
With all due respect, many words I have read here do not come from a God Loving person.
Atheists don't believe in RELIGION some of us. Some of us do believe in a higher power. just
not the preachy, give me your money God's.

With due respect, as always.
Nice to be polite and not presume on a matter.

Thanks

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Thank you for your reply.
I have a preachy Aunt. I was born and raised to go to Church.
Once I was off age to realise it was a money making scheme by white, rich, gossipy people, I bailed.
Sorry buddy, All the will in the world won't make me turn to religion....
..But I believe there is a higher power. I have had experiences. I CAN HAVE A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH MY GOD. Nobody says I can't. One of my best friends (From the States, I am Scottish) is a Pastor, a Reverend, He teaches me well. He told me "Love God in your heart and that is enough"
He realised the imperfection of organised religion. Almost hates it. I don't blame him. All he gets is rich people ASK FOR MORE FROM God! Give me more money, give me a nice car, and more.

All I ask for for is to look after my kids, so far, Great Job by God..
On the War and kids dying front, not so good. He has tested my will, in pain, for 10+ years now.
What is he testing? Do you know? I don't

Thank you for your response Sir

I boast of God only.

Originally posted by shiman

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by shiman

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
A Christian sees his own lowly estate in humility. Nothing about being a Christian is a cause for positional good. Rather, it is cause to see the humanity in us all. A positional good boasts. A contrite heart knows no such boasting. We can boast only in the friend we all have in Christ. He didn't come for the saint. He came for the sinner. It is the sinner who holds the position of honor.

So, according to this statement, why are you boasting?

Quote the words where I have boasted about myself.

You're very egotistical in the sense that you feel a part of this religion, you believe everybody else should be following this trend, so you boast about your own religion arrogantly as if it's the only trend and the right trend.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Taking the name of the Lord in vain is taking the name apart from the character. Many take the name in vain because they retain their own selfish will. God's will is to give and receive only. The thief takes. We know them by their fruit. There is no point blaming the gun. People kill people. There is no point blaming the religion. Selfishness kills people.

Originally posted by shauny

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

If I were an Atheist, I would be afraid as well.

Really?
Do you know this as a fact?
Religion scares me, why? Because you all fight and cause wars.
Religion will kill this world. Organised religion will kill is all.
And all you are doing here is giving your opinion.
I respect that.
But I have more proof does not exist, than you do that God exists.
This is a fact you would be in fear of yes?

Why would an Atheist be in fear? or afraid?
I don't get your logic here at all?

And you Avatar..
Enoch who?

This is my take..


God I can buy. Religion I can't


Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you

You are right that there are many people in the church who are trapped there as parasites of the process. I have the same trouble watching the process myself, but true religion is not the church or the pastors. True religion is the desire of the heart for service to others and keeping your own temple clean. A pastor has the same duty. There are some churches of value and some that divert that duty back to the temple itself. No question that we all fall short of our duty.

James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

What is he testing? Mainly selfishness. Do you see light? No. You see what light hits. Light can only reveal what it shines on. This is the purpose of light the very reason you detest what it hits in the church. We are all being revealed. The point is to rise above what you see, but assist the others on the path. You can light the fire you burn by or you can use that light to assist others on the path. One serves the self and the the other becomes the light that shines.

Originally posted by shauny
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Thank you for your reply.
I have a preachy Aunt. I was born and raised to go to Church.
Once I was off age to realise it was a money making scheme by white, rich, gossipy people, I bailed.
Sorry buddy, All the will in the world won't make me turn to religion....
..But I believe there is a higher power. I have had experiences. I CAN HAVE A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH MY GOD. Nobody says I can't. One of my best friends (From the States, I am Scottish) is a Pastor, a Reverend, He teaches me well. He told me "Love God in your heart and that is enough"
He realised the imperfection of organised religion. Almost hates it. I don't blame him. All he gets is rich people ASK FOR MORE FROM God! Give me more money, give me a nice car, and more.

