Dissuasion from the Lord

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posted on May, 9 2013 @ 12:03 PM
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Mods I believe it is vital to this particular topic that
members post with sincerity and the discussion flows
with rythm and comfortablility.


Hi everybody
Yup it's me again.

But you should keep reading,
as this time round, I post with a
small twist in the hopes of adding
a spark and a bit of flare for your reading
pleasure.
Most of you already know my feelings for
for Christ and my belief in the light of eternal mind.
That is Thee personification of someone more superior
than humans of whom resides in a dimension, of true reality
and responsible for all creation we see before us. Rather than
this dimension of limited physicality, being susceptible to illusion



"I believe in a true reality where we can not be fooled and illusion is
impossible."

So much for intros.

I thought it would be a good topic to discuss dissuasion from the Lord.
No doubt there are folks who are sternly against Christianity. They all to
obviously love to dissuade people from their belief in Christ. I guess one
might call it a hobby of theirs. Although I have no proof, it is my belief they
conspire individually first, but often come together and form groups, dedicated
solely to this purpose.

Are you one of them ? And have you ever been able to achieve the goal ?
Ever turn someone from their faith ? How about any faith ? Why limit things ?
If so how did you do it ? And how did it make you feel ? Or maybe you've
lost your faith, do to someone convincing you, it was just silly to believe.
Have you ever dissuaded or been someone dissuaded from their faith ?
There you go. Have at it.




posted on May, 9 2013 @ 12:25 PM
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I have been dissuaded from the Nazarene as he was then and still is represented by both Paul and the much later effects of the Nicene Councils. So little remains of what the Nazarene actually said in his ministries that we are possibly left only with the Sermon on the Mount, which is truly sad. Had the original followers not been hunted down and killed or forced to abandon their homelands, one wonders what may have transpired instead of the foundational Roman Churches established in the 4th century. Since then, spin-off sects have multiplied exponentially to such a degree that it seems like a briar patch. The Nicene Creed was created solely to give power to the church as a forceful bastion against Arianism and had zero to do with the Nazarene prophet.

In other words, the ideas of others had zero influence on my decision. I remain a believer in deity and that's about it.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


I believe in God, but not religion. God and I don't need a middle man.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


It seems people attempt to persuade others of their own beliefs in an attempt to justify them to themselves. We see it in every manifestation of faith—what amounts to nothing more than the dogmatic expression of one idea against another.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 01:24 PM
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From my point of view. What you describe as god can find you anywhere on this planet when the time is right and religions is not needed. I can even think preconceived notions on how it is, can be in the way for the real thing.

Humans of faith say I have to have their exact view to get it but they are totally wrong.
. But then most people cannot see the same message in Jesus as in Buddha and I do not understand that at all because when I read them both it is the same message with just different word.

I hated the Christians view of god, because I did not get the hidden message that Jesus gave and believed in Paul representing Jesus. Once I realised he was to me, a wolf in sheep:s clothing then Jesus made sense and I could think fondly of his message.

Is it not funny that god drops information in different religions and when take some part here and there they fit into an increadable story that makes more sense than the parts ever did. And of course we have the idea off chakra in hinduism. Funny how it is close enought to the real deal to be useful to be meditating with god (spending time relaxing with god).

Thank you for being.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by Metallicus
reply to post by randyvs
 


I believe in God, but not religion. God and I don't need a middle man.


So right from my point of view too



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
reply to post by randyvs
 


It seems people attempt to persuade others of their own beliefs in an attempt to justify them to themselves. We see it in every manifestation of faith—what amounts to nothing more than the dogmatic expression of one idea against another.


Yes. We have to wonder what a given religion would become if it wasn't reinforced socially, my guess is that it would just disappear. People like to think that their beliefs come from themselves, that they have made a choice etc., but they have just been following a trend, a social trend, imitating the people around them, and when they want to persuade other people of the truthfulness of their faith, they are truly only trying to reinforce their own faith.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


Funny you would use STYX,...


A song.. or a cry for help about the loss of faith, and exactly why so.

I have turned people from their faith and attempt to do so EVERY day.
Anyone willing to see truth would laugh until they cried about how they had faith in religion and not God.
Do as I say, not as I do, it's ok for me, I'm above you.

Metallicus said it pretty dern good in my opinion,

I believe in God, but not religion. God and I don't need a middle man.


I believe religion is a tool made by kings for kings use, this does not sound like any god I would worship.
Religion, keeping people blinded, murdered, and enslaved.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by gosseyn
 



Yes. We have to wonder what a given religion would become if it wasn't reinforced socially, my guess is that it would just disappear. People like to think that their beliefs come from themselves, that they have made a choice etc., but they have just been following a trend, a social trend, imitating the people around them, and when they want to persuade other people of the truthfulness of their faith, they are truly only trying to reinforce their own faith.


Agreed. Religion says more about the culture than of God.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 01:51 PM
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As His 'elect', it is hard for us to comprehend how so many others just don't get it. To us, once we have realization of Truth, it seems like a person would have to willfully orchestrate great efforts in every direction to remain ignorant. No matter how bizarre or far-reaching their personal "truth" may be, the only foolishness they are capable of perceiving is the Truth they are working so desperately to shut out of their life.

