Gun Crimes Drop Dramatically, 2 Studies Confirm

reply to post by LuckyLucian


Yes that was meant more philosophically than anything, and I apologize if I made you mad I was simply trying to expand my understanding of your point of view on the matter.

That also was not meant to be a "they're commin for your guns" kind of answer but about the amount of control that the US govt. is going to start regulating everyone with, and not just americans. After this system of control is set up big brother and umbrella will start spreading there reaches further.

As for suggestions for fixing things I put it in an edit in my last post.

reply to post by Agit8dChop

Tell that to the people who wanted to see Batman in aurora... or the people who were helping teach young minds in Sandy hook. Tell that to the fireman who were called to a house fire to rescue people..
..maybe tell that to a handful of uni faculties who will never see their students again.

Tell that to the hunfreds of poor women who visited Dr. Gosnell thinking they could get free or low-cost "medical care " for their "illnesses" over the last 25 years.
When we quit taking life for granted and treating is so cheaply and callously, maybe we'll see a difference. Not before. Maybe we could outlaw scalpels and hospitals, where many people go to get healed and end up butchered, infected or broke.

Tell that to the mentally unstable and damaged soldiers returning from Iraq.
How about telling it to all the people at shopping malls, Ft Hood or whereever that gun crime was down.
How about you load this into your rifle and shoot it

What about Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Syria, Tunisia et c. where militant Islam kills innocents by the thousands every year?.Why isn't there a "cure" for that?

Put that in your organic granola and smoke it.

Five of the Twelve Deadliest Gun Massacres in U.S. History Took Place During Obama's First Term[/url]
Coincidence?

Stupid idiots.. you're all ego and bravado with your firearms until your child gets massacred by a mad man with a gun.

Or a scalpel and forceps. Or a school bus or public school locker room.
You ignore the most obviously preventable and harmful threats to our children: Public Schools and abortionists.

Who's the stupid idiot?

edit on 8-5-2013 by jdub297 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-5-2013 by jdub297 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by LuckyLucian

I state again, there is a gun violence problem in this country, not a gun problem, and there needs to be a solution.

Maybe one solution would be to stop taking life so callously and entrusting the State to be our supreme benefactor and protector woulld be a start? You couldn't come up with a single suggestion in all of your trants in all of the threads you've trolled? Pathetic.

What about raising our children to respect life and give them incentives to become productive, independent-thinlking citizens.

All you offer is gripe, hype and tripe.

reply to post by CB328

Guns are still dangerous and much more likely to cause harm than good.

It still amazes me that, Isn't it strange that after a bombing everyone blames the bomber, but after a shooting the problem is the gun!
WOW!!

reply to post by jdub297


I absolutely agree about the low information public and the media's portrayal, and I'm not "justifying" any damned thing. You're cherry picking specific percentages to make a point while ignoring others. I'm pointing out the others that you're excluding from your narrative. There is still gun violence. It's still a problem. Just because it's less now than it was 19 years ago doesn't mean it's "good" now.

It's a little odd to me that you say I don't cite a source when I'm replying to a thread about a report, in which it shows exactly what I said. Then, amusingly (ironically?), you ex-text exactly the information I was speaking about while at the same time saying:

Making up “facts” doesn’t help your cause; whatever it may be.

None of those things have anything whatsoever to do with guns, which I'll remind you, was the subject of the report you created the post about. Further, there is an "uproar" about many of these sorts of things. There are also people working on solutions to them. However, if there's ever someone saying peep about something like a possible flu pandemic, it's just "hype". Car accidents? Here in Chicago those Amber Alert signs over the expressways show a running tally of traffic fatalities in Illinois for the year. Keeping people aware is an important step in bringing those totals down. We also have regular commercials reminding people to stay alert and drive the posted speed limit in construction zones. But this is all just "hype" keeping us in fear. Absolutely the media and politicians took the opportunity to have Sandy Hook parents in DC to push an agenda. I do not deny that at all. However, Many of them wanted an opportunity themselves to make sure they were heard. So they, the parents, also had an agenda.

Ok, I'll go back further. American casualties of war in every war from World War I until this very day is roughly equal to the number of Americans other Americans have killed with guns here in our own country over the last 20 years. That, again, is not "hype". What does old age and heart attacks have to do with gun violence again?

There was no false logic in my statement. The homicide rate has come down. The number of mass killings has gone up. That has nothing to do with logic at all. It's just what it is. I do not know how many of those killings could have been avoided by a background check. I don't have that information and it's a bit too late for that, yes? What does abortion have to do with anything? Last I checked abortion wasn't homicide and it isn't performed with a gun.

As for solutions, I already went over that in another post on this thread so I'm not going to type that again.

I see a lot of people sticking to the script of deny deny deny.

I see a lot of people playing the emotional card without facing the hard realities- wasting everyones time
so they can somehow feel better about themselves in the end without giving in to sanity.

Agenda first and foremost- facts- and constitutional law be damned.

Im tired of dealing with and debating people who dont want a debate in the first place.

