Good or evil - How do you know?

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by benrl

 

So I suppose the OP you posted had nothing to do with answering the question posed, but simply for you to post that canned response. If you would like I could go in to great detail on the theology of the religion in question (as I could with most world religions, BA in theology) if you truly have theological questions based on the text I will by all means answer them to the best of my Ability. IF not however I bid you good day.

Sorry, Benrl, but no, I don't want to over analyze it. The bible wasn't written for theologians to glean hidden meanings from simple to read texts. It's for the common man, and it's very simple. Was the flood an evil thing? It's a yes or no choice. People aren't that stupid. Like AK said, we KNOW evil. Those that would deny it are the ones desperate to analyze it into obscurity.

Ok, which is why I didn't post a lengthy explanation of the concepts with associated verses and references to begin with.

reply to post by jiggerj

YOU SAID:
The bible tells us that god did these things:

killed everyone in a flood

---You must be born again. God did not take life, but preserved it. Ending the corruption of the watchers and fallen beings allowed mankind to be free from the tyranny.

YOU SAID: turned Lot's wife into a pillar of stone

---She was saved from a horrible existence and told to not look back. Just like his wife, God tells us to walk from our sins and not look back. The error was in her own desire to remain in a place should shouldn't have been in the first place. Follow the story by the overall context to know why they were there in the first place. Again, not God's decision. It was based on greed. All biblical stories are parallel to cycles of our own lives. They are parables.

YOU SAID: Let Lot escape the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah because he was a good man - a good man that had sex with his daughters.

-----No, his daughters tricked him. Genesis 19 - 34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

YOU SAID: God killed all of the firstborn of Egypt.

---You must be born again. God puts us where we are, gives us the spirit we use as consciousness, designs our bodies and allows for our entire life. We do not have a part in this. God cannot do anything to others that he is not doing for them in the end. God cannot doing anything to others without also doing it to himself.

YOU SAID: He played a terrible mind game on Abraham, making him think that he had to sacrifice his son.

---No, he demonstrated that our own wickedness would someday be covered by the perfect sacrifice of the Son, yet God would also provide a scapegoat (Satan).

----Again, God is doing this for us and not to us.

Good or evil, how do you know? One takes and the other gives. God cannot take without giving something better. There is a requirement in this. We must include ourselves in the giving. All scriptures tell the same stories. Read Rumi, the Dhammapada, Upanishads and so on. They all tell the story of restoration to God by union and love with His Spirit. Giving is the key to finding God's rope.

Read my last two threads:

Head of Days

A Ship Gliding over Nothing

I starred and flagged this because discernment is needed. All spectrums and paths seem to be presented in the bible and yet we're called to choose. To not is to lose consciousness/soul. Yet, dont want to put anyone's faith down, for people don't see eye to eye, with literal translations often and tend to have a belief in God/Goodness, regardless of certain passages anyway. But I agree, Christ said who their father was, and it reminded me of the movie, master of disguise, when for no reason, the main actor kept saying, who's your daddy, smack smack....and that movie was funny, but it also coded. And seems to relate to the old testament.

reply to post by jiggerj

Question: With such awesome displays of miraculous power by Jesus, and with such heinous atrocities committed by god, how would anyone know whether a thing was done by Satan or God? Maybe it only looks evil to us. Maybe it's really a good thing. How would any mere mortal know the difference?

Satan doesn't have that much power. He is only there to show others to learn not to stray from the path.

ALL is for learning, rather good or bad via perspective of said one seeing it.

reply to post by jiggerj

Evil is setting two people up to fail, like planting a forbidden tree in a garden with two humans bestowed with curiosity.

Do not think of it just in the perspective of man. Many things are done, because someone above suggests a path, and instead of Father saying no, we will not do it that way, he will allow it, so they can learn of their decisions.

reply to post by jiggerj


Ask Him.
God will never turn away a humble and sincere heart, for that is the only way we can hear Him.
He is already observing, waiting patiently for those whom He foreknew would seek Him.

The perspective of my children is greatly skewed from my own, as their parent. There are many things they cannot comprehend at their respective stages of development, and any attempt to explain it to them until they had gained the maturity, knowledge and experience to grasp it, would be futile.
Children are inherently self-centered, thus many times they perceive the actions of a parent as negative, although if able to see the bigger picture, would have the wisdom and understanding to see otherwise.