God, seeing and knowing their heart, understanding His own creation in a way more thorough than we can ever comprehend, allows their choice to find their own way and gives them over to their own willful self-destruction. Even worse, this path of destruction is paved by entities who, like ravenous wolves, are all too eager, willing and capable of helping them along.

My spirit grieves over the thought of what a sickeningly tragic feeling God must endure when He is forced to keep His Word and His Law with His own creation, and concede to their individual will to turn away from Him. The Bible is rife with metaphors of seed and fruit. One of the many understandings of 'seed' is DNA, and its fruit is the total recombinant possible outcomes of human creation. The seed was corrupted, therefore, the population of men is a mixed bag of fruit set against each other in enmity. The wheat grows alongside the tares. Thankfully, we exist in a finite dimension, therefore, we can be comforted knowing that there will be a culmination of this physical phase of our consciousness. A testimony to this is the fact that we think and exist within linear time, and are incapable of truly comprehending eternal concepts in anything other than theory.

ATS is one of the most disheartening, discouraging environments in which the disparate seed of mankind can interact with each other. I think only prisons or social case workers would surpass, perhaps. However, much can be learned here if one is willing and has the spiritual fortitude to withstand the constant onslaught against their lamp of Truth. Although there is much refinement in this particular battle, the risk of succumbing to the darkness is equally as great, as great victory requires great battle.

Go with God my friend, and remember that time spent in the trenches on the battlefield must absolutely be compensated for by time spent alone with Him. Even Jesus, while in the flesh and in the world had to practice such discipline, as He stated, "only the Father is good" and "the Father is greater than I". Yes, Jesus is God, but God, in His eternal essence is infinitely greater than God clothed in decaying and sin-inclined flesh.

Once you choose rebirth in the Spirit, it is absolutely necessary to refresh with the Living Water of His Word and His presence during private prayer.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by masqua
 


Well said, I agree almost entirely as I do abstain from religion. I just can't help but feel the importance of Christ.
That's all I know while I keep in mind that the Father is capable even thru men of conveying his message to our minds. So I seek that message simply by opening a book and having faith.
Great post.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 02:14 PM
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Well this has to be said!



I have been dissuaded from the "god" of my upbringing. It's a matter of refinement of the definition of what "god" is. I think education does change people's conception of the Biblical stories, for example was Jesus really born of a virgin? Did it really only take 6 days to create our earth? Not all Christians believe this any more.


edit on 9-5-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by WashMoreFeet
 


You absolutely nailed it.

Everyone

I am astonished at your replys.

reply to post by windword
 



I have been dissuaded from the "god" of my upbringing. It's a matter of refinement of the definition of what "god" is. I think education does change people's conception of the Biblical stories, for example was Jesus really born of a virgin? Did it really only take 6 days to create our earth? Not all Christians believe this any more.


Well a virgin birth is possible as we see in this day and age. And if a day is as 1000 yrs to God it should be more than possible for him. But I get your meaning Win, I do and appreciate your post.
edit on 9-5-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 





Well a virgin birth is possible as we see in this day and age.


Yes, but not without sperm. At any rate


Christianity and following the "Lord" is different for different people. When I speak out against Christianity on these boards, it's to deflect the indoctrination that sooooo messed me up as a kid. I'm really trying to help.




edit on 9-5-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


Because mankind is flawed, overwhelming 'zeal' for a particular thing is many times carried out to the negative extreme. All men (and women--all of mankind) have this tendency, regardless of the subject. However, one of the most repercussive subjects is religion. Ironically, most of these overbearing efforts are based on the subconcious desire of human beings to gather together, to educate, to concern themselves with, to have fellowship and brotherhood with each other.
Loving your brother means considering their feelings over your own.
Because we are flawed and ignorant, many have suffered due to our over-zealous intent to save each other.

Edited to add: Along with the bumbles mentioned above, you must also include pride, self-righteousness, ignorance, and all the other unsavory aspects of human beings which have the inclination to manifest themselves when interacting with each other.
edit on 5/9/2013 by WashMoreFeet because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 09:39 PM
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If we're contemplating the God of Moses, then it is almost impossible not to be confronted with the word 'Idolatry', isn't it?

What is Idolatry anyways?


Definition of IDOLATRY

1
: the worship of a physical object as a god
2
: immoderate attachment or devotion to something

www.merriam-webster.com...


Worship. That's a pretty strong word equal to belief and faith, imho. So why is it that our western society is so full of idols?



Add to that all the stars from a century of Hollywood; Monroe, Chaplin and a thousand others. The same can be said of the music industry; bands with huge followings like the Beatles and AC/DC. We all worship their talents and good looks, even giving some almost invincible qualities, like Kieth Richards of the rolling Stones.

We throw money at them constantly, even long after they have passed away, which brings me to another idol; MONEY. In God We Trust is written on the USD. Presidents are displayed on them and The Benjamin's are to die for. More hardcore worshiping going on.

