Dissuasion from the Lord

Originally posted by ThreeBears

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by littled16

 

You know though that really not what it all says. It says some were born for destruction, some fall off the path which is strait, not everyone is accepted. Just saying, not trying to start anything here.

said EVERY EVIL MURDERER and CHILD RAPIST to have ever lived...GENOCIDAL MANIAC, etc.,

THIS, is the Entitlement EXCUSE of ever time to justify any evil they do to others, always who have zero power, to Justify their

Rapes, murders, thieving, soul destruction, abuse.

Elitism, at it's worst, NARCISSISM in its full Entirity.

And the biggest COP OUT to not take any action to help one who needs it, the excuse for Slavery, Mass genocide and every Other DEMONIC Manifestation there is,

Determinism...Supremacy, Entitlement and typical from the NOBLE Class who GOT that way from Murdering and Terrorism. Any who would SPEND eternity with these types, have to be Demons,

Animals don't even act this way, nothing in Nature is That Arrogant.

It is the Motto of DEATH, Destroyer.

Absolutley no Life and Definately no LOVE in that Demonic doctrine.

Well yea your friends, the demons will be and already are rejected. Poor things.

Jesus said that because the gate is so strait few will find it. Sounds like a matter of personal responsibility and free will. And yet he also said that He spoke in parables so some would not understand.....yea He didn't want them to understand.

All I am saying is that closer review of His words produce an entirely different understanding of Him rather than the peace love all are welcome ect. You sound like you haven't studied the matter and are in love with some ideas about Him that do not define Him in totality.

I suggest you rid yourself of the hippie jesus, traveling love boy stuff.

Originally posted by honested3

Originally posted by Logarock

It doesn't mean that as Christians we are to accept people and THEN condemn them, but it was for said purpose, and also for the reader's knowledge. It would be like if a parent accepted a troublesome child, but then never was a parent to them from that point on. But as Christians we are definitely supposed to accept all people. As Littled16 said, it is our commandment to love everyone, it doesn't say condemn, the condemnation part is the Lord's work to show, just as is the working in the person's life, we as Christians are there to accept and to love, and have questions when asked, and yes you can bring up the fact that people are sinful without judging the individual on a personal level.

Now this is good and we would all hope to be treated this way....with ever continuing nurturing to lead to growth with compassion and not condemnation. However this status seems to be reserved for some people or people living in a constant state of repentance and grace. People that have eyes to see and ears to hear. It will be found with closer examination that this is not the case for all. Some men's doings are shown in the hear and now while the doings of others will be shown later. Some men's condemnation goes before them for all to see while for others their is a day reserved when the truth will be shown up. Now to say this is the Lords work only is generally true but in the wider exercise of apostolic/prophetic authority we find the apostles condemning people and behavior just as Jesus did. Not all behavior is to be ultimately tolerated from the body.... those that oppose the truth... false brothers...ect. We are told to judge the sprits, test the spirits, reprove the unruly, reject heresy, approach a brother in fault carefully, as not to fall into the same trap, but ultimately reject some. No where did Christ ever say that all would pass from death to life simply because of His death and resurrection. The teaching of such over the years has produced a sick church and a false understanding of Christ. A poor understanding of grace has also produced a generation of libertine "christians" which are not so entrenched that we will have to wait until the separation of the wheat and tears to see their good riddance.

Like many of the others posting herein, I was "dissuaded" by the realization that many of the teachings of Christ have been corrupted to the point of being unrecognizable. What was the intent behind that corruption? I can't claim to know entirely... But given that the corruption took place at the hands of men appointed to their positions by other men? The reasons were purely for the sake of power and position. ...and the corruption continues today, for much the same reasons.

So, I'll continue to believe in Deity, but not dogma.

In response to not all will be saved(delivered from the realm of death...hades)These are but a "few" scriptures that completely contradict the doctrine of "some are saved and some are sentenced to the "eternal" punishment of "hell".


Eph. 1:10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works ALL THINGS according to the counsel of HIS WILL[not mans]."

1 Cor 15:22For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

Philp 2:9Why God also has highly exalted him, and given him a NAME (Yahoshua... Gods salvation) which is above every name[nature]: That at the name of Jesus(Yahoshua) EVERY knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus[Gods salvation] Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Heb. 2:9 "And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours ONLY but also for the sins of the WHOLE world."

1Timothy 2:3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God OUR Savior;Who WILL have ALL men to be SAVED, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering towards us, NOT WILLING that ANY should perish, but that ALL will come to repentance[change]."

Is. 53:2(John 12:32) "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, WILL draw ALL men unto Me.

Titus 2:11 The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL MEN."

Luke 2:10..Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to ALL PEOPLE."

1 John 4:14 We have seen, and do testify, that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior(Yahoshua) of the WORLD."

1 John 2:2.he (Yahoshua) "is" the sacrifice for our sins, and NOT for ours only but ALSO for the WHOLE WORLD

John 12:47And if ANY man hear my words, and BELIEVE NOT, I judge him NOT: for I came NOT TO JUDGE the world, but to SAVE the WORLD

1 Tim. 4:9-11 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, WHO is the SAVIOR of ALL MEN, especially of those who believe.

