This Video Of One Half-Second Of High Frequency Trading Is Insane, Terrifying

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posted on May, 9 2013 @ 07:00 PM
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This Video Of One Half-Second Of High Frequency Trading Is Insane, Terrifying


www.huffingtonpost.com

A terrifying new video by the research firm Nanex offers just such an opportunity: It shows one half-second of trading in just one stock, boring old Johnson & Johnson, on May 2. The video slows down the trades so that the milliseconds -- thousandths of a second -- tick slowly by, and so that human eyes can comprehend what's happening.

What you see is trading gone haywire, hopelessly beyond the control of any regulators that might want to make sure all of these trades are legitimate.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.ft.com




posted on May, 9 2013 @ 07:00 PM
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There have been various calls occasionally for control of automated trading, and this video (it is embeded in an article) shows just what it is that high-speed trading looks like!

Insane? A logical development? Helps the market maintain equilibrium?? you make up your own mind, as always, but I'm with the writer for the reasons stated - it is not possible to properly oversee legality, and it drives people wout of hte market if they do not have this ability.

the additional link is to an article from last year about a call to slow trading down.

www.huffingtonpost.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 07:11 PM
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A vast majority of our current economic malaise is the simple existence of daytraders and instant online trading...markets can be driven at the whim of a simple tweet...tweet the President has been rushed to the hospital and the market will fall 150 points, until the truth gets out...why?

DAYTRADERS...AKA people out for kicks...



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Very cool.


I'd like to see what it looked like just before 9/11, OKC, Boston, a few schools here and there....aw hell, why exclude Vietnam, Iraq, WW2....

Curious as to what it's starting to look like now just before Iran, Syria etc.

Peace



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 07:48 PM
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OMG and this is just a drop in the ocean!! This is not human...machines are definitely too powerful. Funny thought, it's literally a Universe of trading and transactions, as infinite as the one our planet is supposed to be part of.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 08:34 PM
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It has become all about high volume, short term, automated trading and speculation.

And banks shouldn't be involved with investment management. Commercial banks used to operate seperately from stock brokers, I guess not anymore.

The sixth protocol of the learned elders of zion, that supposedly does not exist, highlights the acquisition of land and the encouragement of speculation.

I am for small-to-mid scale capitalism and long term investment. The ultra-capitalist zionists call it "socialism" or maybe even communism.

Propaganda is everything! You can turn # to gold if you repeat the same lie again and again. Sometimes I wonder why I even bother on ATS other than the entertainment value which never gets old. Its better than playing some old dos games.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by totallackey
A vast majority of our current economic malaise is the simple existence of daytraders and instant online trading...markets can be driven at the whim of a simple tweet...tweet the President has been rushed to the hospital and the market will fall 150 points, until the truth gets out...why?

DAYTRADERS...AKA people out for kicks...


Or ahmadinjihad's message about israel got purposefully mistranslated to imply "wipe israel off the map". Or maybe netanyahu farted really loud and scared the palestinians.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 11:58 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Isn't "mid capitalist" kind of what the EU is?

I mean, there is no doubt that the full on venture capitalism that is seen in the US is at best a dead end, and most likely a self destruct. But it seems that "mid capitalist" doesn't work either.

It would seem that barring other massive innovations, the current parameters of the economic game are known. Thus, it would seem that a few relatively simple laws might fix this issue. Market regulation is something I don't have issue with. Nor labor regulation (as a way to moot labor unions, which are festering boils of corruption). But when it comes to taxation....no. It is shown to be causing failure worldwide. The method of taxation that capitalism has provided for, even in a "mid capitalist" incarnation, seem to be causing these systems to be on life support.

And it is obvious why socialism and communism have failed. Not to mention every single other political system.

And that is the problem here: no one really knows what the hell they are talking about. The proof is in the pudding. Or, rather, the lack of pudding in this case. The little guy always gets screwed, no matter how righteous those doing the screwing feel they may be.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 02:08 AM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


This is exactly the reason gold and silver are trading so low. Silver hovering around $24. Whatever. These machines NEED to be controlled!



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 06:20 AM
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Is it scary because you don't understand it?

