Dissuasion from the Lord

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posted on May, 10 2013 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 





The only way I have ever been able to reply, is by making it personal to me and thinking it thru.


But, you do sound like someone who will admit it when you hear the absurd being spoken as though it is truth.

No, I don't know how life got started. No, I don't know if there is a purpose to this life. No, I don't know if there is life after death. I am not threatened by what I don't know. But, I know that all of mankind is threatened by those claiming that they do know, and by those that take religious texts and use them to oppress and brainwash billions of naive people.

Be it the most intellectual theologian, or the most educated atheist, and neither has ANY clue as to whether a god exists, a heaven exists, or demons exist.




posted on May, 10 2013 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 





But, you do sound like someone who will admit it when you hear the absurd being spoken as though it is truth.


I couldn't be more certain, that a look back at my previous
threads would show consistently you are correct.
Give or take a few words here and there this would be
an accurate quote.

" I'm convinced, that if a person of one hundred
percent neutrality to the topic, ever existed ?
He couldn't help but arrive at one conclusion.
That there was not one among the entire divided
herd that wasn't completely insane beyond help."

When you think about it, both views are either equally fantastic to believe or disbelieve
Or they are equally absurd to believe or disbelieve.

We are all truly insane !



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


I assume you realize that some people suffer such trauma in their lives, it overturns their faith. Faith, true faith, I think can be the first and foremost struggle with one's relationship with God, or whom you call Christ. It is the paradox and p oint of faith.

sometimes getting it back, going through some kind of healing, may bring a realization and manifestation of a different manifested faith, perhaps, for instance, reach the conclusion that if God truly gave us free will, to screw up as we will and then ask His forgiveness, then there were certain "checks and balances" built into the process. And one of those caveats or trade offs with that free will business was He let go of his complete control over what happens here--this, in fact, may be where the idea of choice comes in, and that the devil, after all, is purported to own this world,, after all.

Interesting thread, Randy
Tetra50



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


I was raised in a Christian home, went to Christian school and lost my faith early on. The school I went to was rife with abuse, and though we were beaten, terrorized and worse - no one believed us. This was in the 1970's in Southern California.

Later my sister died slowly in the hospital of Leukemia and the priest assigned to the childrens ward was a bully of the first order. He cajoled her to repent, told her she was dying and threatened hell (and worse) if she didn't comply.

I lost my faith utterly by the time I was 15 years old, and it is only now -- some 30 years later -- that I have regained any semblance of it. Do this day I will not step foot in a church or spend a moments time alone with a member of the clergy. I will probably never have or experience "religion" again.

How can I? When your tormentors are gods representatives on earth, and they use god to reinforce your silence, it is easy to lose faith. Still -- I would never work to undermine anyone else's belief or faith. Why bother? Their path is their own, and I lack the wisdom to tell anyone how and where to walk between this life and whatever lies beyond the wub. It's outside of my jurisdiction.

You should know though that many lost their faith the hard way, and it is almost impossible to regain a measure of it in this life once it is stolen by those who claim religious authority and power.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 07:36 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 
Am I too late to join the party? Been kind of tied up lately, but wanted to get a word in....as most women do!

At times I have fallen away from religion- never due to another's dissuasion but due to my own questioning nature. That being said while religion has fallen by the wayside many times in my life the spirit of Christ has never left my heart. I had an extremely odd upbringing (in the religious sense as well as in other areas). Father was Atheist, mother was Pagan, one set of grandparents devout Catholic, one grandmother Southern Baptist and best friend's family Pentacostal- I was subjected to ALL on a regular basis! I won't bore you with all of the details, but I ended up a lapsed Southern Baptist with Catholic tendencies after many years of Paganism- but I at all times held the love of Christ in my heart and held his teachings dearly. For many years I was even a Sunday school teacher and Bible Camp teacher because I believe in the importance of teaching children what Christ wanted them to know- unconditional love, acceptance and forgiveness for ALL. No matter what anyone says these teachings hold fast and never waiver!



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 08:05 PM
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reply to post by littled16
 


You know though that really not what it all says. It says some were born for destruction, some fall off the path which is strait, not everyone is accepted. Just saying, not trying to start anything here.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
"I believe in a true reality where we can not be fooled and illusion is
impossible."


Has anyone noticed this 10 Megaton oxymoron of a statement?



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by littled16
 


You know though that really not what it all says. It says some were born for destruction, some fall off the path which is strait, not everyone is accepted. Just saying, not trying to start anything here.


