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CA Senator Yee propses 3D printer regs, background checks and licensing

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posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:08 AM
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this is ludicrous. All they want to do, si regulate who can produce items and who cant, hell you could make a gun using parts from a hardware store if you wanted to, going to make people get background checks for some wood, a metal barrel, and one nail.




posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


But why would you need to print a 3D gun off as you just buy a gun legaly in any shop?

The reason you would need one is if you want to do something illegal.

Restricting 3D gun is not going to hurt anyone but criminals.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Do you have a proposal to change the very nature and core of our system ...before making guns with this technology kills the very technology itself? I don't.... So tilting at windmills by saying coulda, woulda, shoulda, isn't going to do much after the fact and we simply dream of what might have been.

Sure... 3-D printers will make a functional weapon right now, today. They won't, yet, make so many other things. I'm not being a coward in any form here. I'm pointing out that to have that very primitive gun (which again, is outright illegal unless it's a licensed creation with a serial number), we'll never see those other things come by the technology yet to be refined. Yet to be innovated.

Truth be known, big corporations and big business are probably rooting for more people to make these silly things so that end result is the outcome. I'm sure the idea of home fabrication of parts and whole items by the average Joe is really terrifying to any number of industries ...and without even touching on the sheer literal threat these plastic guns pose? That alone should be enough to avoid giving Government all the reason to insure innovation outside of tight control never comes.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:15 AM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 


Why anyone would need or want to do anything is irrelevant.

If you honestly believe the only reason anyone would want to is to harm others than you must be a very boring and uninteresting person. Virtually all endeavors I have undertaken are rooted simply in wondering if I can.

Restricting 3d printing hurts everyone.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


You accept that weapons can be made other ways yet still support playing coward with 3d printing.

Sounds like you're excusing lawmaker stupidity.

This is the problem. We shouldnt be excusing their crap. We certainly shouldnt be living afraid of what they might do if we scare them.


Its different and I think you are smart enough to understand this...

AA "Zip gun"requires specific materials and piping (and a bit of knowledge) and is about as accurate as me throwing a bathtub at a target across the room. Also they are generally not deadly as they do not have the penetration power of a "real" firearm- Much in the way a darrenger is accurate tand deadly within about 5-10 feet.

-But it goes further than this and I know you see the problems.

-Heres a fight I want to see happen- here is a real "Freedom" issue. Where are you guys supporting the RIGHT of a Felon to own a firearm? !/7th of our nation is incapable of legally owning a Firearm and protecting themselves due to a felony conviction. Many (if not most)_ of the felonies are of a non Violent nature.

So a Pot grower can never own a firearm (legally) but a bar brawler who beats people up but never catches a "felony" (because Violent acts like fighting are a misdemeanor) can run around like Rambo- legally. Where is the support for felons who were stripped of inalienable rights?
i.e. The second amendment is either a "privilege" or a "right"- It became a privilege (like it or not) when Felons were stripped of their right to protect themselves via the State. But the same people screaming the loudest about the second Ammendment NOW are the same ones who supported most (if not all) of the other Government tyranny when it didnt effect THEM.

BTW: We have better gun rights now (in my State) since I have been alive.

edit on 11-5-2013 by DarKPenguiN because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Do you have a proposal to change the very nature and core of our system ...


The only way it will change is if the people change and coddling them is never going to promote that change. It will only promote more coddling. Simple proposal: STOP CODDLING
edit on 11-5-2013 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by DarKPenguiN
 


I've always supported a "felons" right to own a firearm. When the debt is paid it's paid and if we dont believe that (which we apparently do not considering rights restrictions and scarlet letter registries) then we should rebuild the entire penal system.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Your right any big manfacturing Industry is crapping themselfs. It would destroy the power a lot of the rich would have over us in some ways and complety change the world economy.

Imagine is you did not have to grow or rear food? You just grow lipid proteins and carbohydrates in a big lab useing bacteria and then insert what proteins ect you need into the printer then make a steak? Or a carrot? Food prices would drop and you would have a near unlimited source of food. Arigriculture would be near oboslete (there will still be some how will pay for traditional food). This would be good for the little people but for those who are in charge of the food supply it will be a bad thing.....

Same with the car industry and car parts or computer parts ect.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Well, I guess I've about run the course of the logical arguments I can present on this, though I believe I made a pretty solid case on it. I'd just say this, about the notion of 'not coddling'.

It's also important to choose our battles. Fight those we can win, avoid those we cannot and choose wisely in which are worth the victory. In this case? It's Lose/Lose to push in this direction and likely for no ultimate (positive) change in the system anyway. The ultimate price is a very high one, for nothing really gained and everything lost.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by DarKPenguiN
 


I've always supported a "felons" right to own a firearm. When the debt is paid it's paid and if we dont believe that (which we apparently do not considering rights restrictions and scarlet letter registries) then we should rebuild the entire penal system.

Cool- And thanks.
I wasnt necessarily accusing you of anything nor pretending to know what you support- Mine was a more general statement that is in regards to most.

-Appreciate the civil response. I fully agree with you.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by crazyewok
 


Why anyone would need or want to do anything is irrelevant.

If you honestly believe the only reason anyone would want to is to harm others than you must be a very boring and uninteresting person. Virtually all endeavors I have undertaken are rooted simply in wondering if I can.

