The 'Sovereign Person' defense.. does it work?

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posted on May, 10 2013 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by ivbnu
The government ALWAYS wins through


Well, the reason the government and the people win is the "Sovereign movement" is just a load of crap, and if you follow it you may end up in jail




posted on May, 10 2013 @ 02:52 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 
not trying to derail the Thread but the REAL ID act is up to the State to fight , but can not win, for if it is to become REAL ID free, it must suspend all FED GOV rights, thus secede from the USA. Thus becoming a Sovereign STATE. but can not be a state it would have to be a sole Country. and have its own Constitution, Internal law, and treaty rights, and UN approval, it would have to have a treaty of International law and trade plus it is own money, but being in the US border this could not be done.{ one of the reasons of the Civil war making money even though the south Secede from the Union,}
How not to secede www.cbsnews.com...

edit on 10-5-2013 by bekod because: line edit, word Correction



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 03:06 AM
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reply to post by bekod
 

It doesn't really matter what it takes, that is the Fed and the states problem for enacting an illegal law. It clearly violates the both federal and state constitutions in the fact that you have to present documents that are secure without a warrant. It clearly violates religious beliefs in the subjects of the “mark”, or graven images. It is being used in Florida for public Facial Recognition tracking, and again violates your rights.

edit on 5/10/2013 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 03:44 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 
I agree it does take the Power of Sate and Gov over the top , Is against the Constitution, in more than one Amendment 10th is one, the 9th is an other as well as the 4th www.law.cornell.edu... and lets not forget the 14th www.archives.gov... from the link

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

the REAL ID act and FACE recognition do just that, they deprive you of liberty, but then, national security takes precedence over civil rights, it is a no win.

But then if your doing nothing wrong, then why worry ?, when they come for you, for just being you. you have broken their laws, their beliefs, their ways of life, their liberty, is when it is to late to worry.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 04:04 AM
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I am not caught up on the ID issue you guys are discussing but I will say I believe and always have what Ben Franklin said

"Those that sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither"

I will research this farther and have more to say

Why don't one of you start a separate thread on it? If you do, link it too me please

Semper



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 04:11 AM
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reply to post by bekod
 


We are getting off topic here, I'll put a link to a thread on a more correct topic at the bottom of this post and we can carry this on over there.

To quickly answer your question though. I worry because it violates my religious beliefs. Others should worry because this allows real time tracking of you internationally via FR cameras. If the Soviets or the Germans had such a system, no one would have gotten out of those countries alive.

In essence what they have done here is put a checkpoint at every corner here in Florida that “checks your papers”, without actually having to have a jackbooted thug standing there holding up traffic. Now they can secretly do it via cameras that you are not even aware of.



This thread is a lot more on topic for this conversation.
Ron Paul says Gang of 8 Sneaking National ID Card in Immigration Reform
edit on 5/10/2013 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 04:30 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 
yes thank you ,
Back on topic ,

I am not new to the "SC" or Sovereign Citizen : I remember MT, OR, doing their non GOV. I.D, D.L. and TAX bit in the 80's and 90's not till a few got in the news or shot, the big one OK city, that I decide enough is enough.

That it was all an act and scam, one was to make you an enemy of the sate the other to con you out of hard made money that in the end would cost you more money as in fines or jail er Prison or both.

Yes I listen to both sides and come to my own conclusion,and that is "SC" is nothing but scam ,and the ones that fall for it or believe in it are in for a world of hurt.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 07:00 AM
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I recommend that you start small. First, practice convincing a mugger that he is not legally entitled to take your money. When you can do that successfully, then try it with the Government.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 08:15 AM
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I know if you come here to Louisiana and even MENTION the words soveriegn citizen while pulled over you will be dragged out and a gun put in your face! We have had several officer related killing by so called soveriegn citizens in the last coule of years. The last one took 3 officer's lives and several were injured in a 2 hour gun battle. No reason why it started. Couple guys pulled up to officers directing traffic for the plants in LaPlace and just opened fire. Chase to trailer park and then the fireworks really let go. So yeah if you say it here we DO NOT play with it. We treat those words the same as you saying "I'm about to kill you".



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 03:30 PM
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No it does not work, and state and federal governments are quietly cracking down on these people.

Do you like having nice roads and the ability to call 911 in an emergency? Do yourself a favor and pay your income taxes.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 03:51 PM
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If you have assets to loose or you mind spending time in jail, I wouldn't try the stupid sovereign citizen defense.

I think that it's just a scam. People with assets are the ones that lose big time.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by defcon5
 


I understand and agree that the methods that the "sovereign" movement have taken are not wholly rooted in supposed "Constitutional law" or even Common Law. That said, why should we take your word as authority? Because you invoked that you are connected to a lawyer? Just listen and comply?

That part of the "sovereign" movement I can agree with in part. Sorry Defcon; you are respected and your posts are solid, but just because you say so (or in this case you say your employer says so) I think that is part of the problem.
edit on 10-5-2013 by ownbestenemy because: (no reason given)


You dont have to take his word for any of it. Take the word of the courts that have rejected the whole idea. It is a risk vs. reward thing here, and the risk of trying this kind of defense is much, much greater than the potential reward.





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