All I ask for for is to look after my kids, so far, Great Job by God..
On the War and kids dying front, not so good. He has tested my will, in pain, for 10+ years now.
What is he testing? Do you know? I don't

Thank you for your response Sir

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

I boast of God only.

Originally posted by shiman

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by shiman

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
A Christian sees his own lowly estate in humility. Nothing about being a Christian is a cause for positional good. Rather, it is cause to see the humanity in us all. A positional good boasts. A contrite heart knows no such boasting. We can boast only in the friend we all have in Christ. He didn't come for the saint. He came for the sinner. It is the sinner who holds the position of honor.

So, according to this statement, why are you boasting?

Quote the words where I have boasted about myself.

You're very egotistical in the sense that you feel a part of this religion, you believe everybody else should be following this trend, so you boast about your own religion arrogantly as if it's the only trend and the right trend.

You boast of YOUR god.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


It seems to me, not that it is but it *seems* to me, that my post upset you a bit. If it did, please accept my apology as that was in no way my intention. However, I personally cannot help but judge the OT or the NT or the debate over contradictions etc. That is human nature, I am most certain you judge too, unless you aren't human
However, I would hope that you would understand why I, and many like me, would conclude that God=hate.

Aside from the killing by God in the bible, his "followers" have committed some of the most horrible crimes against humanity - in HIS name. I wish I could use a perfect example for you, but sadly, All I know about you is that you believe in GOD. But, for a inferred example, perhaps you can just pick something you wholeheartedly believe does NOT exist. Then, lets say that that specific "thing" is preached about in a book. Now YOU go and read this book and find that while it DOES say that this "thing" is all these wonderful things, it is ALSO responsible for a disgustingly large amount of senseless death, manipulations and unwarranted expectations of it's followers. Would you not question those who would devote their lives to such a perceptibly evil "thing"?

I'm not going to directly respond to your first reply, it appears that you were offering a background for your second reply. lease correctly if I am wrong. However, as to your second...

1. Okay, I can accept that. looking from yours, as well as many other religions', POV that makes sense. Only the jailer can release the jailed, it seems to me, that "The LORD", as you reference being a different diety from "GOD" is the "jailer" of man and only through the "Jailer" can man be released. I'd assume then also that "GOD" would be the Governor giving the "Pardon"?

2. I like your answer. Heartfelt sentiment, and comical at the same time. At least you're honest!! Many have answered "nothing" to wit, the salesman in me always takes as a red flag (No one does anything for nothing). However, be careful...... One might say you are "the devil" claiming souls!! LOL

3. This bothers me. God takes credit in the bible for mass murder, but it's our fault these senseless killing occur. That would be like me running over the family dog and then blaming my kids for it. I was driving, I didn't look to be sure nothing was there, I ran over the dog. My kids didn't take my keys or tie fido up behind the car. If god were willing to publicly accept responsibility for what (s)he did, perhaps I would think differently.

Just a side note/question, Judeo-christian practices were by no means the first to use these "stories". Why then, do you follow this specific brand rather than that of one closer to the originators, or perhaps (if found) THE originator. The Egyptians have many of these stories, same with Babylonian/Sumerian myths, the Greeks and Romans, even Krishna and Buddhism tell many of these stories. And, proven scientifically, they are much older religions. Heck, even the Vikings have similar Stories (Although more bloody).

reply to post by pyrael


Not at all upset. I was showing you the excluded middle. You are operating on a pretext that does not presuppose why you lack memory before birth. The jailer you sense is the law that is your guardian until the higher self is awakened. All previous allegories speak to the same truths in the Bible. One set is the worthless mystery of the way and truth (path to life). The revelation of true life is the mystery more precious than Gold. This is why Christ said he was the way (Tao) the truth (philosophy) and the life (end of journey). The way overcomes the outer shell by opening the eyes. The truth awakens you to activate the higher self. The life is the result of finding the other two.

Examine the conversations in this thread. While many speak the voice of the outer man, I have a conversation with their inner man. When the outer gives way to the inner, you will see and hear what I am saying. Not before. Your inner man hears. Listen to him.