Then use that wonder to create something that will help the world! Not kill people.

We alreday have guns you can buy them in a shop. Why do we need a new way to make a weapon? One that is inferior to shop brough ones except in the ease or useing them in criminal activity.

Use that wonder to find a good use that could benifit the world!



Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Restricting 3d printing hurts everyone.

I agree but makeing guns is the wrong way.

edit on 11-5-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Some would say "everything lost" is a win in its own right. From rock bottom there's no direction but up.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 


Wonder goes both ways.

If it werent for good people wondering how to accomplish horrible things we'd all be defenseless and lost.

We already have cars at dealerships so why bother building one or restoring an old one?
edit on 11-5-2013 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:43 AM
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Retarted premise. Anyone with funds can setup a metal workshop and make guns if they want. That doesn't mean crc machines and such are something that require a license. And taking the leap from someone possibly making something into "terrorist who gets away scotch free" is pure hyperbole.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 

That's probably where our gap of logic for this starts in the most obvious way. Your idea of rock bottom and mine are just radically different. If you think we've already hit it, we're already starting from points that are a world apart. I may not disagree that we can see it from here ....but it's still a long way down there and this path only accelerates the fall. It does nothing to claw back up from where we've already dropped.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


You're right. I see we hit it a long time ago. Before I was born even. I'm not at all opposed to speeding the decent to get everyone else to see it. I'd like to experience a little liberty in my lifetime.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
(heavy sigh) I was afraid of this..... Someone HAD to use the very promising new technology to construct the most controversial and objectionable item physically possible ...so now, we may see the birth of a real miracle in potential nipped in the bud. Oh.. I hope to God that having a new gun which is almost worthless outside of murder or assassination, was worth it.

It's as bad as the Manhattan Project building that nightmare ....not on the basis of "Should We" (to read the words and accounts of the scientists themselves) but strictly on the basis of 'can we'?


The thing is...The tech is hardly NEW anyway. These are machines I was looking at over 2 years ago when I had some inheritance to work with as an idea to take for a business of my own. At the time, home kits which required some knowledge of industrial process and computer programming (nothing too extreme) were running out at $1,500 to $3,000 or so.

It wasn't until some jackwagon made a fully functional, nearly undetectable GUN with it that lawmakers bothered to even take notice. :shk:

.......a device that would make spare parts from potential solid state electronic components to engine parts when materials caught up to applications ....may now be killed in it's tracks. Thanks. Thanks a lot. I'm a gun owner and a proud one too ...but this was stupid on steroids to have done.
edit on 11-5-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)


Synchronicity - back in 1986, the government tried to place a ban on plastic guns because some jackwagon filed a patent on the design of a ceramic gun:

articles.latimes.com...



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 05:31 PM
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seeing as the eventual outcome of 3D printers could destroy capitlism as you know it Im surprised you Americans are so in favour of them.





By the way I think they are a great thing! At least for use for peacefull purposes.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 

Well now, I think most people I know who identify as conservative would agree that Capitalism is preferable because the others are worse (at least to what would work in the U.S., as such)....not that it's all that ideal or perfect.

Wouldn't we all like a world where the majority of mundane object and item production is supplied commercially by nothing more than base material in bulk bags? A bag of Poly...a Bag of Aluminum...a bag of whatever else and all loaded into dispensers tied up to a "Replicator". Which really is where this tech goes for it's logical conclusion, isn't it? It's years..maybe a decade or more of hard core innovation, from reaching anything recognizable in even a primitive way. However....that is the end result of this line of tech, I'm thinking.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by crazyewok
 

Well now, I think most people I know who identify as conservative would agree that Capitalism is preferable because the others are worse (at least to what would work in the U.S., as such)....not that it's all that ideal or perfect.

Wouldn't we all like a world where the majority of mundane object and item production is supplied commercially by nothing more than base material in bulk bags? A bag of Poly...a Bag of Aluminum...a bag of whatever else and all loaded into dispensers tied up to a "Replicator". Which really is where this tech goes for it's logical conclusion, isn't it? It's years..maybe a decade or more of hard core innovation, from reaching anything recognizable in even a primitive way. However....that is the end result of this line of tech, I'm thinking.


Im not saying that captislim is right or wrong.

My point is we will basicaly have startrek style replicators in the end. If the research into molecular printers works well and becomes affordable (even if its to small communtys rather than indiviuals) then production costs of things will shot through the floor. Money as we know it now would become valuless as the price and ease to make almost anything will become so small and easy.

Take food production. If you could grow the amino acids, Lipids and carbohyrdates in a lab (which you can and cheapy) and then just insert them into a printer to make food the argriculture becomes obsolete. You could create food on such a vast scale it would be pointless to charge anything but a few pennys.

Certain soclist policys that are expensive now like universal healthcare would become cheap. If drugs can be made at the fraction of the price why charge so much for health care? And if its cheap why not just allow it?

Public services like road and utility maintince would become dirt cheap.

Even the military complex will become cheaper to maintain as you can print weapons, bombs and equpment!

It wont be the death or captilism but it would shake the system up. Things wont be the same. The fact is the little man will have more power and the rich and powerfull less power.....
edit on 11-5-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)





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