HFT lowers volatility, increases liquidity, and massively decreases transaction costs. They're modern day market-makers. They've replaced market makers similar to how cars replaced horse and buggies.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 06:23 AM
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Originally posted by totallackey
A vast majority of our current economic malaise is the simple existence of daytraders and instant online trading...markets can be driven at the whim of a simple tweet...tweet the President has been rushed to the hospital and the market will fall 150 points, until the truth gets out...why?

DAYTRADERS...AKA people out for kicks...


So, um, do tell -- without daytraders and high frequency traders, who would you buy your stock from, sell your stock to, and how much extra would you be willing to pay?



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 06:25 AM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
It has become all about high volume, short term, automated trading and speculation.

And banks shouldn't be involved with investment management. Commercial banks used to operate seperately from stock brokers, I guess not anymore.

The sixth protocol of the learned elders of zion, that supposedly does not exist, highlights the acquisition of land and the encouragement of speculation.

I am for small-to-mid scale capitalism and long term investment. The ultra-capitalist zionists call it "socialism" or maybe even communism.

Propaganda is everything! You can turn # to gold if you repeat the same lie again and again. Sometimes I wonder why I even bother on ATS other than the entertainment value which never gets old. Its better than playing some old dos games.


The Protocols of the Elders of Zion were actually a hoax. You're sitting there advocating destroying livelihoods and forcing people at gunpoint to succumb to your ignorant political and economic views, borne out of racism and blatant lies (eg the Protocols). And you feel other people are the evil ones..



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 07:13 AM
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There are two relatively simple ways to fix the issues with HFT. The first would be a transaction tax on all trades. Some very healthy markets have such a tax, but I would prefer exposing all trades to execution risk before simply taxing. I've heard some pretty good arguments that HFTs are notorious for putting in thousands of bids with no intention to execute in order to move price one way or another then cancelling the bids and executing at the desired price. Make all orders valid for some time period to expose them to execution risk (this time frame would possible be as little as miliseconds and probably no longer than a handful of seconds).

Unlike market makers HFTs have no obligation to remain in the market during "events". Just read up on the "flash crash". The HFTs turned off during it and the market didn't rebound until old style MMs got in the pits and put a bid under things. Market Makers get a privileged position in markets in exchange for an obligation to be the market when normal trading isn't putting buyers and sellers together. HFTs have no such obligation, and there is tons of evidence that HFTs are basically stealing billions of dollars pennies (or fractions thereof) at a time. Google "Nanex and HFT" and evaluate what they present yourself.

Commercial banks should definitely be separate from investing houses, Glaas-Steagal worked for damn near 3/4's of a century insulating depositors from gamblers on Wall Street. The next crash will be the third since it was gutted in the late nineties, and I think it is at most 2-3 years away.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by RedDragon
Is it scary because you don't understand it?

HFT lowers volatility, increases liquidity, and massively decreases transaction costs. They're modern day market-makers. They've replaced market makers similar to how cars replaced horse and buggies.



if HFT runs too fast to regulate, then people are stealing with it, human nature 101, then it should not be used.

what happens when the "too big to fail" banks use the "too fast to regulate HFT" what do you have left? good luck with selling me the sermon on that one, thanks but no thanks.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 08:09 AM
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have no idea what im watching when i saw that. looks like a colorful atari game...



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Yep,humans no longer control our own economies-the robots are taking over bit by bit.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 09:03 AM
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I'm a day trader/swing trader in the market. Love my job. Easiest cash I'll ever make. Anyway there was a flash crash because of a tweet saying that the white house has been bombed and obama was in critical condition. I had a $40k position in SPY and lost a little more than half of that in seconds. Almost ALMOST sold for a $25k loss but I didn't because the algos were bidding up the market a couple minutes later, and I went back to having my $8k profit. Just think, it took ONE TWEET to take the Dow -100 in seconds. God I love this market.



ETA: I don't remember what the tweet said. Idk if that's what it said so sorry if it's not.
edit on 10-5-2013 by iSeeKEnlightenment8o5 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by LittleBlackEagle

Originally posted by RedDragon
Is it scary because you don't understand it?