Acts 3:20 That times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ [the anointed one]appointed for YOU, Jesus[Yahoshua .. Gods salvation], whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring of ALL the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.

Luke 2:10 And the angel said to them, “Fear not, for behold, I bring you GOOD NEWS of GREAT JOY that WILL BE for ALL the people.

2 Cor. 5:14 Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for ALL, and therefore ALL died."

John 6:33 The Bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and GIVES LIFE to the WORLD."

The scriptures are so clear as to "who" and "what" Yahoshua (God IS salvation) is and did yet for 2,000 years religion has believed the opposite.However the scriptures will prove nothing to the blind or make them see (they were never meant to)Revelation comes only from God.

reply to post by tetra50

Interesting thread, Randy Tetra50

It is interesting. And gives people a chance to check themselves. Never hurts to put your
feelings in perspective by writing them down.

yeah, very true. However, I sensed in your OP a certain judgement about those turning people away from God, or are we talking religion, bc in my book, they aren't the same. Also, some lose faith bc of what has happened to them in their lives,. despite their goodness and willingness to serve the Lord. But that, right there, raises an interesting question, for it is said that this world belongs to Satan, not God......

Originally posted by randyvs
...Hi everybody
...I thought it would be a good topic to discuss dissuasion from the Lord.
No doubt there are folks who are sternly against Christianity. They all to
obviously love to dissuade people from their belief in Christ. I guess one
might call it a hobby of theirs. Although I have no proof, it is my belief they
conspire individually first, but often come together and form groups, dedicated
solely to this purpose.

Are you one of them ? And have you ever been able to achieve the goal ?
Ever turn someone from their faith ? How about any faith ? Why limit things ?
If so how did you do it ? And how did it make you feel ? Or maybe you've
lost your faith, do to someone convincing you, it was just silly to believe.
Have you ever dissuaded or been someone dissuaded from their faith ?
There you go. Have at it.
...

Thanks randyvs
Being someone who was "dissuaded" from "belief in Christ", I don't fall in line with most others (that I've read so far)...as, I had been involved all my life (*), was labeled "a minister", and was, in fact, in the process of examining all of what I had been taught (as the fundamental or founding principles, precepts, doctrines & tenets) of Christ... And ...after a couple of years of questioning, study, probing and genuine "soul searching"...was dissuaded by what I found to be "inconsistencies" in "the story".
At first (for a number of months), only my children and spouse were "let in" on this mammoth change.
Later, I began to write prose and treatises on said inconsistencies...seeking to engage others in conversation.
I even appealed (repeatedly) to those "of faith" that were "in the way" to show me where I was missing it (reasonably). No responses...except...dead silence. Meaning - Not One Response from all those die-hard, devoted, solid-as-a-rock, "Love Thy Neighbor As Thyself" folk...who...I would have thought were ruled by "love".
Instead - aside from one scathing piece of mail, accusing me of having no spine, I got the silent treatment...to this day.
The one thing I know...having been dissuaded from a lifetime belief system -- At first, you feel "free"... The world is brand new...with EVERYTHING yet to be discovered. After a while, however, as each new possibility seemed to prove just as flimsy (apparently) as what was discarded, I grew disenchanted...and disheartened...and convinced of no "special purpose" (unlike The Jerk, who found his).
And then - I realized that I would prefer that people continue believing in something I found baseless...because I preferred that they not lose something I did - Hope.
So - aside from an occasional engagement in discourse among the host of anonymous contributors, here - I do not pursue "dissuading" Christians of their belief.
Thanks for the opportunity to assist you in your quest for understanding (of people like me ---- Are Any Like Me?).

reply to post by WanDash


If we all have a special purpose as you put it ? And it has nothing to do with genitalia ?
It could only be us, each one of us individually, being just who we are.
Certainly no one can do the job of being you.

reply to post by randyvs
Oh how I have missed Stuart! He's hilarious!
I miss Mrs. Swan too.....He looka likea man!!!

Originally posted by randyvs
...If we all have a special purpose...
It could only be us, each one of us individually, being just who we are.
Certainly no one can do the job of being you.
...

Well - thanks.
Yeah - most people wouldn't want to be anyone-else, though. They'd just like to have what others have.
I'm sure I can speak for EVERYONE when saying - No-one-else would want the job of being me...or you...
I even came to the conclusion that - No-one would really want the job, privilege, honor, pay or responsibility of being "God" either...
Look at how many complaints are logged against "the job He's doing" every day!
Kinda wonder if "He" hasn't retired to the closet, covered "His" ears, and started asking if "He" has any vacation time coming...

reply to post by WanDash


I like to say it like this.