What is money, really? It's a piece of paper we believe in and worship above pretty much everything else because we trust everything can be bought if only we have enough money. I'd bet 2008 showed many people what money truly is... a hope, a dream, a fallacious trust that can fail at any time. If money isn't the about the same as the Golden Calf that Moses had ground into dust, then I guess I have no clue whatsoever.

We're all guilty of idolatry and, in particular, myself as an artist because I paint images and dream of having them become valuable. I'm building my own golden calf every day. Right? Guilty as charged.

So, when faced with the God of the Old Testament, I'm kinda lacking, you know what I mean? At least the Nazarene was a carpenter and fashioned something useful. If he carved a curly-cue in a chair, then was that his own human failing? Did he try to do better work so he could charge a higher price and buy better wood?

I'm confused. Even more screwed up over Original Sin, but that's another post, maybe.





edit on 9/5/13 by masqua because: grammar



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by masqua
 





I'm confused. Even more screwed up over Original Sin, but that's another post, maybe.


There is one defining purpose, in all the threads I write
to the religious forums. I strive to know those who answer
a little better, with what they write concerning these, most
important matters. As I feel I know you just that much more
now. No one can deny, that if you want to know someone,
besides the facade they project to the world. More deeply.
This one of the forbidden topics, you must sooner or later
guide a conversation unto. Some might say that sounds
like cherry picking the people I'm willing to befriend. Not
the case at all, because I never disallow any one, from being
my friend. Not without a damn good reason.

I digress, but it was fun.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


I was dissuaded in my belief in Christ via Scriptural interpretations of people. I'll explain, but first let me momentarily embrace the prose of the KJV, which I favour:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

but by me.. So, I participated in a group discussion, because this weighed heavily upon me. Demographics of the group probably don't matter, however there was a pastor, a visiting minister of another sect of Christianity, his wife, two couples of the congregation, and two or three other individuals.

I asked........... "but what of those who were born and ....... well, indoctrinated under a completely different religion, say, for example one which doesn't embrace Jesus Christ, but another Godhead. Suppose they are never exposed to Christianity........ are they damned?

nervous murmuring. The general consensus was that everyone has an opportunity to discover Christ, and therefore the verse leaves no room for interpretation.

"but........ what of those who were born apart from civilization. They must be God's children as well, right? What if their dogma was apart from and these people weren't exposed to Christianity?"

Now, to the group's credit, I was asked my opinion. I've been called a 'universalist'. The term wouldn't have sounded bad at all to me, had it not been spat like an invective.

My view has been that God spoke to his different tribes in their own language, and in doing so, He wears many names. Nope, that didn't fly. ONLY through Jesus Christ can we reach the Father. No other name will do.

I've since had counsel with many men and women of faith about this issue, and the response seems to be universal (pun intended). Thus, I suppose, children who die before being old enough to understand are thought to be lost. People born into faiths that exclude all others are lost. Tribal people who never discover Christianity are lost, all because of the interpretation of Scripture by PEOPLE.

I realize that it is a living document, and a good book. I have two, right here on my table, next to the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, The Organic Gardener, The Love Poems of John Keats, Shotguns, by Elmer Keith, and Fearful Symmetry - a physics book. I recognize that The Holy Bible is to be taken as a whole, and thus a broader knowledge emerges, apart from the muses of people.

I further don't......... no..... CAN'T........ no...... WON'T believe that God intended for Leviticus to be used persecute some of His children........... but that's another thread.

So, I remain a happy universalist. I don't see it as a departure from Christianity, but more a incorporation of more flexible ideas and ideals.

A church of two, in our own little Eden.

Hey, you asked.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


Though it may seem like it sometimes, my intent is not to pull people from their beliefs. What I look for is entertaining conversation with people that aren't afraid to say, "I see what you're saying, and you're right, this part of my belief doesn't make sense."

I would only be too glad to admit it when a religious person offers something that I don't know, yet doesn't sound wholly impossible or absurd.

But that's not what I get. The brainwashing of these individuals is so complete that they dodge my questions every way possible, or flat out refuse to even look at what I'm proposing. They are threatened by me, so they panic and spew sheer and utter nonsense.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by argentus
 





Hey, you asked


And I don't see how I could regret it.

reply to post by jiggerj
 



But that's not what I get. The brainwashing of these individuals is so complete that they dodge my questions every way possible, or flat out refuse to even look at what I'm proposing. They are threatened by me, so they panic and spew sheer and utter nonsense.


You are challenging at times Jigger but I've never felt threatened by you.
Never the less I know exactly what you mean. I've seen it and most of us have.
There seems to be a great number that don't think their belief all the way thru.
The only way I have ever been able to reply, is by making it personal to me
and thinking it thru. I've never claimed to have the right answer. But I do feel
it is necessary to have an answer..
There are a lot of common points that get eluded to and used contrary to what
was intended. I've always tried to make sense of the less understood. I was
never one to say, oh hell this is trash and get all bent and give up on it.
Instead I would let it rest and in time life always some how would point out
the answer, in time.
edit on 10-5-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)





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