HFT lowers volatility, increases liquidity, and massively decreases transaction costs. They're modern day market-makers. They've replaced market makers similar to how cars replaced horse and buggies.


if HFT runs too fast to regulate, then people are stealing with it, human nature 101, then it should not be used.
what happens when the "too big to fail" banks use the "too fast to regulate HFT" what do you have left? good luck with selling me the sermon on that one, thanks but no thanks.



Since intelligence = rate of thought * efficiency of thought, should it be illegal to be intelligent? Are intelligent people doing something automatically ignoring property rights?
edit on 5/10/13 by RedDragon because: (no reason given)
edit on 5/10/13 by RedDragon because: (no reason given)
edit on 5/10/13 by RedDragon because: (no reason given)
edit on 5/10/13 by RedDragon because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by jefwane
There are two relatively simple ways to fix the issues with HFT. The first would be a transaction tax on all trades. Some very healthy markets have such a tax, but I would prefer exposing all trades to execution risk before simply taxing. I've heard some pretty good arguments that HFTs are notorious for putting in thousands of bids with no intention to execute in order to move price one way or another then cancelling the bids and executing at the desired price. Make all orders valid for some time period to expose them to execution risk (this time frame would possible be as little as miliseconds and probably no longer than a handful of seconds).

Unlike market makers HFTs have no obligation to remain in the market during "events". Just read up on the "flash crash". The HFTs turned off during it and the market didn't rebound until old style MMs got in the pits and put a bid under things. Market Makers get a privileged position in markets in exchange for an obligation to be the market when normal trading isn't putting buyers and sellers together. HFTs have no such obligation, and there is tons of evidence that HFTs are basically stealing billions of dollars pennies (or fractions thereof) at a time. Google "Nanex and HFT" and evaluate what they present yourself.

Commercial banks should definitely be separate from investing houses, Glaas-Steagal worked for damn near 3/4's of a century insulating depositors from gamblers on Wall Street. The next crash will be the third since it was gutted in the late nineties, and I think it is at most 2-3 years away.


A transaction tax is impossible because it would simply drive all trading offshore to Hong Kong, Singapore, etc.

Commercial banks would be proportionally separate from investing houses, portions allotted by reward/ risk, if there were no government guaranteed deposit insurance. Deposit insurance removes the risk part from the portions of bank resources allotted to investment houses, thus allowing an investor's tolerable investing activity by a bank to be infinite.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Isn't "mid capitalist" kind of what the EU is?

I mean, there is no doubt that the full on venture capitalism that is seen in the US is at best a dead end, and most likely a self destruct. But it seems that "mid capitalist" doesn't work either.

It would seem that barring other massive innovations, the current parameters of the economic game are known. Thus, it would seem that a few relatively simple laws might fix this issue. Market regulation is something I don't have issue with. Nor labor regulation (as a way to moot labor unions, which are festering boils of corruption). But when it comes to taxation....no. It is shown to be causing failure worldwide. The method of taxation that capitalism has provided for, even in a "mid capitalist" incarnation, seem to be causing these systems to be on life support.

And it is obvious why socialism and communism have failed. Not to mention every single other political system.

And that is the problem here: no one really knows what the hell they are talking about. The proof is in the pudding. Or, rather, the lack of pudding in this case. The little guy always gets screwed, no matter how righteous those doing the screwing feel they may be.


The people at the top control everything in an evil way. That is the reason why no system can succeed. This is the simplest way of putting it without writing a 100 page essay(at least) and going massively off-topic. Sure everyone is corrupt to a degree but what we are seeing, massive corruption everywhere is far from normal.

The problem with taxes is that people who can't really afford to pay them are getting hit hard and the people who can afford to pay them are paying very little if any. Offshoring in this global enviroment is easy if you know what you are doing. There many legal ways to bring down taxable income, there many tax haven nations, there are also such things as private bank accounts. The upper middle class has been supporting the lower middle class and poor for many decades now. Billionares and trillionares don't have to follow the same rules and politicians themselves are known to be involved in insider trading which is illegal for most folks.

What we have is monopolistic globalism where american multinational firms absolutely dominate the international markets and literaly choke all other competition to death. That is why the word trade organisation meetings failed initially but since then the evil doing has remained. We used to have TARIFFS in the old days but since wall street literally controlls the american government and other governments, no one has the balls to put tariffs on imports or regulate the markets.





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