As God has truly revealed Himself throughout His creation, one of the most profound revelations in regard to our relationship with Him, is reflected through our relationship with our own children.
If the integrity of the Bible and the information it contains is as counterfeit as many attempt to purport, I would think that it would not be such a raw and brutal portrayal of the people and events within Its narrative.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Yes, yes! We all know evil, but just wait a sec because I'm sure someone will be along to dispute this.

God did not take life, but preserved it.
She was saved from a horrible existence
No, his daughters tricked him.
God cannot do anything to others that he is not doing for them in the end.

Hey Akragon! Did I call it or did I call it!

reply to post by WashMoreFeet

The perspective of my children is greatly skewed from my own, as their parent. There are many things they cannot comprehend at their respective stages of development,

Excellent, WMF. You stayed right on topic. So, how can we, mere mortals, know when an evil thing is done? Was Hitler evil, or was he god's instrument to teach the Jews (his chosen people) another lesson?

reply to post by benrl


You caught on to jigger pretty quick.
the thread is bait to draw people into
an arguement about someone (God)
that he professes he does not believe in.

Pretty aberrant psychology, if you
ponder the implications for a minute.

Like some one who hates ice cream
and sits in Baskin Robbins all day
shouting at others to quit liking ice cream.
While at the same time his ideology it tolerance and love.

My grandpa always told me: In truth there is no contradiction.

Originally posted by slugger9787
reply to post by benrl

 

You caught on to jigger pretty quick.
the thread is bait to draw people into
an arguement about someone (God)
that he professes he does not believe in.

Pretty aberrant psychology, if you
ponder the implications for a minute.

Like some one who hates ice cream
and sits in Baskin Robbins all day
shouting at others to quit liking ice cream.
While at the same time his ideology it tolerance and love.

My grandpa always told me: In truth there is no contradiction.

Isn't it AMAZING how the religious will focus on the writer and steer clear of the topic. Totally amazing. Other religious justify and blindly defend the flaws in biblical texts. Others want to pick apart every word in the bible and inject deep DEEP meanings in order to spin what is illogical into the logical - even though they fail at every turn.

The topic HERE is How do you know when something is done in the name of Satan or in the name of God, if god is capable of murderous acts?

If someone is supposedly possessed by a demon, how do you know that this isn't by god's design or by god's will?

Just tell me how do you know?

reply to post by jiggerj


Assumptions of ownership for this one life you live are founded on the premise that you have possession of anything around you. You do not. Assumptions of loss at death are just that--assumptions. Energy can neither be created or destroyed. Energy is information. At your essence, you are not the image here. Death is an illusion and this is an obvious conclusion. Fighting against God with the perceived moral high ground goes against what our intuition tells us. We must be born again and God is in this for our good. We are here to be refined and educated a children before inheriting our portion of the kingdom later. What we say and do matters and this gift can be squandered by pride and selfishness. Just as you sleep at night and wake to a new day, our lives are merely days in the grander scale of eternity. What can God take that he has not already given? What can he take that he does not then give again?

In light of the truth, your worlds against God are merely words against yourself. Each of us are expressions of energy. We are given the opportunity and the very Spirit we use. That Spirit belongs to God and we are borrowing this as a gift. God can take it back by his own will at any time. It is not ours to begin with.

Time is what keeps everything from happening at once. I choose to value the gift.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by WashMoreFeet

 

The perspective of my children is greatly skewed from my own, as their parent. There are many things they cannot comprehend at their respective stages of development,

Excellent, WMF. You stayed right on topic. So, how can we, mere mortals, know when an evil thing is done? Was Hitler evil, or was he god's instrument to teach the Jews (his chosen people) another lesson?

It would be relative to perspective.
Hitler carried out actions in which he perceived as prudent and necessary for a particular goal in which he deemed worthy.
Notwithstanding Hitler ultimately being the impetus behind WWII and the populations of countries involved in it, we also know that millions of Jews suffered tragically at his hands, however we do not have intimate knowledge of their personal experiences and how some found grace, mercy, spiritual epiphany, humbleness, strength, courage, and any other possible eternal jewel to add to their treasure chest of infinite life awaiting them in His Kingdom. Great sorrow is a breeder of great joy. All things must work themselves out to their resultant end, some of those processes being much more harrowing than others. But each person is a unique individual and what one man is able to bear, another deems impossible.

