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Judgment: What is it, and is it Anything that We Need to be Concerned About?

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posted on May, 9 2013 @ 07:28 AM
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Judgment according to the Bible, and leaning towards the New Testament version, since that is where an afterlife is more officially accepted as a reality, is what I was referring to in the thread title.
The immediate reason for this thread is to continue a conversation that was off-topic and derailed another thread. This is a serious subject and deserving its own thread, I believe, so join in if you think so too and have any sort of opinion on it. Let me start with where the conversation left off, with my attempt at reformulating into questions what was being considered in that previous conversation.

1. So who will be at this judgment?

2. What are the possible results of this judgment?

3. What would be the basis for this judgment, meaning what specifically will be the thing or things that will be introduced as evidence to be examined and an opinion formed on?

4. Are we actually going to be held personally responsible for the things we will be judged on?

Someone who considers himself a Christian could believe that the Bible says that they are not susceptible to a judgment, having been given a special exemption from it.
Romans 8:1 is the most likely verse to be offered right away to support that theses,

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

where I suppose this leaves the person who is offering this verse as an argument, with the feeling that, even if they were to undergo a judgment process, the outcome would be predetermined, where even if they had condemnable things on their account, they would be automatically granted a reprieve. In this person's mind, they could see this verse to mean that question #1 would be answered by a 'not me', and question #2 with a 'even if I was, nothing bad could possibly be the result'.

I would take Romans 8:1 being interpreted in this way as being the result of its having been used as a proof-text to back up a theological scheme designed to made Christians believe in a workaround for the biblical claim of the reality of a judgment. An example of such a scheme would be Reformation theology predestination.
edit on 9-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 9 2013 @ 07:56 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60


Who will be at this judgement? From my POV and understanding there will be an intrusion of feelings at the time of passing into the afterlife. Everything good and bad I have done in my current life will be felt by "me". This is is the judgement of "self" as I peer into the subconscious of this (my) vessels/hosts mind.

The responsibility of action taken will be had by the true mind of which I inhabit. I will decide which form or way in which I will learn what I did not learn in this past life and will make arrangements for learning accordingly. The truer me is a light in which has lead the host from darkness to peace.The truer me KNOWS all sides of the coin and will be able to decipher which form of retribution will be best for this type of personality as I make my journey into the after life. There will be work to be done, Im sure.

Christian or not.... we ALL have to learn how to be "better" for all walks of life/systems in this vast Universe/Multiverse.

^^ My opinion,



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 08:10 AM
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It appears whether or not we want to acknowledge it, America is, or soon will be, under God's judgement.


The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycamores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars. (Isaiah 9:8-10 KJV)


Because of our hardened hearts, our pride, and turning away from God as a nation, we will face judgement just as Isreal faced God's judgement.

The harbingers explains what I'm talking about. (too long to quote, but a must see.)


That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. (Matthew 5:45 KJV)



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 08:18 AM
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The view that I've latched onto over the years is a casual one, so I'm not going to toss out scriptural citations.


1. So who will be at this judgment?

Me. God, in the persons of Father and Son.


2. What are the possible results of this judgment?

Near as I can figure, 100% chance of "guilty" -- none of us are perfect, we've all sinned against God, and as God is just, we are found guilty of that sin. Because our sin is a crime against an infinite being, we have incurred an infinite debt as a result, which can never be repaid by us.


3. What would be the basis for this judgment, meaning what specifically will be the thing or things that will be introduced as evidence to be examined and an opinion formed on?

My personal belief is that, given an opportunity to review the behaviours and impacts that make up our lives, we'll essentially convict ourselves.


4. Are we actually going to be held personally responsible for the things we will be judged on?

Of course. God is just.

However, for those who are in Christ, before we are justly condemned for our sin, he steps forward and, essentially, says "I've got this" and our infinite debt is paid. God is just, but is also merciful.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 

The truer me KNOWS all sides of the coin and will be able to decipher which form of retribution will be best for this type of personality as I make my journey into the after life.
OK, we have one vote for judgment as a self-examination.
But you do believe in some sort of being held responsible for the actions of the person attached to that life history, then?
It sounds like to me that you do. Even if "retribution" is the suffering of reviewing those past deeds more comfortably left forgotten.
edit on 9-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by Siberbat
 

. . . we will face judgement just as Israel faced God's judgement.