Just because some of you are too ignorant to face the reality that is- doesnt mean that the rest of us have to
be stuck on stupid as well.

All you are doing is wasting time-energy-money-and resources on a mission that was doomed before it even started. Changing gun laws wont change the personality traits of crazy people.

Me thinks that the reason a majority of dumb people are still stuck on this gun issue is because it keeps their mind busy with hate theatre; while every other aspect of our society gets robbed-raped-and beaten to near death without losing so much as one cheerleader.

If America collapsed tommorow- Obama would still have most of his 'supporters', or should I say "lifers"?

You dont care about gun crime- you just want more govt authority to dictate to other people how you think they should live-regardless of how they feel about it. The fact that you bring emotion and no facts proves this point.
Just because you yell or cry about something- doesnt instantly make you right.

People kill people. Guns are not the responsible party being held accountable.
When was the last time you seen an AK-47 on trial for murder?

If theres a leak in your pipe- fix the pipe- dont remodel your entire home.
If theres crazy killers on the loose- find the killers-dont go after the victims.

Stop already. Its not going to happen. If you all would take the debt crisis on as hard as you have with this anti gun bs-
maybe we would be a lot further along in getting our country back in order.

///but by all means--- keep on wasting precious time while we are all holding onto what little there is left.
Its not like this country has major problems at the moment.

In 4 years- nothing positive to show for it. Only excuses and blame. I dont think we can continue on like this for very long. You would think they have plenty of other REAL priorities that need to be dealt with. They dont seem too worried about it though, as if its not their problem.

Our debt crisis kills more people then mass murderers. Get mad! Or get silent and go along how you are told to.

reply to post by openeyeswideshut


Yeah, I was kind of rhetorically asking if it was philosophical, and there's no need for an apology, I'm not upset about it at all. I just seem to write a little brusquely and often need to clarify the tone may be a bit off from what I intended, so I apologize for that. I wasn't responding with the "coming for your guns" stuff to you specifically, just the general nature of the ATS lean on this issue. But I am just as concerned as most here about the Big Brother stuff going on in our government.

I fully agree with your edit. Too many people prioritize nonsense like who some Kardashian is dating over things that actually matter and it's maddening. Then they're spoonfed someone's agenda and don't give it another thought.

Not surprising.

reply to post by LuckyLucian

American casualties of war in every war from World War I until this very day is roughly equal to the number of Americans other Americans have killed with guns here in our own country over the last 20 years. That, again, is not "hype". What does old age and heart attacks have to do with gun violence again?

It has to do with the fact thta you and millions of others are fixated on GUNS without regard for perspective and proportion!

Before the world wars, people killed en-masse with blades, stones and sticks and bare hands. You and others like you, fed and stoked by the MSM and "progressive" leadership, magnify what is otherwise a minimal threatr RELATIVELY SPEAKING.

If all of you can single-out guns, why can't I single-out abortion, or obesity, or hunger?
You seem to beleive that only guns cause "mass killings," when mass dying goes on all around us, every day.
Simply because they didn't die together in a school or theater or mall, you are willing to overlook and ignore the hundreds who starve to death every day - most of them children.

Every year, millions die from otherwise common and preventable illnesses like measles, flu and malaria! Where's your outrage and hysteruia and hype now, Moses?

Where's the call for better building standards in Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Mexico and esewhere where hundreds die from collapse, fire and explosions?

I'll repeat it again becuase you either chose to ignore it or didn't understand:

The purpose of the thread is NOT to highlight gun deaths, but the American public's exaggeration of the threat and the MSM's preying upon simple minds who will overlook the more obvious AND PREVETABLE threats without involving individual rights, freedoms or the Constitution.,

Get a grip, step back and think about what REALLY is killing masses and CAN be prevented painlessly.
You won't or can't because you are fixated on firearms.

jw

Why won't the mainstream media cover this? Probably because a vast majority of the audience doesn't have the mental capacity to process the raw data in the report.

For example, gun zealots will latch on to a snippet here and there to simply confirm what they already believe. Crime drops so you immediately conclude it's because there is at least 0.8 guns for every human in the nation. So once we get to 1.6/person crime will be gone right?

Ignorant self aggrandization. everyone is against us blah blah blah. Read the whole study, I dare you. Only then can you whine about somebody not delivering the information to you.

reply to post by jdub297


Just because they are lower doesn't mean gun crime isn't a problem, in reference today we are seeing about the same numbers as the late 70's. Statistics

Also I still haven't seen any legislation offered by the house to remove all guns from the populace or even see how minimal bans will even pass outside the state level.

In reference America has about 10X the amount of gun deaths then other civilized countries. Awareness is the key here and politics 101 is to shoot high to strike low. Guns aren't going anywhere but the way they are obtained needs to be looked at this day and age, the fact that you can by a gun and it still is recorded on paper is a clear reason for this. Many states don't keep track of where they went or have systems in place to even verify that the licenses used to obtain them are legitimate. If the pro-gun crowd would admit changes need to be taken in these areas I guarantee the other side would back way down. Again politics 101.