It is impossible to know what another human being experiences or comes to terms with at their moment of passing from this dimension and into the next. As Believers, we are to follow well-defined boundaries of moral behavior, but we are not to pass judgment upon those who don't. There is a very fine line between declaring the immoral truth of a matter versus condemning the person participating in it.
On the other hand, compassion and mercy should not devolve in to over-reason and excuse.

Don't be fooled: Ultimate Truth does, in fact, exist. There is also true evil. True evil entices with many truths, albeit, catered to the specific likes and dislikes of the person they are deceiving, however there is only One Ultimate Truth which sets the bar and never changes There is order and there is chaos. There is Light and there is dark. There is more that we do not know, than that which we do. It is a labor of love from one perspective, and a shrewed game of cat and mouse for the other.

Human beings can know, but not by their own abilities. We are a creation, not little gods, despite the deceptive attempts by many to claim otherwise. The only thing we are in control of is what each of us individually will choose from moment to moment. The only thing we truly possess at birth is personal choice, but even that is something that was given to us.

reply to post by jiggerj


Question:
How would anyone know whether a
thing was done by Satan or God?


Things are done in this dimension by an agent of free will, a human.

How would any mere
mortal know the difference?

sometimes you do not know, however God usually tells someone.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


The topic HERE is How do you know when something is done in the name of Satan or in the name of God, if god is capable of murderous acts?

reply to post by WashMoreFeet

Don't be fooled: Ultimate Truth does, in fact, exist. There is also true evil. True evil entices with many truths, albeit, catered to the specific likes and dislikes of the person they are deceiving, however there is only One Ultimate Truth which sets the bar and never changes There is order and there is chaos. There is Light and there is dark. There is more that we do not know, than that which we do. It is a labor of love from one perspective, and a shrewed game of cat and mouse for the other.

Well said, WMF. I don't know if you meant it to agree with the premise, but you did it. We cannot possibly know if a thing is done by the hand of a god or a devil. We cannot possibly know if a catastrophic event (be it world wide or on a personal level) is caused in order for it to transform into a greater good at a later point in time.

Originally posted by slugger9787
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Question:
How would anyone know whether a
thing was done by Satan or God?


Things are done in this dimension by an agent of free will, a human.

How would any mere
mortal know the difference?

sometimes you do not know, however God usually tells someone.

Excellent! I can't even argue with it.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

The topic HERE is How do you know when something is done in the name of Satan or in the name of God, if god is capable of murderous acts?

The one that gave life cannot murder. It's was His to begin with. We use HIS Spirit, not ours. I answered the question. Only a thief can take. God's will is to give. There is no paradox with God when He moves us from one time domain to another. You must be born again. God can move a life from one age to the next. It's His choice.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


If we use his spirit then wouldn't that mean we are his spirit, a.k.a. him? I don't understand why you feel the need to separate us from god.

Everything is connected Enoch...

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

If we use his spirit then wouldn't that mean we are his spirit, a.k.a. him? I don't understand why you feel the need to separate us from god.

Everything is connected Enoch...

God has said that some will be separated and cast out into outer darkness.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Separation is within the mind. If you believe you are separate then you will be, but those who know they are not separate from god know everyone else isn't either, even if those other people don't know it. God can be blind to himself, the religious are proof of that.

By believing god is an entity separate from yourself, you are separating yourself from god, even if you are still part of him and don't know it. We are all god (the universe) experiencing itself and learning about itself. If god is all-powerful, then he has the ability to experience himself from many different perspectives (you, me, and everyone else).

The glory of god is right in front of you and YOU are his "invisible qualities" as Paul puts it, a.k.a. knowledge, love, understanding, thoughts, etc. Your spirit is his spirit is Jesus' spirit. We are all connected and an integral part of god. Read the bible with that mindset and you may see it.

In a world full of lies, they WOULD teach us that we are separate from god, and the bible/koran/torah is the tool in which they use to separate us from god.

You know the Tower of Babel? "Babel" literally means "a confusing medley of sounds". The bible is a book of words, words are a medley of sounds, and the bible is confusing, hence the 40,000+ Christian denominations.

Little do you know, you are making the same exact mistake the Babylonians did by believing the bible (tower of babel) reaches to the heavens and is an intermediary between you and god. It is not. Although it may have abundant truth within it, the abundant lies overshadow and misrepresent the truth within it.