For those following this thread, let me point out a question and I would like as many to answer as you can.

The question is here:

If you get the answer right, you know a mystery that many Christians do not even realize. By this answer, I offer evidence for my claims in the OP.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

For those following this thread, let me point out a question and I would like as many to answer as you can.

The question is here:

If you get the answer right, you know a mystery that many Christians do not even realize. By this answer, I offer evidence for my claims in the OP.

edit on 15-5-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

More specific than what you say. Read the Sermon on the Mount. It only takes a few minutes. Ask yourself the question: Can EnochWasRight, in all his musings on truth, accomplish this work of salvation from faith? Read Revelation 13 18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666. Let's assume for a minute that the mark of mankind is Carbon (6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons) and our fruit of knowledge is a graven image made from Carbon (Technology) and that this image will ultimately spell our demise. Let's see it coming and ask a simple question: Can I buy and sell? Yes. Why? Simple. I have not sold all I own and I do not pickup my cross, giving all I own to the poor (No selfishness at all). If I did, I could say that I do not have the mark of the beast (Animal nature of selfishness). Didn't Christ say that this was necessary? Didn't he say that the sermon on the mount was the measure of the Christian life? Let me give Jiggerj and my own righteousness a riddle? How do we overcome? You and I are on either side of the debate, yet we are equal against what Christ demands of us. Are we lost? Give me your best answer.

Are we lost ? Hell yes ! ( If that was your question, there were several in that link )

But let's assume for a minute ???
This is a question of the most important nature and you want to assume for a minute ?

6 movies in the Star Wars series, 6 episodes per season of Peep show and 6 cans in a six pack.
Let's assume that's correct , amazing evidence yeah ?

Enoch, I enjoy your posts as they always invoke a reaction in me and make me think
but for want of a better word, dear God your ego is in the way to an immense degree
Again I ask, (free will and all that) Are you posting any of this to save us / help us ?
Or is it to be starred and flagged as the best, most defensive Christian on ATS ?
(I use caps when I think of it to be respectful btw)

See if you can answer without a biblical reference and tell me what YOU think !
For yourself, with free will.
Obviously you are a staunch believer and I respect that you are.
I would love to have the clarity and certainty that you do.
I would love you to post what your definition of an atheist is.
Your definition, not a quote if possible.
I get the impression here sometimes that atheists are considered immoral , un-enlightened and lacking substance / intelligence.
IMHO there is noone walking the Earth right now who knows the truth of existence , the nature of a higher power or the proof there of.
I'm honest enough to admit that I don't know and couldn't possibly, are you ?
I do love considering it all.

reply to post by skonaz

See if you can answer without a biblical reference and tell me what YOU think !
For yourself, with free will.
Obviously you are a staunch believer and I respect that you are.
I would love to have the clarity and certainty that you do.
I would love you to post what your definition of an atheist is.
Your definition, not a quote if possible.
I get the impression here sometimes that atheists are considered immoral , un-enlightened and lacking substance / intelligence.
IMHO there is noone walking the Earth right now who knows the truth of existence , the nature of a higher power or the proof there of.
I'm honest enough to admit that I don't know and couldn't possibly, are you ?
I do love considering it all.

There is a spark of truth in each of us that is dormant. Once lit, the spark begins to burn. I am merely a match.

An Atheist rejects belief in the sovereignty of a higher being. They may believe in life outside of our domain of existence, but they reject the authority of any such entity over our own understanding of free will. Life and existence is seen as a temporary ownership of something we did not create. In many cases, the truth is understood, but suppressed. Not only is it suppressed within their own thoughts, it is actively suppressed extrinsically in a type of denial of what is evident to anyone else. The common denominator to this suppression is fear and anger.

This is my definition, but it goes deeper. Authority of a parent is often rejected by a child. If you compare a lesser case to the greater, you see that pride and ignorance is often to blame for rejection of truth. Of course, parenting skills have much to do with this and the majority of Atheists come from homes where needs were not met in a meaningful way by the parents. The need is still present and so is the rejection of authority.