When asked what the greatest commandment was Christ said there were two: to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul and strength and to love thy neighbor as thyself. If you obey his teachings you must love and forgive all people. Christ said to turn the other cheek when someone strikes you and he hung out and talked to tax collectors and prostitutes- this is the love, acceptance and forgiveness I speak of....to love people even if you don't understand or agree with their ways; to hate the sin but love the sinner. I think those are among the most important points made during his teachings- those, and to not judge others for none of us are without sin.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by littled16
 


Yea He said all that but when he went to eat, as an invited guest, with the Pharisees and lawyers, He dressed them down hard. Even accused them of plotting to kill Him. Called them children of satan. He also told the mob that followed Him around that they only followed He so they could eat. We see at some point the holding hands and the like came to an end and He got down right edgy with folks.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by Metallicus
reply to post by randyvs
 


I believe in God, but not religion. God and I don't need a middle man.


Funny, that's exactly what Jesus Christ is supposed to be. Your bridge to God and heaven.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


I was baptized as a catholic at age 4, from that moment I was turned away from religion, the wine tasted terrible, the bread was stale and i never stopped crying during the whole process


To me, and for a long time now "god" is the force that gives and supports life, in reality that is earth. The word LORD in it's routes means "the person that controls food", and came into fruition thanks to agriculture. Creating gods and the connection to them in a place unreachable by men/women.

That's what turned me away from dogmatic beliefs, we no longer take into account that it's not a deity that feeds and shelters us, or a man/women with a tittle that connects us to the spiritual world, but the very thing we are destroying slowly, the true connection to our spirits and that of the universe that is right in front of us, the so called "wild", the land that supply's, heals and shelters us.

For me, the creation of agriculture and religion go hand in hand, both ignoring the fundamental engines in the cycle of life. I am not dissing any religion, but it's just one option people have become accustomed to and there is many others, in order to satisfy the spiritual side of humanity. Nature and working with it's cycle can and does satisfy that hunger better then any Church or scripture, for me at least.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 10:34 PM
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Please forgive the following long windedness .I have been following this thread from the start and keep writing responses and don't post then someone brings up another issue so I'm finally posting.On that note I am not trying to convince anyone by what I am going to say and know for a fact that most will not want to believe it.Every worthwhile road of experience has many turns that make it harder to navigate however they are all necessary.There are many things I didn't believe before that I do now and looking back the seed of belief was planted long ago.That is the dichotomy of growing... something must die(unless a seed die).There isn't anything mystical about the truth it Is what it Is.

Everyone must experience for themselves the Truth however Truth cannot be truth if it is "my" truth.It has to be THE Truth and NOthing but the Truth not just what "I" believe.On that note Truth can only be known ...we can't be "dissuaded" of because "True" belief in Truth ( God) can only be revealed 100% from the source....God.Any dissuasion by man or God can only mean it was a belief in a false God which is what ALL religion (worship) is.

Now comes the impossible hurdle for most and the root cause of humankind's dilemma of life.The Truth isn't something that is revealed then believed by "our" free will because..mankind does not have free will(free of causation).This misconception/deception is the basis of all religion.None seeks the Truth (God).. because....God is the seeker and finder...and he never reveals himself through religion(the worship of words and doctrines)Only God can "reveal" himself just as he revealed who Yahoshua(Jesus)was to Peter.THAT is the foundation "stone" and the keys to the Kingdom of God to bind and loose...revelation.

This "world" realm (translated from the Greek aeon meaning age) is mired in delusion and illusion..the valley of the shadow of death....hades.(the realm of inperception). Religion is what "the many are called" worship.... not God.Yahoshua wasn't teaching man how to live by "following" him like a rule book...that is the letter of the law that kills...the spirit is life.The religious carnal mind wants to worship religion.....worship words(babel...babylon..the confusion of words)...the doctrines of men.The point is religion is ALL futile vain idolatry. Only God can reveal himself to a man.He surely doesn't do that through fear(hell and other false doctrines of mens religion).

God can only reveal himself when mans perspective of reality is aligned to Truth(which of course only God can align by revelation).The aligning is diametrically opposed to what mankind wants to believe..they believe they have free will to "choose" as they please so they are the masters of their own destiny and reality which is patently false and fatal to knowing the Truth.Starting from a false premise of "free will" colors all beliefs and makes the "worshiper" blind to the truth.

For example the Christian doctrine that man "chooses" God(Jesus) to be saved and thus chooses hell when they reject Christian doctrines .That is not the Truth and the scriptures that that doctrine of men was extrapolated from say just the opposite.Yahoshua clearly stated you have not chose me I chose you...and NONE can come to the Father unless he draws(in Greek draw means drags) them.It is impossible for imperfect(the meaning of sinful) man to chose to be saved by their free will when free will doesn't exist.

The bottom line is mankind is to easily persuaded of lies(from others and themselves through religion..all is religion) not dissuaded of Truth.Yahoshua clearly said something many do not and can't understand.IF you are a DISCIPLE of MINE (He chooses) you WILL know the Truth and THEN the Truth will set you free...the key is the choosing(revealing) and the Truth...which only comes from revelation from the Father.It is not a sign of spiritual superiority it is a choice Gods makes completely independent of us or our actions.We are not saved by a 10 second prayer or do we know the truth by studying the scriptures or performing religious acts there is only one way to be saved and know the Truth...and when it is known NONE can dissuade you.That's why it's the Truth.