That is to me the main theme of the Old Testament, that Israel did suffer from being judged.
The reason for that judgment was the Law that apparently wasn't being properly followed.
Christians today do not have that same burden, Paul tells us in the New Testament, but there still is a standard for righteousness which is of God.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 08:35 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 

Me. God, in the persons of Father and Son.
So I'll take that as meaning that you at least accept the premise that there is a judgment.

Near as I can figure, 100% chance of "guilty" -- none of us are perfect, we've all sinned against God, . . .
What about Romans 8:1, doesn't that give you some kind of hope that you could make it through a judgment?
If what you say is true, then that verse is wrong, and your condemnation is a foregone conclusion.

My personal belief is that, given an opportunity to review the behaviours and impacts that make up our lives, we'll essentially convict ourselves.
So, in your mind, there is a pre-judgment judgment but is one conducted by yourself.

Of course. God is just.

However, for those who are in Christ, before we are justly condemned for our sin, he steps forward and, essentially, says "I've got this" and our infinite debt is paid. God is just, but is also merciful.
This does not seem "just", to me, to not hold anyone responsible for evil actions resulting in injury to other people.
According to this theory of yours, God does not seem, to me, either just or merciful, if He lets the guilty off free, and punishes in the most sever way, someone completely innocent.
edit on 9-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by adjensen
 

Me. God, in the persons of Father and Son.
So I'll take that as meaning that you at least accept the premise that there is a judgment.

Of course. If there is no judgement, how can there be salvation?



Near as I can figure, 100% chance of "guilty" -- none of us are perfect, we've all sinned against God, . . .
What about Romans 8:1, doesn't that give you some kind of hope that you could make it through a judgment?
If what you say is true, then that verse is wrong, and your condemnation is a foregone conclusion.

No, what I said is in complete agreement with that verse. You may not have read my post completely -- those who are in Christ are saved from condemnation through him.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
According to this theory of yours, God does not seem either just or merciful, if he lets the guilty off free,

They aren't let off "free", Christ has paid the debt for us.


and punishes in the most sever way, someone completely innocent.

Who do you think is completely innocent?

Justice is getting what you deserve.
Mercy is not getting what you deserve.
Grace is getting what you do not deserve.

Grace is at the core of salvation in Christ.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 

Of course. If there is no judgement, how can there be salvation?
Depends on the definition of salvation, I think.
Generally what the New Testament means by salvation is the creation of the church, with Christ as the head, and us as members, with interaction within that system between us and God and the Holy Spirit.
Probably what you mean is something that happens in some sort of afterlife, which is begun by some sort of judgment. I know this sounds very fuzzy, and intentionally so, since the purpose of this thread is to clarify these terms, since there seems to be some conflict based on different interpretations given to the various verses that have to do with judgment.

No, what I said is in complete agreement with that verse. You may not have read my post completely -- those who are in Christ are saved from condemnation through him.
What I am suggesting is that you think that you are in agreement with Romans 8:1 because you view it through the filter of the theory that it is used as a proof-text to support, rather than what Paul was really saying in that verse.
edit on 9-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 

They aren't let off "free", Christ has paid the debt for us.
That's a theory, that somehow a debt was created, and then paid for.
Paul describes a situation where sin was introduced and as a result, everyone dies, because everyone has been affected by that bad environment that we all were forced to exist in.
Jesus changed the nature of the environment that we have to exist in by introducing a system within it where we are not necessarily enslaved to the cycle of sin and death, which is as I suggested earlier, the church with Christ as the head and us as its members.

Who do you think is completely innocent?
Jesus.

Justice is getting what you deserve.
Mercy is not getting what you deserve.
Grace is getting what you do not deserve.
So are you suggesting that justice is circumvented?

