Contrail Observation Thread

This thread has been inspired by some recent exchanges I have had on other threads. In these threads the nature of chemtrails versus contrails has been discussed and some familiar claims were made about the nature of 'con versus chem'. Therefore I have decided to show and not just tell to see if some of the chemtrail believers who frequent this board are inspired to do their own similar research when they feel they are looking at a spraying operation.

I just spent a couple of lazy bank holiday afternoons sitting in my garden with my camera and ipad and observed what was going on above me. My location is Maltby, a smallish town roughly halfway between Sheffield and Doncaster. Please feel free to check the images and data I post here for yourself using FR 24’s playback function (at least for the next two weeks).

In this first post I would like to address a particular type of claim that we see. This is that regular commercial flights do not criss cross and leave tic tac toe grids in the sky. This is said to be a sure sign of chemtrailing and my own recent comment that regular scheduled flights do indeed leave such patterns was even called ‘bull’ by a member who was of the view that I was deliberately posting misinformation.

So here we begin, here is an image of an aircraft completing a tic tac toe in the sky above me which I had been observing over the previous few minutes.



This trail is being left by this aircraft, unidentified on FR 24, but visually by myself, as they all are, as a Delta Airlines Boeing 767-300. The exif data on the image records the time as 10:39 on the 7th May. The actual time on FR24 is 9:39 due to me not being arsed to change the clock on my camera when the clocks went forward for BST, please bear this in mind if you are looking on FR24 as well.

It has been documented on here before how some aircraft do not appear due to lacking ADS-B transponders and Delta is the one airline I personally have noticed often, but not always, doesn't show. Here is a zoom of the plane for confirmation.



OK, so that plane doesn’t appear on FR 24 so I can easily understand how that might raise suspicion despite my assurance that this is quite common for that airline, I totally get that. But at this point it’s the grid that is the main focus, so what of the other flights that made it?

Here is the third element of the grid being added six minutes earlier



The aircraft here is a Lufthansa A380 D-AIMB, heading from Frankfurt to Houston at 34,000ft and 567mph on its regular scheduled service. And here is the zoom for visual confirmation



Seven minutes before that the second element was laid as can be seen here



This aircraft is clearly identified as Air Canada Boeing 777-300, C-FIUV, from Frankfurt to Toronto at 33,000ft and 571mph, the zoom confirms the distinctive Air Canada sky blue scheme



And this whole thing began when I tracked the aircraft that turned out to be the first one to leave a trail in this grid, which was United Airlines Boeing 777-200 N77014, from Schiphol to Houston at 36,000ft and 548mph



And finally in this part, here is the zoom crop that confirms the model and operator is as shown.



So there it is, a tic tac toe grid in the sky over my house that “cannot” be the result of commercial jet routes, and yet it is. Or is it credible in any way to you that United, Lufthansa, Delta and Air Canada co-ordinated a top secret spraying operation in this way?
But his is only one grid, you may say, how does it disprove that other grids are chemtrails? Well, because it shows an example of it happening normally (and being so commonplace that I got one within minutes of deciding to do this!) Who is to say that all the other claimed chemtrail grids are not simply the same? Has anyone out there observed a chemtrail grid that doesn’t simply appear as the result of commercial flights? If so let us see the evidence.
The onus is now on a chemtrail believer to track a similar grid without regular commercial traffic involved, then there is a discussion to had about grids.
Whilst doing this several other planes were photographed and some of those brought into mind other claims that have been made on this subject. I will address those in a part two post appended to this one .

reply to post by waynos


Although I want to get deeper into this discussion.

Would you not agree that condensation is the process and the product is clouds?

If the planes are creating condensation that means there is water molecules in the air.

Yet we see no clouds?

Why is it that there is water molecules in the air with no cloud formation, yet enough water molecules to create condensation from a jet?

With this theory of commercial airliners creating condensation we can say that all planes now a days are cloud creators?

Since they are undergoing the process of condensation?

Also, how do we know that these planes are not just vessels being used? I don't mean to drag the conspiracy but you even said they didn't show up on radar.

Originally posted by JrDavis
reply to post by waynos

 

If the planes are creating condensation that means there is water molecules in the air.
Yet we see no clouds?

Why is it that there is water molecules in the air with no cloud formation, yet enough water molecules to create condensation from a jet?

Same process as this...


Beforehand, there is not enough water vapour, afterwards there is.

reply to post by alfa1


Right so why doesn't the breath linger?

