Judgment: What is it, and is it Anything that We Need to be Concerned About?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

1. On the contrary, Christians also stand to be judged. Jesus said that not everybody who goes up to him saying "Lord, Lord" would enter the kingdom of Heaven.

I meant to explain Romans 8:1, but haven't gotten around to it. I think it is the basis for there being a judgment, or rather the concept that Paul is discussing where that verse is included. He was saying that the righteous act of one, meaning Jesus, is not like the other, meaning the fall of man at Eden supposedly, where the bad thing affected everyone, so as all people die, but what you have to conclude as Paul's meaning, is that not everyone automatically enjoys the benefits available based on Jesus' act of salvation.

A part of them would do that and say they did miracles in Jesus' name... and yet they are rejected. These people can ONLY be Christians

I think that was who Jesus was referring to in that sermon about "in that day", which would be a sort of judgment day that people back then expected, which was the getting rid of the bad people who were causing the world to suffer. That was the belief, and Jesus seems, rather than dispute its veracity, to go with it in order to illustrate a point.

2. The sheep and goat judgement would be on the basis of how they treated their fellow humans. I guess belief in God is also a prerequisite.

It might not be that, at least not directly, but more of this apocalyptic expectation that was a general belief at the time, that the nations which had caused Israel to suffer (which goes back to the Assyrian Empire that originally destroyed the northern kingdom) would be punished. He is claiming that when that day comes, he will be the one doing the judging, so in practical terms, he is making himself, if not God, God's designated agent on earth, similar to what Moses would have been looked at as back then.

reply to post by deadeyedick
I just noticed a mistake in my post while looking at your quote of it. I meant to write "dire consequences", but instead ended up with "die". I was too tired yesterday for starting a thread but wanted to do it anyway, while the topic was still relevant to the earlier conversation on the derailed thread.

The only way it will hurt them is if in the end when they are faced with true love they do not embrace it. Most followers will turn away from satan when they see the other realm. It is a big surprise when you view things from the other side because they are simple. The more you want your soul to shine the more positive life you want to live. Religion and worship are tools to keep us on the right path and they are communication methods with the helpers on the other side. Many people have found the positive side of life without religion and they will make the right choice no problem. When people knowingly worship satan it gives power to the negative side of life and interferes with the growth process of everyone.

I've never met Satan personally so I don't know how I would worship him or serve him.
There are some bad people out there who have serious psychological problems who are likely never going to get better in this life. Maybe if they had another sort of life where they are free of things that are really physical and part of the world as it is, then they could make better choices. Then if they still don't then it is really something about who they are rather than just their circumstances of birth.

reply to post by Siberbat

Isreal was judged for being pridefull and hard hearted just as the U.S. is today. It was a spirit of defiance which condemed then as it will condem the U.S. We will be judged as a nation. This is not just a smack on the hands, it is a curse. A curse in which our leaders kept repeating on the record in the spirit of defiance. The issue is relying on God. Our country used to rely on God, however, we have turned from God as a nation. It's like saying, "We don't need God, we will rebuild with stronger stones, plant better stronger trees, and we don't need God to do it." That is the message. Pride, foolishness, and rebellion. Have you not noticed that our economy, agriculture, and the quality of politicians are not like they were a generation or two ago?

I have noticed that. We have a real problem with people who are basically just so many criminal gangsters running things who are getting as much as they can grab while they have the opportunity, where too many people are letting it happen, while they just sit there waiting for the Rapture or something.

The nation's blessings are all but gone. If you checked the link you would see the striking simularities.

To many people who should be doing something about it are sitting there thinking, "Let it burn. It's all going to, anyway, right, isn't that what the preachers are saying?"

If your inqury is of individual judgement, we still will all be judged. Those who are saved in Christ will not be condemed. As said before though, rain (judgement) falls on the just and unjust. Maybe I misunderstood you.

Either way. I wanted to find out what people thought about judgment from the point of view of if what we do, our actions, are even relevant, or do we just throw up our hands and say, "There really isn't anything I can do about it, so it doesn't matter how I act."
What got me started on this, in the other thread, was the topic of Reformation theology being all basically different degrees of the idea of predestination, which in practical terms, makes a judgment irrelevant and maybe redundant, in that we are already pre-judged.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by logical7

 

. . . "Did We
not give you lives long enough, so
that whosoever would receive admonition could receive it And the
warner came to you. So taste you . . .