Anyone who dares to see that the laws of nature govern all aspects of our lives will easily see that all examples in nature extend to the laws of the Bible. Proverbs are restatements of natural law. Parables are examples to draw the mind above and below. Biblical stories and history are narrative used to show law as a guardian and not a judge. The OT is the parable of a nation rejecting God's law and suffering from it. The NT is a narrative of His Story, which is one man demonstrating his sovereignty over the law and the world He created. It ends with the love he gives and not the authority he takes. He came as a baby and conquered life itself with compassion, suffering and virtue. He spent 7,000 years telling us the story and it is true, "you must be born again" to hear the story in its entirety.

God is good no matter what our lack of understanding refuses to hear.

Again, that spark is in us all. Just allow it to kindle. While others speak to the outer man, I choose to speak to the inner man and higher nature, which is why you sense that something within you is listening. If you don't listen, the future man within does. Once that man is awakened and you begin to be embodied by the new man you will become, the old man will fade. This is the future of us all.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Thank you for your reply.
Very cool...

reply to post by EnochWasRight


If ever there were lines between lines, between lines....

First, I'm replying to your reply to me...

well said, and I will leave your answer as being completely answered, simply because I can "see" the arcane "occult" meaning within your words. Well said, and perhaps others will re-examine what is really there.

As for the question...

here is my short answer..

Are we lost? no.

And here is the long answer.

We are not lost for many reasons. First, from the point of view of the academic, I have a map, a GPS location, and many other means at my disposal to know where I am. I am here, and I know where "here" is.

Second, in a more arcane approach to the mundane logic, I exist, therefore I cannot be lost. And even if I am unsure to exactly "where" I am, someone else most likely knows my location.

Third, from an even less mundane approach, again I exist.the simple acceptance that I exist means that I belong somewhere. That place is ultimately beside myself. I cannot hide from myself because then I would no longer exist.

Fourth, from a spiritual point of view. I am. "The spirit is everlasting" this phrase is coined in countless ancient religions. It is the predominant premise of each, no matter how it is worded.

Fifth, The natural laws of the metaphysical universe will not allow it. "Know that all is one" Even if I were to not "exist any longer, I would still exist. Even the doubting scientific mind cannot disagree that if I were to cease in this form, that I would not still exist in some other form. Matter is bound by energy, created by energy. Energy does not cease to be it merely transforms.

Sixth, the facet which I assume you were looking for. One cannot be lost, until the creator deems otherwise.

Personally, My faith is different. I do not believe that "GOD" whoever or whatever it may be, and I am speaking of the true creator god - not the "jealous fire vomiting hater of humanity", would not damn "it's" creation for eternity simply because (s)he didn't follow a specific book or system. If "God" is omnipotent, omnipresent, etc. Then it would stand to reason that "God" accounted for differing cultures and different ways of expressing their faith. I'm not talking about cult-like groups who sacrifice animals or people (although, GOD did expect that at one time). I'm referring to the many religions this world has seen that all tell the same stories. Krishna, Egyptian, Babylonian, Buddhism... the list is very long. All have the immaculate conception, all have the crucifixion and raised from the dead on the 3rd day. Miracles performed etc. So, I believe that "God" does not keep a list of deeds to look through rating each as negative or positive and deciding if you live or die by that. But rather, by your conscience. All these similar religions state the judgement of "the heart of man", and that in my opinion is one's conscience. So, keeping the supposition that one day the world will end and "God" will judge "The Hearts of Man", it will be our consciences. And as such, I say follow the guidelines of faith, live well, be prosperous, etc. Do all the things you know are right, and keep a clear conscience. If I have lived a good life, to the best of my ability, avoided wronging others and made amends when I DID wrong another, then I will be judged in that way. Remember, we're talking about a parent here. Parents don't instill fear in their children, they instill a good conscience, strong morals, and love.