The problem is "the many are called" think they know the Truth but they don't.They have gone(been led) down the wide path that leads to destruction yet think OTHERS(heathens..other religious beliefs) have.They "believe" they are the only "saved ones".Which couldn't be further from the Truth...ALL are "being" saved..... salvation is a process not an event.THAT is the GOOD NEWS!!There are not many paths of 'religion" to Gods salvation (the meaning of Yahoshua) there is only one Truth and only God can lead anyone down it and that is exactly what he is or will do for EVERYONE.....NONE will be lost.This is Gods creation(everything) not anyone or anything else's (contrary to religious beliefs) God is 100% in control of everything.

cont..



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 10:35 PM
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Yes it is a mystery that is slowly "being"unvieled.None stands any higher than anyone else.The higher will serve the lower everyone according to their order that God choses.NO one will be boasting about their position and lording it over anyone else as is in this age(world realm of death) of religion.The Son of God (Yahoshua) proved how that works however we don't experience that through religion but through Gods salvation ...the spirit of LIFE....Again contrary to popular religious belief ALL things are being worked out according to GODS purpose and will.God knows what he is doing.The plan is working perfectly regardless of the billions of chicken littles that believe otherwise.Nothing can thwart Gods plan ...especially mans will.No one can dissuade anyone of The Truth..that is not the problem.It is the lies the many are being persuaded of through religion however....It's all part of the process of salvation.Religion is an insidious fatal disease that can only be cured by an inoculation...religion.If you don't have it anymore the road is straightening out.

God is faithful he is taking EVERYONE down the paths they need to walk to the Truth.Yes very little of it seems to make sense..but that's the way it is in the valley of the shadow of death...hades... the realm of inperception....let them that have ears...hear.

Thanks to everyone that had patience reading this



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 11:49 PM
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I have never been dissuaded, but many times have I been discouraged. I feel discouraged by people seeking logical proofs to something that cannot be proven logically that is. The discouragement comes from the fact that I dont hold onto a brick wall mentality about my belief in Jesus, and I embrace and challenge myself with the many supposed 'proofs' that disprove God. With embracing these challenges, I find myself up against highly intelligent and scientific people, the likes I on my own could never compare. Speaking on a personal level, my belief in Jesus, and spending eternity in Heaven with Him is something no concept or proof or smart persons opinion will ever replace. I feel there is nothing but a depressing emptiness living a life without God, I would rather choose being viewed as an idiot but still hold onto my beliefs, then be considered inline with modern thinking, and goto bed knowing I have nothingness to look forward to, again my opinion.

So I find myself embracing a new atheist idea or anti God sentiment, challenging myself, and eventually getting knocked flat on my butt, feeling doubtful and questioning myself, then finally just giving it all over to God and then having an answer to said new idea. No it is never the answer anybody looks for, nor is it anything that logically or scientifically lays out a response, but more so finding were still in the same boat. [Also doubt does not equal dissuasion, doubt can actually be a healthy thing].

My case is faith, and that is my purpose in ATS, to somehow find how said new anti God idea or proof, no matter how seemingly logical and appropriate, requires just as much faith, as does a faith in God. So that is my purpose here, trying to get across to non believers that I am 1.) not your traditional Christian, and 2.) that even though alot of us may seem pretty dumb, the few of us who are not, have a reason to believe what we believe.

In fact to be honest, I feel I have actually grown more as a Christian through my time here in ATS, since there are so many good conversations between atheists and believers, and for the most part we can get along really well, and I feel I have had some new ideas exposed to me that help me understand where others are coming from. I would say that is the purpose of a good forum is it not? I just know I am not comfortable sitting back with my belief in Jesus as stagnant, I want to challenge it, I want to grab hold of atheistic ideals and mentality and see which is right, and which is wrong, or if there even is a right or a wrong, and eventually just come back to where it is all a matter of faith. Truth is when I came to this forum years ago [I have been trolling for a while before becoming a member.] But before I came here, I thought by the time I was at where I am now, that I would surely have given up a belief in God, but its the contrary, I find being outside of my comfort zone makes me stronger. I feel like a warrior of sorts, not against the non believer, but against the believer mostly, because when the typical 'Christian' comes in and slams everything down and dodges answering the tough questions, I want to answer them, I want to get my hands dirty and talk, I want to answer the questions no matter how stupid it makes me look. Great topic OP, got me ranting! : )



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by Logarock


Good observation, but what your seeing here is a double edged sword, and that is Jesus/God sees a persons heart. It means if your the greatest most wonderful person out there, God will still see you heart, be it truly good or someone who is in it for themselves. It is a double edged sword because if you are a 'good' person but in your heart is evil, God knows. Likewise, if you are a 'bad' person but are good in your heart, God knows. Which is why he was with many sinners because many of them wanted God in their lives, but the religious leaders deemed them too sinful for God. It is true that Jesus did condemn many of the very people He befriended, and this is because He knew their hearts, and also because He had to make it clear that He is accepting, but that they are still sinners and He has freedom from that available to them. Truth is, if Jesus never condemned the people who had no desire for Him in their hearts, your post would have been more along the lines of "Why did Jesus accept them, but do no more than that?"

