The racist mindset of liberals, black or white

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by FyreByrd
Please tell that to minimum wage slaves in this freedom loving country called the USA.

To equate those who are willingly working in exchange for minimum wage pay with genuine slaves is doing further disservice to those unfortunate enough to actually be slaves. There's a fairly large difference between willingly working in exchange for pay, regardless of how low that pay is, and being forced to work for nothing while being horribly mistreated. The former has the option of walking away at any time, the latter is treated like property that can be used, abused, and thrown away when the "owner" tires of it or deems it to have lost it's usefulness.

Spoken like a true corporatist. Read some history. Read about 'company towns'. Taking any work you can get to keep your family from starving isn't freedom it is slavery. In fact, true 'slaves' as you call them, are fed, housed and clothed by their 'owners', however badly. A wage slave has nothing but a paycheck that is insufficient to meet his, let alone his family's, needs.

Originally posted by ButterCookie

The rich getting richer has nothing to do with the poor. Not sure why liberal ideology teaches that.

Of course it does.

How ignorant can someone be about how capitalism makes wealth?

No ideology has to teach that, it is a known fact about capitalism if you understand what it actually is.

Just take Africa for a glaringly obvious example. Who, and why, do you think Europeans colonised Africa? To help the natives? No, they did it to take ownership of land, which left the natives no land to live on, or hunt on, or grow food on, what do you expect would happen? Poverty, while the capitalists get wealthy selling coffee and bananas to Europeans. A lot of Africa is still under the control of foreign nations. Simply because the natives did not have the infrastructure to stem the invasion. So now Africa is a complete chit hole mess with thousands starving on a regular basis.

Poverty is the lack of the means to produce what you need. Before capitalism started in Britain we were allowed to occupy unused land and live on it, build a house and grow crops. The land owners stopped this with the enactment of the Inclosure laws, which allowed them to fence off their land, and deny it's use to anyone. It took about 150 years for the enclosure of land in Britain to be complete.

That is when our freedom was replace with economic private ownership that forced us to take "jobs" in the factories and mills of the land owners. In 1840 a French socialist, Louis Blanc, coined a term for this system, CAPITALISM, "The appropriation of capital at the expense of others".

In our modern times we have a perfect example of how capitalism operates, outsourcing to cheaper labour markets, that destroys communities in your own country. Not the fault of the workers, the fault of the economic private owners who see profit as more important than people.

Capitalism always goes to the cheapest labour market, now the economy is global they have a larger cheap labour market. But in the long term that destroys our economy, creates poverty, which when China's labour market becomes too expensive America will be poor enough to become the new cheap labour market. Because of this the working class (mostly minorities in the US) never improves financially as a class, and are always kept to the lower classes. That has to happen to ensure capitalism always has a labour pool because labour is where all the real money is made that is then used to invest.

Individuals can get wealthy in capitalism, but not communities, and when communities are in poverty you get all the social problems we have now.

Capitalism IS the cause of poverty, because it monopolises the means of production to make profit for a minority class. If the workers owned the means of production there would be no poverty, or at least it would be dramatically reduced.

reply to post by ButterCookie


Sweeping generalizations much?! Come on! I myself am liberal and do not consider myself racist. Everything I debate/discuss about race. This thread is kind of ridiculous.

Originally posted by Jennyfrenzy
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

Sweeping generalizations much?! Come on! I myself am liberal and do not consider myself racist. Everything I debate/discuss about race. This thread is kind of ridiculous.

Of course you do not 'consider yourself as a racist'. This is learned behavior that eventually becomes accepted.

During the post Civil War era, former slave owners (southern Democrats) were upset by not only losing the war, but at the fact that their former slaves were freed and now had the right the right to vote; indicating a major shift in the status quo.

This hatred of northerners and freed slaves (Republicans) was then taught to their children, and their children, and their children.

Even today, liberal policies indicate the resentment toward minorities being free- not being dependent on government. Their decendents had taught them that blacks cannot take care of themselves and need government assitance.

They also excuse any negative behavior by minorities, as they were also taught that these were a savage people.

This is why modern day liberals (especially white) do not 'consider themselves as racist'.

reply to post by Jennyfrenzy

This thread is kind of ridiculous.