Wouldn't it be that the breath creates a cloud?

If the conditions are right in the atmosphere for a plane to start the condensation process then there should be a product from that process.

You can't have condensation that lingers without clouds. The condensation is the process in which clouds are formed.

How do you have clear skies with enough water vapor to create lingering.... condensation?

Yet no clouds.

So you photographed ONE or two planes spraying normal streams?

You think that debunks the countless ones that show multiple planes(we're talking dozens at once), all flying overhead spraying thick streams?

You fail to completely miss the "chemtrailers" main points too, and instead think you debunk stances, that you made up.
Most admit that normal planes can create normal contrails. Showing a picture of one, doesn't debunk anything.

Also, they've taken to spraying at night this past year or so(probably from all the attention)....you'll rarely be able to see the jets that we are talking about during the day.

They are spraying something. I don't happen to think it's poison, so I don't like the term chemtrail. BUT they ARE spraying something.

Originally posted by Ghost375
So you photographed ONE or two planes spraying normal streams?

You think that debunks the countless ones that show multiple planes(we're talking dozens at once), all flying overhead spraying thick streams?

You fail to completely miss the "chemtrailers" main points too, and instead think you debunk stances, that you made up.
Most admit that normal planes can create normal contrails. Showing a picture of one, doesn't debunk anything.

Also, they've taken to spraying at night this past year or so(probably from all the attention)....you'll rarely be able to see the jets that we are talking about during the day.

They are spraying something. I don't happen to think it's poison, so I don't like the term chemtrail. BUT they ARE spraying something.

edit on 8-5-2013 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-5-2013 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

Funny you say at night because I was driving back from Manchester to Southern Maine and all the way from Manch to Maine there was fog that tasted like dirty water.

I started to get anxiety and feel light headed and dizzy (Heavy metal toxicity symptoms). Started to shake (Maybe nervousness) and felt like I was going to pass out.

One guy even pulled over and got out of his car. Wasn't fun.

Came home and took Chlorella. Still trying to detox that crap.

It was the nastiest fog I have ever seen. Really thick and lingered for at least 80 miles.

The weather channels had no coverage on the fog but my town.

All the rest said visibility was 2.0-7.0, yet didn't say there was fog?

I don't see them at night and some nights the skies are clear. I do see some streams on some nights but who knows.

reply to post by waynos


Lets put some spice on this thread. I took these photos with my phone this week. I"m in NJ. I have no explanation but must be one. Sorta "Reverse Contrails".

Part Two
Whilst photographing these aircraft a similar claim popped into my mind. This is not so much directly from ATS, but is a claim directly from a source that is frequently referenced by believers, You Tube!!
There are several you tube videos and clips where the uploader talks about ghost planes. Secret invisible government planes that are involved in spraying chemtrails, such as these, amongst others;

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...


To most people the claim is clearly nonsense, but some must believe it for they give credence to these claims. This thought occurred to me as I was observing the aircraft I have posted above approaching me. The effect is cause by the angle the plane is photographed from in relation to the sun and the atmospheric conditions, which on this day were quite hazy which is why the zoom crops are so fuzzy. If these guys were honest, they would photograph the plane after the angle changed, as I have above, but they don’t want that. They actually want to take advantage of an optical effect that any aviation photographer would be well familiar with as use it to dupe people into believing their fairy story.
Remember the Lufthansa A380 from the previous post? On approach it looked like this;



A clear candidate for a hoax invisible sprayer claim, but as you can see above, it was nothing of the sort.

A few minutes after the A380 had gone I detected the Approach of Lufthansa Boeing 747-400 D-ABVX from Frankfurt to JFK at 36,000ft and 552mph. On its initial approach, from the same direction, the conditions gave it the same ghostly appearance like thus;



Obviously, as it progressed the effect was reduced and by the time I captured it crossing another freshly left trail it was perfectly visible



Another sighting that excites interest is the odd looking trail with ‘fronds’ hanging down. This actually gets mentioned in a few different claims. That it is a sign of the chemicals descending from a chemtrail is but one of them. Another popular claim is that it is a sign of a PDW engine such as would power the mythical Aurora aircraft.


Anyone who has been here a while will instantly recognise this as just such a trail. The way this was left, however, was no super secret PDW powered hypersonic chemtrailer. It was a City Jet Avro RJ85, registration EI-RJE, travelling from Paris to Newcastle at 28,000ft and 449 mph, in Air France colours and the odd looking trail was how it looked 12 minutes after the plane had passed.
.