Grace is at the core of salvation in Christ.
You may have a picture in your mind of what this means but the Bible has it as grace being the invitation to enter Christ, his church, and salvation being in that church in that it is created and protected by God, and so is "saved", or made secure.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 11:50 AM
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There is a realm where all spirits connected to us are seen as a white light and those that worship the adversary shine red in color. The new king will be able to view these lights from this realm enabling those contrite ones to be disconnected in a very short period of time. There are spirits standing by in the other realm to take the red ones down in the growth process. At the same time a huge number of believers will e taken up in the growth process to a "god like existence" and they will be here to raise everyone for the next thousand years. Then all those red ones that have came back through the growth process and still shine red will e permanently deleted from existence. The growth process can go down to animal forms all the way to a Jesus like state of being. This is what we all go through during our time here and many believers have decided to wait for things to pass in animal forms because of the current state of humanity.
edit on 9-5-2013 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
Judgment according to the Bible, and leaning towards the New Testament version, since that is where an afterlife is more officially accepted as a reality, is what I was referring to in the thread title.
The immediate reason for this thread is to continue a conversation that was off-topic and derailed another thread. This is a serious subject and deserving its own thread, I believe, so join in if you think so too and have any sort of opinion on it. Let me start with where the conversation left off, with my attempt at reformulating into questions what was being considered in that previous conversation.

1. So who will be at this judgment?

2. What are the possible results of this judgment?

3. What would be the basis for this judgment, meaning what specifically will be the thing or things that will be introduced as evidence to be examined and an opinion formed on?

4. Are we actually going to be held personally responsible for the things we will be judged on?

Someone who considers himself a Christian could believe that the Bible says that they are not susceptible to a judgment, having been given a special exemption from it.
Romans 8:1 is the most likely verse to be offered right away to support that theses,

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

where I suppose this leaves the person who is offering this verse as an argument, with the feeling that, even if they were to undergo a judgment process, the outcome would be predetermined, where even if they had condemnable things on their account, they would be automatically granted a reprieve. In this person's mind, they could see this verse to mean that question #1 would be answered by a 'not me', and question #2 with a 'even if I was, nothing bad could possibly be the result'.

I would take Romans 8:1 being interpreted in this way as being the result of its having been used as a proof-text to back up a theological scheme designed to made Christians believe in a workaround for the biblical claim of the reality of a judgment. An example of such a scheme would be Reformation theology predestination.
edit on 9-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Who will be at this judgement? everyone who has ever lived from civilizations gone and present.

What are the possible outcomes of a judgement? being left behind a dying planet and if you have taken the mark of the beast and if the mark is way to make you live longer as some will choose the spiritual mark that is the pineal gland or chip device that controls everything, just my take.

3) what ever your mind projects but that's if you don't except Christ but in scripture it is written their will be no records of wrongs if you except.

4) only if you don't except Christ, but if you believe in Christ and continue with your sins and you know the Gospels you will be Judged the hardest.

Just my thoughts.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


1. So who will be at this judgment?
Everyone.
"{They will say, "Alas for us! Who
has raised us from our resting-
place? This is what the All-Merciful
promised us. The Messengers were
telling the truth.} ( Ya-Sin 36: 52)"


2. What are the possible results of this
judgment?
Heaven, Hell for a time, Hell forever

{That Day people will emerge
segregated to see the results of
their actions. Whoever does an
atom's weight of good will see it.
Whoever does an atom's weight of
evil will see it.} (Az-Zalzalah 99: 6-8)
{...They will be paraded before your
Lord in ranks: "You have come to Us
just as We created you at first. Yes
indeed! Even though you claimed
that We would not fix a time with
you." The Book will be set in place and you will see the evildoers
fearful of what is in it. They will
say, "Alas for us! What is this Book
which does not pass over any
action, small or great, without
recording it?" They will find there everything they did and your Lord
will not wrong anyone at all.} (Al- Kahf 18: 48-49)


3. What would be the basis for this
judgment, meaning what specifically
will be the thing or things that will be
introduced as evidence to be
examined and an opinion formed on?
(And those who disbelieved will be
driven to Hell in groups, till, when they
reach it, the gates thereof will be
opened. And its keepers will say, "Did
not the Messengers come to you from
yourselves - reciting to you the verses of your Lord, and warning you of the
meeting of this Day of yours'' They will
say: "Yes,'' but the Word of torment
has been justified against the
disbelievers!) (39:71)

(Every time a group is cast therein, its
keeper will ask: "Did no warner come
to you'' They will say: "Yes, indeed a
warner did come to us, but we belied
him and said: `Allah never sent down
anything (of revelation); you are only in great error.''') (67:8-9)

(Therein they will cry: "Our Lord! Bring
us out, we shall do righteous good
deeds, not (the evil deeds) that we
used to do.'' (Allah will reply) "Did We
not give you lives long enough, so
that whosoever would receive admonition could receive it And the
warner came to you. So taste you (the
evil of your deeds). For the
wrongdoers there is no helper.'')