A bit harsh, it seems to me.
So really, it is believing, then the person will not do things to be punished for.
There is where the choice comes, then good or bad works will be the natural outgrowth from that choice, or that is what I am assuming from reading your post.

yes,
believe=>do good, avoid bad=>if done bad, show remorse/repent and try to be better.
God is all aware and nobody would be wronged in the least on Judgement Day.
There is no vip passes for anyone just because they believe.

Surah29
1. Alif-Lam-Mim. [These letters are one of the
miracles of the Qur'an, and none
but Allah (Alone) knows their
meanings.]
2. Do people think that they will be left alone because they say:
"We believe," and will not be
tested.
3. And We indeed tested those who were before them. And
Allah will certainly make (it)
known (the truth of) those who
are true, and will certainly make
(it) known (the falsehood of)
those who are liars, (although Allah knows all that before
putting them to test).
4. Or those who do evil deeds think that they can outstrip Us
(i.e. escape Our Punishment)?
Evil is that which they judge! 5. Whoever hopes for the Meeting with Allah, then Allah's
Term is surely coming. and He is
the All-Hearer, the All-Knower. 6. And whosoever strives, he strives only for himself. Verily,
Allah is free of all wants from the
'Alamin (mankind, jinns, and all
that exists). 7. Those who believe [in the Oneness of Allah (Monotheism)
and in Messenger Muhammad , and do not apostate because of the harm they receive
from the polytheists], and do
righteous good deeds, surely,
We shall remit from them their
evil deeds and shall reward them
according to the best of that which they used to do. 8. And We have enjoined on man to be good and dutiful to
his parents, but if they strive to
make you join with Me (in
worship) anything (as a partner)
of which you have no
knowledge, then obey them not. Unto Me is your return, and I
shall tell you what you used to
do. 9. And for those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah and other
items of Faith) and do righteous
good deeds, surely, We shall
make them enter in (the
enterance of) the righteous (i.e.
in Paradise). 10. Of mankind are some who say: "We believe in Allah," but if
they are made to suffer for the
sake of Allah, they consider the
trial of mankind as Allah's
punishment, and if victory comes
from your Lord, (the hypocrites) will say: "Verily! We were with
you (helping you)." Is not Allah
Best Aware of what is in the
breast of the 'Alamin (mankind
and jinns). 11. Verily, Allah knows those who believe, and verily, He
knows the hypocrites [i.e. Allah
will test the people with good
and hard days to discriminate
the good from the wicked
(although Allah knows all that before putting them to test)]. 12. And those who disbelieve say to those who believe:
"Follow our way and we will
verily bear your sins," never will
they bear anything of their sins.
Surely, they are liars. 13. And verily, they shall bear their own loads, and other loads
besides their own, and verily,
they shall be questioned on the
Day of Resurrection about that
which they used to fabricate.

reply to post by MamaJ

Christian or not.... we ALL have to learn how to be "better" for all walks of life/systems in this vast Universe/Multiverse.

This is the whole purpose of Life when coming here, or the other places.

reply to post by logical7

2. Do people think that they will be left alone because they say:
"We believe," and will not be
tested.

That's what I was getting at, and here it is actually being spelled out.
The writer may have had Christians to look at as examples of people with this attitude.
I think this is similar to what Jesus was saying in the story of the one who will say, "Lord, Lord!".
Except this is in a format of a lesson rather than so much a story.

Originally posted by jmdewey60

1. So who will be at this judgment?

2. What are the possible results of this judgment?

3. What would be the basis for this judgment, meaning what specifically will be the thing or things that will be introduced as evidence to be examined and an opinion formed on?

4. Are we actually going to be held personally responsible for the things we will be judged on?


There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

1. Judgment is today and we are all judged today. We are all at the judgment.

2. Our emotions are the result of our judgment. When we love we receive love, when we argue we receive anger. We have been judged righteously according to our actions.

3. Everything that you do is judged. The only righteous choice is love, therefore love is the only judgment that we should seek.