But, I'm a weirdo. I also believe in the golden rule. and sometimes, I truly DO wonder how some of the people in this world can commit such evils and sleep well at night. Their consciences must either cause them horrible grief, or they have learned to completely ignore it.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by Thundersmurf

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
So let me get this straight, you want us to practice self-deception and extreme superstition until something clicks? No thanks, that's what made me find religion to be idiotic in the first place.

No. Just ask for a test from God. If he is real, you will receive your test. If not, you can go on with your life as usual and nothing will happen.

So what are the logical outcomes here? From what you've said, if we're tested then the test is from God and he is real. It would be reasonable to assume then that you'll be open to the suggestion that if God doesn't present a test, then he isn't real? yes?

Or maybe he's only real in the minds of some people?

I have followed this path many times. I already know the answer.

Care to answer some of those questions then? Until then, I'll just keep presuming that your logic is spurious at best.

reply to post by pyrael

We are not lost for many reasons. First, from the point of view of the academic, I have a map, a GPS location, and many other means at my disposal to know where I am. I am here, and I know where "here" is.

Second, in a more arcane approach to the mundane logic, I exist, therefore I cannot be lost. And even if I am unsure to exactly "where" I am, someone else most likely knows my location.

Let me point you in a slightly different direction. Consider what you are:

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

Then, consider what the tree of life consists of at its essence. Is the acorn the oak tree or the oak tree the acorn? Neither one. They are both the essence of information.

Revelation 21

26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

What does the book of life contain? Our encoded information that allows our essence to engage and express into form. With this information, we then ask the question again. Are we saved or lost?

reply to post by pyrael

Remember, we're talking about a parent here. Parents don't instill fear in their children, they instill a good conscience, strong morals, and love.

But, I'm a weirdo. I also believe in the golden rule. and sometimes, I truly DO wonder how some of the people in this world can commit such evils and sleep well at night. Their consciences must either cause them horrible grief, or they have learned to completely ignore it.

I really enjoyed your answer and I recall verses in 1 Corinthians 13 that state, "Love keeps no records of wrongs." I also recall threads where I was trying to consider the quantum physics of faith: Quantum Mechanics of Faith and Collapsing Wave Function.

When we examine how collapsing wave function works to consciousness, I am not sure it is possible for someone to move on apart from the will to allow it. We must be willing and the judge must approve. That consciousness you are speaking of might just be the connecting point to our entanglement with God. Works do not produce faith. God produces and gives the measure of faith we have. Faith produces good works and strengthens our bond with God. This entanglement needs a mechanism to connect one to the other and that connection is the wave of creation, which is found, again, in John 1. Word is the bond. With our mouth, confession is made. Christ is the way, the truth and the life. We don't come before the Father apart from that mechanism.

1 Corinthians 10

16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

We, who are many, are one loaf. Christ is the heel (ADAM) on each end of the loaf. If we are not part of the loaf, how can the heel crush the head of Satan on our behalf?

1 Corinthians 15 (Notice the Heel and His work)

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the heavenly man.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

Genesis 3

15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

My reasoning is one thing, but the Words are clear above from scripture. Unless we bond with Christ, there are still loose ends that keep us from rising.

Entanglement is the key: Matthew 18

18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be[e] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[f] loosed in heaven.

19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

Each time I am in a church service, I am gathered with other believers. We are one in a bond of love for God. We are agreeing on the outcome as stated in the scriptures. The Eastern philosophy of the 'WAY' is a path to righteousness, but we still fall short. The "TRUTH" of philosophy is virtue and love, but speculation never ends. The "LIFE" of Christ is unique and something that is an enigma to saint and sinner alike. I believe these words.

John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Christ is the Word that has been there for all of us and in every nation. We can find Him everywhere on the path, but only one place giving new life to all who will agree. The cup is the new DNA from Christ's blood and tree. The Bread is the new body, which comes from the shedding of the old. Baptism is the immersion of the water cleansing the old temple as we inherit the new Robe (Body) from the new blood. Science matches what we know to be true from DNA and our own view of the Lamb's book of life. Why would we doubt this to be the truth?