4. Are we actually going to be held
personally responsible for the things
we will be judged on?
YES
edit on 9-5-2013 by logical7 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by deadeyedick
 

. . . ones that have came back through the growth process and still shine red will e permanently deleted from existence.
So there are two judgments but not right now.
After the judgments are done, some of us won't ever be around anymore.
Sounds like die consequences and based on either believing, or worshiping the wrong person or thing.
Does it harm others to worship wrongly, or is that a metaphor for doing bad things against others?



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by WarriorOfLight96
 

. . . in scripture it is written their will be no records of wrongs if you except.

If you repent and turn away from those wrong actions that harm others.
That's what I was trying to get at here, which is if it seems normal in Christian belief to say that what you do affects the possible results of judgment.
I think that you are saying that they do, where you said, if you keep on doing those things despite knowing better.
I think we do know better, when we believe in Jesus and he sends us the Holy Spirit to give us a new conscience.
We can either act on those promptings, or we can harden our hearts against it, which makes them go away and we are left in a rather hopeless situation.
Now I am not trying to encourage people to give up hope and surrender to oblivion. I'm just saying, that may actually be preferable to something like hardening your heart against the Spirit while simultaneously deluding yourself into thinking that you are still going to be OK come judgment.
edit on 9-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 

. . . "Did We
not give you lives long enough, so
that whosoever would receive admonition could receive it And the
warner came to you. So taste you . . .

A bit harsh, it seems to me.
So really, it is believing, then the person will not do things to be punished for.
There is where the choice comes, then good or bad works will be the natural outgrowth from that choice, or that is what I am assuming from reading your post.
edit on 9-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.


1. On the contrary, Christians also stand to be judged. Jesus said that not everybody who goes up to him saying "Lord, Lord" would enter the kingdom of Heaven.
A part of them would do that and say they did miracles in Jesus' name... and yet they are rejected. These people can ONLY be Christians

2. The sheep and goat judgement would be on the basis of how they treated their fellow humans. I guess belief in God is also a prerequisite.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 01:28 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by deadeyedick
 

. . . ones that have came back through the growth process and still shine red will e permanently deleted from existence.
So there are two judgments but not right now.
After the judgments are done, some of us won't ever be around anymore.
Sounds like die consequences and based on either believing, or worshiping the wrong person or thing.
Does it harm others to worship wrongly, or is that a metaphor for doing bad things against others?

The only way it will hurt them is if in the end when they are faced with true love they do not embrace it. Most followers will turn away from satan when they see the other realm. It is a big surprise when you view things from the other side because they are simple. The more you want your soul to shine the more positive life you want to live. Religion and worship are tools to keep us on the right path and they are communication methods with the helpers on the other side. Many people have found the positive side of life without religion and they will make the right choice no problem. When people knowingly worship satan it gives power to the negative side of life and interferes with the growth process of everyone.



posted on May, 10 2013 @ 01:35 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Isreal was judged for being pridefull and hard hearted just as the U.S. is today. It was a spirit of defiance which condemed then as it will condem the U.S. We will be judged as a nation. This is not just a smack on the hands, it is a curse. A curse in which our leaders kept repeating on the record in the spirit of defiance. The issue is relying on God. Our country used to rely on God, however, we have turned from God as a nation. It's like saying, "We don't need God, we will rebuild with stronger stones, plant better stronger trees, and we don't need God to do it." That is the message. Pride, foolishness, and rebellion. Have you not noticed that our economy, agriculture, and the quality of politicians are not like they were a generation or two ago? The nation's blessings are all but gone. If you checked the link you would see the striking simularities.

If your inqury is of individual judgement, we still will all be judged. Those who are saved in Christ will not be condemed. As said before though, rain (judgement) falls on the just and unjust. Maybe I misunderstood you.





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