Another claim that is often made by some people is that the chemtrails are really low level, and not high at all. Well, clearly all the ones I have posted above were left at 28,000ft or higher. I also, and with some difficulty, observed lower flying planes as much as possible. Every single plane I saw that left ANY sort of trail was at the height I have just mentioned. For completeness here are some that didn’t;

Qatar Airways Airbus A330-200 A7-ACJ en route from Manchester to Doha at 21,700ft and 476mph



Thomson Boeing737-800, G-TAWR, Manchester to Sharm el Sheikh, 16,750ft, 463mph



Emirates Airbus A380-800 A6-EDG, Manchester to Dubai, 22,200ft, 524mph



The common denominator here (and the many others I haven’t posted) is that they are flying through lower air as they climb following take off in Manchester, where the air is warmer and the water content of the exhaust never freezes in the first place.
This also explains why it is that the commonly seen explanation that “I live near an airport and I rarely used to see trails but I do now!” is a minomer as you will NEVER see trails from any plane using that nearby Airport, only from the high altitude traffic passing overhead, see also the destinations for all the other pics I posted to see this is consistent.

There are several other images of planes leaving trails and others not, but the only ones I got that did not appear on FR 24 other than the plane in the first post were small private aircraft and a USAF KC-10 and C-17 that I spotted.

Originally posted by JrDavis
reply to post by waynos

 

Although I want to get deeper into this discussion.

Would you not agree that condensation is the process and the product is clouds?

Yes, absolutely. Cirrus Aviaticus is the term that has been coined as they are the same as Cirrus clouds, but caused by aircraft.

If the planes are creating condensation that means there is water molecules in the air.

Yes, thats right, and these are added to by the moisture produced by the combustion of jet fuel.

Yet we see no clouds?

Actually it was quite hazy, which is why the crops of, for example, the Air Canada 777 are so fuzzy, but even so this can still be true. There is always moisture in the air, but not always clouds. Its simply a matter of how much, and what nucleation molecules, if any, are present for it to condense around.

Why is it that there is water molecules in the air with no cloud formation, yet enough water molecules to create condensation from a jet?

There can be a relative Humidity with regard to water of 100% (RHW) and there not be any clouds. as well as adding locally to this moisture level, the jet can also put out aerosols, such as soot, which can kick start the process.

With this theory of commercial airliners creating condensation we can say that all planes now a days are cloud creators?

Since they are undergoing the process of condensation?

Well, yes. Or at least adding to it, as I said in a previous paragraph

Also, how do we know that these planes are not just vessels being used? I don't mean to drag the conspiracy but you even said they didn't show up on radar.

They do show up on radar, but several aircraft, especially with Delta, do not use ADS-B transponders, and this is why they do not show up on FR24, though usage is increasing and the vast majority of airliners have them in Europe.

These aircraft are vessels being used, on regular scheduled passenger services. Even if there is a doubt over the Delta plane, what of the other three that made that grid? all checkable passenger flights on regular schedules.

Uploaded on May 11, 2010

I was filming a HIGH Chemtrail spray day when I caught this Chemtrail Mega Sprayer laying down a massive chemtrail. Filmed during daylight hours using a Sony Hi8 with a 950nm IR filter and in Nightshot mode... Hence the Green color of the video.

Originally posted by JrDavis
reply to post by alfa1

 

Right so why doesn't the breath linger?

Wouldn't it be that the breath creates a cloud?

If the conditions are right in the atmosphere for a plane to start the condensation process then there should be a product from that process.

You can't have condensation that lingers without clouds. The condensation is the process in which clouds are formed.

How do you have clear skies with enough water vapor to create lingering.... condensation?

Yet no clouds.

In Alfa's picture the breath is condensing, then evaporating. This is very similar to the process that creates contrails, but not actually the same. In an aircraft contrail the vapour isnt condensing, its freezing. The resultant tiny ice crystals are what cirrus clouds at these altitudes also are. This happens all the time a plane flies through cold air, regardless of humidity because the water from the exhaust, plus the moisture in the unburned bypass air which does condense out when it is depressurised behind the engine, freezes. When RH is low, this trail disappears fairly quickly (a few minutes) as the ice sublimates. Where the RH is high there is literally nowhere for the moisture to go, so it hangs around in the sky until it can sublimate. When RHW is over 100% (RHI over 60%) this can trigger a chain reaction where the moisture in the air itself also begins to nucleate and freeze and this is what happens when a contrail spreads all over the sky. The plane triggered the process, but its still weather related.

