Mysterious copper plates baffle archaeologists

Originally posted by tjack
I'm going to guess it's an oil lamp top, and the hole is where the wick comes out. Any small bowl made of pretty much any material could be used to hold the oil and the mystery object is kind of a "universal" wick holder.

That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the rectangular hole in the middle. Looks like my oil lamp at home.

It appears to be that these plates were simply ornaments, a string passed through the center, making a necklace that probably some high priest wore.

At any rate, it seems these things were supposed to be arranged on a rope for some reason.

Or an oil lamp like other posters said, I agree, this is probably the tops and the oil went in a clay chamber

Dumbbells for weightlifting?

Originally posted by FoosM
Dumbbells for weightlifting?

No back then people stayed in shape by doing manual labor so they could have food. They would look at us today, "running" down the street to loose weight as some kind of kind of crazy person

Originally posted by punkinworks10
reply to post by elevenaugust

 

Fascinating stuff,

Maybe they were "candle" holders it a lamp of some sort used in a burial ritual.

Thinking of them mounted on wooden pole's and the candle in the depression with them burnished to a fine almost golden polish, I have to agree and they would look quite nice too.

They look like ancient hubcaps for fancy carts.

reply to post by mikegrouchy


Maybe they were interchangeable, like you said, and each different plate was for the sun shadows in a different location of their known world.

"Plate A is pretty accurate for most of the Kingdom, but if you travel east past the great statue of Ogg, switch to plate B. And if you go to the land of the giants, use plate C right as soon as you cross the rope bridge over the amazon river..."
And so on and so forth? Or would a device that records the suns shadows only work for latitude? Or wait...because of seasons,.that means...aw heck I have no idea what that is! It was fun trying though!

Originally posted by EllaMarina
They look like ancient hubcaps for fancy carts.

Maybe for a chariot? Or some ceremonial thing they would roll out when someone was buried? Maybe it carried the body? They would roll the person around on a type of gurney, on a specific sacred path, or just down a straight path going from his home where he was probably born, straight out to his grave. And all the townspeople and friends and family would line up on each side and bless the body of their loved one with prayers and place flowers and other meaningful objects around their deceased loved one.

The gurney would have been wooden, save a few ornamental pieces like these "hubcaps" so the rest of it rotted away long ago.

reply to post by elevenaugust


Twenty centimeters is about 8 inches for those who don't do SI. So, ornaments are unlikely, especially give the central suspension. Shield bosses is one possibility and I think the cymbal suggestion is a very good one too, or possibly an ancestral castanet-like "instrument." BTW, I am an archaeologist.

they are from ancient hospitals, only the electric wires are missing. they were fastened at the holes. die on the table and these plates will be pushed on your chest followed by an "stand clear"!

reply to post by JonDee


India temple traditions are import from Egypt and Babylon.

A lot of people migrated from middle-east to India in ancient times (specially mass migrations from Assyria). India did not have any temples before 500 BCE.

The immigrants brought with them their traditions. When they came here, they adopted Indian mythological stories (basically their gods changed) but continued with their traditions of temple building.

The indigenous system of worship is called 'agnihotra' which was done in the open or under a thatched roof - basically aromatic and food offerings into fire with chanting of hymns.

Yes it looks like cymbals.

Being an artist myself i just make stuff that looks cool for the hell of it. Why does every Archeologist that finds something from the old days think it had some kind of purpose? When it could of been just some crazy artist made it for the sake of art.

reply to post by Optix


Possible. But metal was very expensive in antiquity. Knowledge of metallurgy is very old but the methods known were suitable only for small scale production.

So metal objects were produced for practical purposes. Artistry was more common on wood, stone etc. which were far more plentiful.

Originally posted by GargIndia
reply to post by JonDee

 

India temple traditions are import from Egypt and Babylon.

A lot of people migrated from middle-east to India in ancient times (specially mass migrations from Assyria). India did not have any temples before 500 BCE.

The immigrants brought with them their traditions. When they came here, they adopted Indian mythological stories (basically their gods changed) but continued with their traditions of temple building.

Can you provide verifiable documents, data, references to substantiate the above statements?

reply to post by coredrill


The stories of migrations are present in folk-lores and memory of people even if much of it is not documented.

I have talked to a lot of people of different castes to dig their origins. Doing it for last 20 years.

It needs to be done scientifically. This will require extensive use of DNA analysis and a lot of resources.