Sincerely,
Gun Owner Massachusetts

reply to post by NoJoker13

"Gun Crime" is less of a problem than "alcohol crime," "moron (a legitimate measurement) crime," "black crime," "white crime," or "car crime."
Where's the outrage?
Where's the MSM expose's?

There has neem no legislation introduced yet in either house, or suggested by the administration, that would've prevented any one of the "gun crimes" that have absorbed the masses and gathered the politicos into a seething mass, clamoring for "change, any change."

I've said it before: Until w properly value life, and teach our children such values, no legislation will alter the cheapening of human life we've (or any other generation has) witnessed.

Just because they are lower doesn't mean gun crime isn't a problem, in reference today we are seeing about the same numbers as the late 70's. Statistics

The exact same thing can be said about automobiles and intoxicants. So what?

Also I still haven't seen any legislation offered by the house to remove all guns from the populace or even see how minimal bans will even pass outside the state level.

Which reveal the reflexive myopia of the ignorant populace. Why should we even look to the feds for a "solution?" What makes some D.C. hack any more qualified to find a solution *they haven't yet in 100 years) than anyone at the state or local level? Why do we default to Washington to save us from idiots and ourselves (redundancy intended)?

In reference America has about 10X the amount of gun deaths then other civilized countries.

And in your esteemed opinion, which are the un-civilized countries of which we should be afeared?

Awareness is the key here

And we've seen none anywhere yet,.

Many states don't keep track of where they went or have systems in place to even verify that the licenses used to obtain them are legitimate. If the pro-gun crowd would admit changes need to be taken in these areas I guarantee the other side would back way down.

OK. Tomorrow every gun purchase is "recorded on paper." How does that change the "gun crimes" threat? IT DOESN'T!

How does that change the pressure cooker crime threat, or the underwear threat, or the shoe threat or the ricin threat?

jw

reply to post by jdub297


An steps to curb 'alcohol' crime have been taken and that has also dropped. So if taking steps to drop a certain type of crime can be taken why not do it? Crimes for gun offenders have been raised so in that instance some steps have been taken, but not being able to track who owns what is a serious problem. Also a data base would significantly lower gun crime, there's many factors of why but one reason is to be able to track a gun used in a crime back to the end user, I know you'd say all you have to do is file off a serial number but many criminals don't. I could go on but there doesn't seem to be a point, You seem very set in your position and since that is the case there isn't any need for a further debate. Also is your avatar sarcasm? Since Pink Floyd supports pacifism.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Tell that to the people who wanted to see Batman in aurora...

or the people who were helping teach young minds in Sandy hook.

Tell that to the fireman who were called to a house fire to rescue people..

..maybe tell that to a handful of uni faculties who will never see their students again.

Tell that to the mentally unstable and damaged soldiers returning from Iraq.

How about telling it to all the people at shopping malls, Ft Hood or whereever that gun crime was down.

How about you load this into your rifle and shoot it

gawker.com...

Five of the Twelve Deadliest Gun Massacres in U.S. History Took Place During Obama's First Term

Between 2008 - 2012, 5 of the 12 most deadliest gun massacres in the USA took place.

Stupid idiots.. you're all ego and bravado with your firearms until your child gets massacred by a mad man with a gun.

Whatever, the world is a dangerous place. People die, it is a fact. Sometimes it is brutal and ends a life far before it should have ended naturally; sometimes it takes a bunch of people at the same time. HOWEVER, the government cannot legislate us into complete safety where no one dies. People like you who think that just by taking away a tool used to kill people will suddenly make people safer are just foolish. People will still die, they will still die before their time, and many will die at the hands of another person.

Sure it's sad that these people were massacred, but it doesn't change the fact that in total there were more people killed in many of the major urban areas in a given month then there were killed at these massacres, or overseas in one of the many wars we are fighting. It just seems a lot worse because so many dies at once. This clip sums up my sentiments when I see posts like yours:

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by jdub297

 

An steps to curb 'alcohol' crime have been taken and that has also dropped.

We addressed the drinker, not the alcohol, to make a real difference. Get it?

So if taking steps to drop a certain type of crime can be taken why not do it? Crimes for gun offenders have been raised so in that instance some steps have been taken, but not being able to track who owns what is a serious problem.

Really? How?
If my gun stays in my hand or my house, how does that make a difference?

Also a data base would significantly lower gun crime,

How? More sophistry, without any basis in support

. there's many factors of why but one reason is to be able to track a gun used in a crime back to the end user,

Tracking a gun "back to the end user" doesn't prevent anything (although it may be useful in future prosecutions).

Also is your avatar sarcasm? Since Pink Floyd supports pacifism.

BS. Pink Floyd were cynics who derided the intrusion of the State. They mocked people's willingness to give up responsinility in exchange for dependency upon others for support, education and healthcare, They castigated dependency and acceptance of the status quo. Have you listend to "Animals?"

"Hey, teacher; leave us kids alone."

jw