Ditto that

The OP seems to think the Civil War happened about 3 years ago - and that the Republicans of today are the ones who ended slavery

funny - kinda

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by Jennyfrenzy

 

This thread is kind of ridiculous.

Ditto that

The OP seems to think the Civil War happened about 3 years ago - and that the Republicans of today are the ones who ended slavery

funny - kinda

Where does is appear that I think the Civil War happened about 3 years ago?

And how can I imply that modern Republicans end slavery, which occured some 200 years ago?

Again, attempt to deconstruct the argument that appears on the screen, not an imagined one.

reply to post by ButterCookie


Ha Ha Ms.Cookie

I envy your mad time juggling skills - and your redecorating of history, along with this ability you have to see everything in black and white

That life were really so simple - how much less thinking I would have to do

Why, until I read this thread of yours I had no idea how racist I really am - and how racist you are not

thanks for that

:-)

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

Ha Ha Ms.Cookie

I envy your mad time juggling skills - and your redecorating of history, along with this ability you have to see everything in black and white

That life were really so simple - how much less thinking I would have to do

Why, until I read this thread of yours I had no idea how racist I really am - and how racist you are not

thanks for that

:-)

Please indicate the history that I have been 'juggling' as I am a true history lover. I always make sure that my facts are straight.

reply to post by ButterCookie

There's a reply to your OP somewhere in this thread from me - not that it matters now - the same point has been made over and over by many other people. They did a pretty good job too

I'll leave you with a couple of quotes - from you:

Liberals tend to shout racism, as one poster stated, to incite hatred and keeps the country divided.

The racist mindset of liberals, black or white

Lovely thread - nice work

Originally posted by FyreByrd
Spoken like a true corporatist.

I don't think that word means what you think it means. Nor does it really apply to what I said in my post. But congratulations, you've found the one word that hasn't been used to describe me in the last 7 years. I'm truly impressed.

Read some history. Read about 'company towns'. Taking any work you can get to keep your family from starving isn't freedom it is slavery. In fact, true 'slaves' as you call them, are fed, housed and clothed by their 'owners', however badly. A wage slave has nothing but a paycheck that is insufficient to meet his, let alone his family's, needs.

Yes, to heck with those who are bought and sold like property and are only permitted to live as long as their "owner" deems them useful. They don't have anything on the people who freely accept a job for pay, regardless of how low that pay is, and are able to walk out the door whenever they want. Those are the real slaves. [/sarcasm]

Unfortunately, the ability to take a job at all without being told that you will do job A because you're told to is, in fact, an element of freedom. And yes, real slaves are fed, housed and clothed. Do you understand why? Because they are considered property. As a general rule, people do a certain amount of upkeep on the property. I change the oil in my car and clean my house. Slave owners keep their "property" alive so they can continue being useful. Hard to get a corpse to work your fields and assembly lines or service your clients, isn't it? They are given what is necessary to keep them alive and productive and no more.

Many people in this world work paycheck to paycheck. It has nothing to do with slavery and everything to do with greedy corporations who want more money in their own pockets and so will pay the absolute minimum they can get by with and still have people willing to work for them. It's definitely an issue, but seeing as how those workers are able to walk away without being killed for their trouble they aren't slaves.

You may want to look into the minimum wage and why it was implemented. It certainly wasn't to provide a living wage as you seem to think it should based on the above quote. Unless you're shifting goal posts on me and talking about something completely unrelated to the post I replied to or my own post, in which case my response here is a bit irrelevant. Regardless, we're going a bit off topic here.

Originally posted by On7a7higher7plane
reply to post by pierregustavetoutant

 

I think that it's more of a matter of keeping America competitive, not one of oppressing minorities through handouts.

I think it's the GOP is more oppressive towards minorities. They appear to want to scrap many liberal programs that directly assist the "poor" in becoming a part of the middle class. Scrap minimum - wage, tons of federal college aid, etc. These seem to be high up on the GOP's list of priorities. At least when it comes to their rhetoric. I have trouble believing the higher ups in the GOP actually seriously want to cut back on much of those programs. And I doubt even less that they have any hope in actually succeeding in that goal.