Being me is a dirty job but someone has to do it .

reply to post by tetra50

judgement

Ewe, nasty word. Authority much, of which I have none and dare not cast.
Can we just maybe go with opinion Tetra.please ? Let's try to withhold judgment.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by tetra50

 

judgement

Ewe, nasty word. Authority much, of which I have none and dare not cast.
Can we just maybe go with opinion Tetra.please ? Let's try to withhold judgment.

edit on 14-5-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Authority much? I was hardly asserting any such thing, Randy. No, I have no authority whatsoever, and no one knows that better than me. Thanks for the uplifting "judgement" of me....

reply to post by masqua

I have been dissuaded from the Nazarene as he was then and still is represented by both Paul and the much later effects of the Nicene Councils.

Sad for you, because Paul only reiterates what is spoken in the Torah and Tenach (old testament). Reading the old testament scriptures for Yeshua is as important as the gospels because he is there all the way back to Genesis. Old testament scriptures are a confirmation, thats why Yeshua had to fulfill all those prophecies.

For instance, when Paul quoted:

Hebrews 8:7-12

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

He got it from here:

Jeremiah 31:31-34

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[a] says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

So i am sorry you and your crowd have an axe to grind against Paul, but he was given as Apostle to the gentiles, a pharisee to teach the gentiles Torah, who were not raised from the cradle knowing it.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by tetra50

 

judgement

Ewe, nasty word. Authority much, of which I have none and dare not cast.
Can we just maybe go with opinion Tetra.please ? Let's try to withhold judgment.

edit on 14-5-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Randy, there is a context for every word, and I think you screwed me with your interpretation of my context.....
But, no harm done. After all, it's just some crazy internet site, right? And I will interpret your words the same: ewe...judegment.....you have shown plenty of it in every single thread you have created.

reply to post by tetra50


I'm sorry Sweets, you have me all wrong. I was merely asking you if we could use the word opinion instead of judgment. BECAUSE ...judgment is a word of authority of which I have none. But if I would have meant it the way you thought ? Damn right you should be mad at me. But on my life that is not what I meant.
I see now I was vague in what I said, so it's my bad and I do apologize for the misunderstanding.

Forgive me ?

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by tetra50

 

I'm sorry Sweets, you have me all wrong. I was merely asking you if we could use the word opinion instead of judgment. BECAUSE ...judgment is a word of authority of which I have none. But if I would have meant it the way you thought ? Damn right you should be mad at me. But on my life that is not what I meant.
I see now I was vague in what I said, so it's my bad and I do apologize for the misunderstanding.

Forgive me ?

edit on 15-5-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

I am all about forgiveness , Randy. Nor harm, no foul. I value you ,more than you will ever know nor appreciate.
I hold my life in the hands of the lord as well, I'm just never sure it is the same Lord .....for you see, this world is not that Lord's....it has long been said this is Satan's world. My name is Lucy, meaning light, and others may interpret that as Lucifer....
It is a twisted thing, what is happenng now... but what I can say about it with a little bit of authority is I judge no one, ever. That is not who or what I am. This is a place, as far as I can see, for testing......and I sincerely hope no one here goes through the pain I live through daily, for I do care, ever so much, for every one of us...for we could be healed instead of p unished, if the one I mentioned afore did not need some of us to torture.
You are not my enemy, I hope. I hope you do not view me that way. I have served my purpose, I think, as all of us have that purpose, here. And I wish you only the best, and freedom f rom pain and everlasting redemtption, shoud He choose to visit us soon.
tetra50

reply to post by tetra50


As far as I know Tetra, there is no sin in a name.
And the only enemies I could ever have must make
that choice. I wish I could say I have none but I do
unwillingly. I've simply made a choice to believe and
endure to the end. And then see what happens, what
questions get answered. And what questions I felt
I found the answer for and was right. Not to glorify
Randy, but to glorify him who answered questions
others had thru myself.

I try not to judge anyone yet remain imperfect
thru strong opinion.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by tetra50

 

As far as I know Tetra, there is no sin in a name.
And the only enemies I could ever have must make
that choice. I wish I could say I have none but I do
unwillingly. I've simply made a choice to believe and
endure to the end. And then see what happens, what
questions get answered. And what questions I felt
I found the answer for and was right. Not to glorify
Randy, but to glorify him who answered questions
others had thru myself.

I try not to judge anyone yet remain imperfect
thru strong opinion.

I have written a reply to you three times, to have it erased. Know that I have true faith in you, to carry on and know the truth: for it is hidden. and it is hidden to destroy what those of us inhabit this place are. So I place my faith in you. Judgement is not mine, ever. I serve here, as anyone else does. I wish you the best, and safety and free from harm, whatever that may mean....
But know this: the place you think you are in, and what you put your faith in, may not be what you think it is...I do not challenge your faith, for I have found it inspiring, but I would never wish to see someone of such faith fall, or fail for where we are, not knowing that.
Whatever you think of me, I am your friend, and would protect you to the end, with my life, if necessary.
Take care, be welll and think good thoughts, always,, for whatever I reply to you, judgement is never mine, and I never intended it to be so. I want onlythe very best for you and yours.
sincerely,
Tetra50

reply to post by tetra50


Thank you Tetra.
And may Sabers of light keep your path.