Originally posted by Ghost375
So you photographed ONE or two planes spraying normal streams?

No, I have photographed hundreds, but it wouldn't be fair to the reader to post them all so I picked the most recognisably relevant.

You think that debunks the countless ones that show multiple planes(we're talking dozens at once), all flying overhead spraying thick streams?

No, it debunks the claim that such things DON'T happen with regular commercial flights. Do you think that seeing dozens of planes, without any explanation as to why they are up there beyond a guess, supports claims of chemtrails?

You fail to completely miss the "chemtrailers" main points too, and instead think you debunk stances, that you made up.
Most admit that normal planes can create normal contrails. Showing a picture of one, doesn't debunk anything.

Thank you for saying I failed to completely miss their points, though I wasn't trying to miss anything to be fair, simply recording my own observations in the hope they may be useful to others. As to me making the 'stances' up, are you honestly saying you have never read a post where chemtrailing is reported due to the grids that are in the sky or a post where a believer states they recognise a chemtrail because of the grids in the sky? I have seen many and I was taking part in one only a few days ago, hence this thread.

Also, they've taken to spraying at night this past year or so(probably from all the attention)....you'll rarely be able to see the jets that we are talking about during the day.

They are spraying something. I don't happen to think it's poison, so I don't like the term chemtrail. BUT they ARE spraying something.

OK, so have you any observations or evidence you would like to share on that point?

reply to post by Trueman


Yes, they do look like reverse contrails dont they. By coincidence I observed the same sort of thing while I was doing this little experiment. The one I watched was caused by a plane passing through a cloud during its climb as it went over my house.

The plane was a Ryanair Boeing 737 going from Manchester to Okecie in Poland, It was just a little over 17,500ft at the time and so was not producing any trail of its own so just left a 'negative' break in the cloud as it went though.

reply to post by Ghost375

.....stances that you made up.

Thread 1
thread 2
thread 3
thread 4

Pleanty of mentions here, and of course the hundreds more I could have used. So that was as clear an example of disinformation as one will ever see, wasnt it. "ghost 375"

Originally posted by Ghost375
Also, they've taken to spraying at night this past year or so(probably from all the attention)....you'll rarely be able to see the jets that we are talking about during the day.

Skystefs night time contrail pictures go back to 2007.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


That guys photos are amazing, I wish I knew how he gets the set up with the moon and multiple planes etc, I'm just luck to get 'something' lol

reply to post by waynos


don't forget these guys

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Postscript to OP

This morning I have repeated the observation, this time the Delta 767 DID appear on FR24 as DAL 15 from Frankfurt to Atlanta, trails are not persisting at all today and so the very same flighs as on the 7th did not create a grid.

I think that is worth bearing in mind for anyone who draws a distinction between spray days and non-spray days and relates such sightings to increased numbers of aircraft.

Further observations.

Here is a classic scenario from the "Look up" school of chemtrail theory.

Firstly, here is a plane that could be said to be 'obviously' spraying. The trail it leaves behind it thick and spreading;



Even more damning, it soon crosses paths with another sprayer leaving the tell tale X mark in the sky;



Moments after the previous photo was taken the upper trail had already vanished where they had crossed and a mere minute after that both trails were simply short distant trails, with no sign they had ever crossed paths at all, and no trail whatsoever above my head. If I hadn't been watching I would never have known, just like all the other X's I never saw that day.



So what was responsible for that X? It was a Swissair A330 and an Aer Lingus A320







The point of this? Well, this kind of sighting is viewed as being tellingly nefarious and many posts on ATS have made the claim that on clear days there are no planes and the sky is blue but then on spraying days the planes appear and leave visible X's and grids in the sky. This is simply not the case as most flight are regular and scheduled on daily to weekly frequencies, however you will not notice most of them as the trails they leave simply vanish and you never knew they were there.

Those trails I just pictured are an illustration of this. On another day those two same flights plus all the others during the day who trails were still around would leave a vast checkerboard pattern over my head, exactly as I have pictured in other posts. If you go to FR 24 and run it for my location for even just the hour before these shots were taken you will see many flights from all directions around my locality, and yet the sky all around in these images is clear and blue except for the flights I am watching. No planes on clear days? Not at all.