I don't see how Republicans can believe any real person would buy the alleged fact that somehow giving financial assistance to those who are less well off than the rest of us is possibly oppression.

Experience and history have shown us that the creation of dependence is the most destructive oppression possible. I would agree that most Republicans are just as much an enemy to the people as all Democrats are. I would defend them only in that a small but growing faction do indeed seem to support values that allow people the freedom to succeed or fail without the oppressive hand of big brother or nanny to ensure all fail. Never trust a politician, though. Use them as an employee and fire them when they fail in their duties.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by ButterCookie

The rich getting richer has nothing to do with the poor. Not sure why liberal ideology teaches that.

Of course it does.

How ignorant can someone be about how capitalism makes wealth?

No ideology has to teach that, it is a known fact about capitalism if you understand what it actually is.

Just take Africa for a glaringly obvious example. Who, and why, do you think Europeans colonised Africa? To help the natives? No, they did it to take ownership of land, which left the natives no land to live on, or hunt on, or grow food on, what do you expect would happen? Poverty, while the capitalists get wealthy selling coffee and bananas to Europeans. A lot of Africa is still under the control of foreign nations. Simply because the natives did not have the infrastructure to stem the invasion. So now Africa is a complete chit hole mess with thousands starving on a regular basis.

Poverty is the lack of the means to produce what you need. Before capitalism started in Britain we were allowed to occupy unused land and live on it, build a house and grow crops. The land owners stopped this with the enactment of the Inclosure laws, which allowed them to fence off their land, and deny it's use to anyone. It took about 150 years for the enclosure of land in Britain to be complete.

That is when our freedom was replace with economic private ownership that forced us to take "jobs" in the factories and mills of the land owners. In 1840 a French socialist, Louis Blanc, coined a term for this system, CAPITALISM, "The appropriation of capital at the expense of others".

In our modern times we have a perfect example of how capitalism operates, outsourcing to cheaper labour markets, that destroys communities in your own country. Not the fault of the workers, the fault of the economic private owners who see profit as more important than people.

Capitalism always goes to the cheapest labour market, now the economy is global they have a larger cheap labour market. But in the long term that destroys our economy, creates poverty, which when China's labour market becomes too expensive America will be poor enough to become the new cheap labour market. Because of this the working class (mostly minorities in the US) never improves financially as a class, and are always kept to the lower classes. That has to happen to ensure capitalism always has a labour pool because labour is where all the real money is made that is then used to invest.

Individuals can get wealthy in capitalism, but not communities, and when communities are in poverty you get all the social problems we have now.

Capitalism IS the cause of poverty, because it monopolises the means of production to make profit for a minority class. If the workers owned the means of production there would be no poverty, or at least it would be dramatically reduced.

edit on 5/15/2013 by ANOK because: (no reason given)

Perhaps you should educate yourself. What you describe is mercantilism, which is a far cry from free market capitalism.
Your definition of "capitalism" is similar to what the priestly class (academics and media heads) preach as their rather irrational and destructive religion. The priest class is always sycophantic to authority and need demagoguery and fear to maintain their power. They and their masters know what is best for you! Right....that's the ticket

reply to post by pierregustavetoutant


But neither side does anything about the oppressive economic system we have.

An oppressive state, and an oppressive economic system, go hand in hand, because it requires a large economic disparity to give them the economic power needed to oppress people. Oppression starts with the economy, and if you support an oppressive economic system you are oppressing yourself.

Capitalism is the only way for a minority class to gain the economic power in order to oppress others.

Only the wealthy, and powerful, can escape a tyrannical oppressive economic system.

It is curious that this thread is still active, calling all Liberals racists based off a conversation with a friend, while a recent thread has just been shut down showing a correlation of American Right Wing politics and racism sourced with an article.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


It's just very odd that one would be allowed to stay up while the other is shut down....curious.

reply to post by ButterCookie


Comments? Oh, yeah! This is SO in line with a lot of reports and video I have been looking at the past few days, on the "flash mob" stuff going on in various places.