The Vedic tradition has four classes but no castes. Vedic people did not use a surname, only the given name. Sometimes a title was used like 'Shashtri' or 'Trivedi'. However title was NOT hereditary.

However there are many stand-alone castes in India that do not fit into the Vedic system. Great examples are 'Agarwal' and 'Jat'. There are many more.

There is a paucity of documentation as family trees were maintained only for the royal families. Family trees are maintained by Pundits in some cases today, but these go to only 200-300 years back.

I have been doing this research wth my own resources. Government is afraid to touch the 'caste'. The politics is all about taking benefit of the castes.

In addition, I have some powers (clairvoyance) that you may or may not understand.

reply to post by GargIndia


Yeah that makes sense. thanks.

Originally posted by GargIndia
reply to post by JonDee

 

India temple traditions are import from Egypt and Babylon.

A lot of people migrated from middle-east to India in ancient times (specially mass migrations from Assyria). India did not have any temples before 500 BCE.

The immigrants brought with them their traditions. When they came here, they adopted Indian mythological stories (basically their gods changed) but continued with their traditions of temple building.

The indigenous system of worship is called 'agnihotra' which was done in the open or under a thatched roof - basically aromatic and food offerings into fire with chanting of hymns.

Yes it looks like cymbals.

Originally posted by GargIndia
reply to post by coredrill

 

The stories of migrations are present in folk-lores and memory of people even if much of it is not documented.

I have talked to a lot of people of different castes to dig their origins. Doing it for last 20 years.

It needs to be done scientifically. This will require extensive use of DNA analysis and a lot of resources.

The Vedic tradition has four classes but no castes. Vedic people did not use a surname, only the given name. Sometimes a title was used like 'Shashtri' or 'Trivedi'. However title was NOT hereditary.

However there are many stand-alone castes in India that do not fit into the Vedic system. Great examples are 'Agarwal' and 'Jat'. There are many more.

There is a paucity of documentation as family trees were maintained only for the royal families. Family trees are maintained by Pundits in some cases today, but these go to only 200-300 years back.

I have been doing this research wth my own resources. Government is afraid to touch the 'caste'. The politics is all about taking benefit of the castes.

In addition, I have some powers (clairvoyance) that you may or may not understand.

No Garg. Not anecdotal evidences.
What you state is purely based on on Anecdotal evidences. Not from a Historical or archaeological or anthropological aspect at all.

What evidence does exist to link Babylon with India?
Are there archeological evidences particular to the Assyrians in India? If so, please provide them.

So, you are trying to bring in a whole new tale that the whole idea of fire worship is purely from the Middle East, from Babylon/Assyria and the Aryan worship of Agni has got nothing to do with it. Maybe next, you will be claiming that the Vedas are copied from Babylonian or Assyrian religious texts which do not “exist” now.

There is a difference between Folk lore and oral tradition. Folk Lore forms a small part of Oral tradition.
Religious philosophy, rituals, chants, mythology etc are passed down orally generations. Folklore arises out of the Mythology and History of bygone eras.

I think you have not got the gist of how archaeology, linguistics, anthropology, biology, zoology, name it-any science work hand in hand to arrive at a complete picture of a culture of a civilization.

Family Trees are just a modern construct. They don’t amount to anything when viewed on a Historical scale.

Getting back to the topic:

1. Are there recorded evidences, in Ancient Egyptian records (Engraved hieroglyphs or Cursive hieroglyphs or hieratic) that links Egypt to India? OR in records in Ancient India, in engravings or metal plaques etc that indicate any such link between Ancient India and Ancient Egypt that proves that the whole idea of worship in temples, or temple building was transmitted from Egypt to India? Or similarly, from Assyria to India? (forget about the fact the IVC did have trade links with Middle east. With Mesopotamia etc, lets keep IVC out of it)
2. Vedic tradition did have only classes. Agreed.
But the titles were hereditary; a boy born to a Trivedi is a Trivedi. It became a surname since the boy will be taught the 3 Vedas and be learned in it.
God knows, how many of the modern day Trivedis, or Dvidedis or Chaturvedis actually know all their Vedas.

reply to post by coredrill


I have already written that this topic is way beyond my own resources.

The government of India must do anthropological study of India's population. However nothing much has been done so far.

I have been collecting evidence, and will perhaps write a book at some point in time.

reply to post by coredrill


The expert of Veda tell me that titles are not hereditary.

So son of Trivedi is not a Trivedi.

It is today due to the dubious caste system. The caste system was not present in Vedic time.