It doesn't mean that as Christians we are to accept people and THEN condemn them, but it was for said purpose, and also for the reader's knowledge. It would be like if a parent accepted a troublesome child, but then never was a parent to them from that point on. But as Christians we are definitely supposed to accept all people. As Littled16 said, it is our commandment to love everyone, it doesn't say condemn, the condemnation part is the Lord's work to show, just as is the working in the person's life, we as Christians are there to accept and to love, and have questions when asked, and yes you can bring up the fact that people are sinful without judging the individual on a personal level.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 02:09 PM
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I lost my faith utterly by the time I was 15 years old, and it is only now -- some 30 years later -- that I have regained any semblance of it. Do this day I will not step foot in a church or spend a moments time alone with a member of the clergy. I will probably never have or experience "religion" again.
reply to post by 0zzymand0s
 



I just had to respond to your reply.

Ozzy I don't blame that fifteen year old kid for one second for losing faith. And I don't even believe God would blame him either. But if Gods light burns inside of you. It's messed up if you let disgusting evil people ( not
a judgment just an opinion ) extinguish that light forever. Remember there are people who've had it worse then you. I myself believe there is no reason for religion. But I would never, ever deny our Father in Heaven my spirit.

reply to post by buddhasystem
 


"I believe in a true reality where we can not be fooled and illusion is
impossible."



Has anyone noticed this 10 Megaton oxymoron of a statement?


You know , that just came out because I was trying to describe the after life as a more true reality.
I almost scrapped it and started over, but when I reread it I decided I liked it and left it.
So it is different.
edit on 11-5-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)
edit on 11-5-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by Logarock
 





We see at some point the holding hands and the like came to an end and He got down right edgy with folks.


When I think of how it must have been for him. And if edgy is all we can say that was noticeable ?
To know what was coming and to have everyone around him not even understand why he was there
in the first place. I know I would completely lose it because he was emotionally on his own. No one
could comfort him as his destiny drew near.




posted on May, 11 2013 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by littled16
 


You know though that really not what it all says. It says some were born for destruction, some fall off the path which is strait, not everyone is accepted. Just saying, not trying to start anything here.


said EVERY EVIL MURDERER and CHILD RAPIST to have ever lived...GENOCIDAL MANIAC, etc.,

THIS, is the Entitlement EXCUSE of ever time to justify any evil they do to others, always who have zero power, to Justify their

Rapes, murders, thieving, soul destruction, abuse.

Elitism, at it's worst, NARCISSISM in its full Entirity.

And the biggest COP OUT to not take any action to help one who needs it, the excuse for Slavery, Mass genocide and every Other DEMONIC Manifestation there is,

Determinism...Supremacy, Entitlement and typical from the NOBLE Class who GOT that way from Murdering and Terrorism. Any who would SPEND eternity with these types, have to be Demons,

Animals don't even act this way, nothing in Nature is That Arrogant.

It is the Motto of DEATH, Destroyer.

Absolutley no Life and Definately no LOVE in that Demonic doctrine.



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by Rex282
 


Not sure I agree with all of what you wrote, but you can be sure I read every word. And may I say you have some very different perceptions. Excellent post.
edit on 11-5-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2013 @ 08:35 PM
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Is it wrong to know that Jesus was not the only deity, the tales and folk lore similar to his story have existed for thousands of years, Hercules being one of them. Even the First Nations has a similar tale, except in their beliefs we never left the garden of Eden.

Talking about Jesus as a person is odd to me, and reading people speaking of him in a way that claims his existence is even more. The Bible is a Law/Death book once you take out all the folk lore out of it, even in terms of history towards the life of Jesus was literally an imagined character, who's story was written by a man that didn't know anything about him, except that he made miracles happen, died, and then resurrected, everything else was written on top of those "ideas" which was completely made up using previous and ancient symbolic writing about similar personas.

Yes there are some morals in the story, very few and in terms who learned anything from them, well nobody, because we crucify people that stand against the establishment.

But to take the tale as a literal event in history goes against everything nature shows us, even the rudimentary mechanics are frowned upon, the ones that in reality keep us all together and living.
edit on 11-5-2013 by XaniMatriX because: (no reason given)





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