1. You have a lot more sense than your friend.

2. She's bought into the lie, perpetuated by those in power, that is used to divide people, and inflame racial tensions.

3. All your points to her were very sensible, logical, and accurate.

4. I don't know a single white person that was raised to be racist. I spend my childhood in the South, mid 60's to early 70's, and had neighborhood friends that were black, and none of the families understood a reason for the rioting going on in some places. I remember the parents talking about how stupid it all was.

5. Virtually all of the racism I have personally seen was from non-whites. Some were black, some Hispanic. I have known many in both groups that were NOT racist, but the racists I saw were from those groups, and also some Muslims.

I wish your friend and others could see the reality. When people talk about violent action, they promote racism, and distrust of their race. When people attack someone for being white, they cause distrust. If I saw family members acting like some of the people in videos I have watched, they would get a smack in the head, were I close enough, and a real earful if I wasn't close. I am sure you know the sort of behavior I mean. I KNOW not all blacks are like that, and can imagine how frustrating seeing such things is.

I truly believe most of this racial tension is deliberate, with people being played, to stir things up, set one side against another for political gain, and to control various groups for the same. Those doing the manipulating don't care about the people at all, or how much pain they cause. They only care about power. All we can do is try and point out the truth, and attempt to show people that they can avoid being used in such a fashion.

S&F for the post, on such a sensitive topic.

Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by pierregustavetoutant

 

But neither side does anything about the oppressive economic system we have.

An oppressive state, and an oppressive economic system, go hand in hand, because it requires a large economic disparity to give them the economic power needed to oppress people. Oppression starts with the economy, and if you support an oppressive economic system you are oppressing yourself.

Capitalism is the only way for a minority class to gain the economic power in order to oppress others.

Only the wealthy, and powerful, can escape a tyrannical oppressive economic system.

edit on 5/17/2013 by ANOK because: (no reason given)

So why not try to become wealthy and powerful? Why do liberals view success and wealth as evil?

Sounds like an oppressive state of mind...

I could explain it to you very well. But apparently my opinions and viewpoints are not welcome on this site. Every single time I try to explain why racism exists my posts get deleted and I get a warning. I am sick of it. The truth is not allowed here and apparently never will be. So threads like yours will never be allowed to be commented on with honesty. I am about done with this site. I despise being censored for my views. Good luck getting any honesty.

reply to post by ButterCookie


There is a hatred of the whites from a lot of blacks because the liberal democrats perpetuate it by the way they talk to blacks. One poster here claimed racism comes from white Christian farmers. "Huh?" But it goes to show you that what is at the base level of it is hatred. So they believe the lie that Republicans are racists and that conservatives are racists. They forget it was a Republican that fought to end slavery. It cost him his life, and the lives of hundreds of thousands who paid in blood to right the wrong of slavery. But they buy the liberal lies because the liberals need a scapegoat to focus on to keep power and all the while the very people they claim to want to help they hurt.

But, I am always amazed.

Originally posted by Fromabove
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

There is a hatred of the whites from a lot of blacks because the liberal democrats perpetuate it by the way they talk to blacks. One poster here claimed racism comes from white Christian farmers. "Huh?" But it goes to show you that what is at the base level of it is hatred. So they believe the lie that Republicans are racists and that conservatives are racists. They forget it was a Republican that fought to end slavery. It cost him his life, and the lives of hundreds of thousands who paid in blood to right the wrong of slavery. But they buy the liberal lies because the liberals need a scapegoat to focus on to keep power and all the while the very people they claim to want to help they hurt.

But, I am always amazed.

edit on 21-5-2013 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)

Oh yes indeed.

I agree, and even by reading the posts on here, a lot of that racism is being denied. They are also taught that being independent, successful and educated is evil, which I find unbelievably oppressing,

reply to post by ButterCookie


Well your frined is very simplistic in her analysis. Does any one race has a monopoly on evil? Hell no.

However you are aldo following a very simplistic line of reasoning as not all liberals think as your frined does..

Liberals are a "live and let live" group as per the definition.

Simplistic thinking in terms of politics achieves simple solutions.

I do not want reparations for black people I just want all the racist BS to end FOR EVERYONE (yes that means racism against Jews and Whites).