4. We are personally responsible for controlling our emotions and pursuing love.

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in love"

To choose to love, is to be in love. To be in love is to avoid condemnation. If you want to receive love you must pursue love. Anything less than love is condemnation.

Sometimes things have more than one meaning. No one can be sure what happens after the physical body passes away, but we can be certain if we pursue love we will find love. And if we find love we can be certain that we have been judged according to our actions.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by logical7

 

2. Do people think that they will be left alone because they say:
"We believe," and will not be
tested.

That's what I was getting at, and here it is actually being spelled out.
The writer may have had Christians to look at as examples of people with this attitude.
I think this is similar to what Jesus was saying in the story of the one who will say, "Lord, Lord!".
Except this is in a format of a lesson rather than so much a story.

yes, the belief should become visible in action and shape the life of the believer towards better in prosperity and adversity.

If i believe eating healthy food is good and i preach it and then go and have junk food, i am a hypocrite, the belief is just a show and i have failed to internalize it.
God will judge what's in the heart and only God knows the heart.

"And as for those who believe not in
the Hereafter there hearts refuse to
know, for they are proud." -the Holy Quran (16:22)

"And whosoever believeth in God, He
guideth his heart. And God is knower
of all
things."-the Holy Quran (64:11)

"And obey not him whose heart we
have made heedless of Our
Remembrance, who followeth his own
lust."
-the Holy Quran (18:28)

"The day when wealth and sons avail
not (any man). Save him who bringeth
unto God a whole heart
"
-the Holy Quran(26: 88-89)

"And the Garden is brought nign for
those who kept from evil, no longer
distant. (And it is said): that is that
which ye were promised, (it is) for
every pertinent and heedful one, who
feareth the Beneficent in secret and cometh with a contrite heart." -the Holy Quran (50: 21-33)

reply to post by sacgamer25

. . . if we pursue love we will find love. And if we find love we can be certain that we have been judged according to our actions.

So we can know now how we will be judged because we are getting what our intentions are looking for.
If we were looking for bad things we would be getting bad things and shouldn't expect anything else in whatever is our afterlife.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

. . . if we pursue love we will find love. And if we find love we can be certain that we have been judged according to our actions.

So we can know now how we will be judged because we are getting what our intentions are looking for.
If we were looking for bad things we would be getting bad things and shouldn't expect anything else in whatever is our afterlife.

Exactly, but most are blind to this. So they continue to work against love and thus are filled with the emotions that are against love. Anger, Depression, Ext.

If you sit around waiting for Jesus to come hoping he will save you. Then you will likely die in waiting, never really receiving the promise until your physical death. It is vital that one believes that being "born again", is a spiritual experience that happens for believers during our physical existence. The pursuit of love above all else is the path that leads to the transformation.

If you get up and do what Jesus said, then you will receive your reward today. There is no reason to wait for salvation. Eternal life is the promise to all who do what he said. This promise can be known to the believer.

God has a way to fill you with a type of knowledge that was somehow previously unobtainable, and through this knowledge you also receive a promise. It is so profound it is impossible to deny. The earthly "Kingdome of Heaven", is a place that true disciples can worship in spirit and in mind. It is the emotion of pure joy that comes to the one who pursues love above all else.

It is important that we refer to scripture, mostly to the 4 gospels for us to understand the "what" we must do. Paul talks more about the "why" and the struggles towards the goal. He is very misunderstood by the church. It is good that you have already rejected much of what they say.

What "Heaven" awaits upon physical death I do not know. But I know that one can be resurrected spiritually by the power of the Holy Spirit. This is a transformation that can happen today for anyone who believes. Jesus says the burden is light. Sometimes it feels like a mountain but the reward for understanding love is always greater than the pain learned in the lesson.

This is something new that I have been trying to grasp myself. I think this might help you Dewey.

***************************************************************************************************

Love is the outcome for doing what is righteous, because love is the only righteous act.

Anxiety(fear, anger, ext) is the outcome for doing what is against love. What we must understand about anxiety is this. Anxiety is from the father; if something is causing us anxiety there must be a purpose.

"Anxiety: Find the purpose, fix the problem, and be filled with Joy" - Sacgamer

(Pray as much as you need) There is always a purpose for everything.