British and French AFs swap EF and Rafale Pilots?

Per an article in RAF Family Federation, the French and British have "soloed" each other's top line aircraft.

Nothing in the article spoke of anything beyond "soloing" and naming each pilot and their credentials.

It would be interesting to follow this story and any gossip regarding these two platforms.

Given the history between these two countries it's hard to imagine that national pride won't trump "good manners" with trash talk resulting sooner or later about which is the better platform. I'm a bit surprised nothing's been said yet.

Apparently, this isn't the first pilot exchange between the two but it is the a first that they are flying the top of the line aircraft of the each other's Air Force.

Anyone heard anything about this?

add to this the brits do not have a aircraft carrier and will need to borrow the french one and even when one is ready they will not have planes to fly for years after . some genius in the military spent a billion up grading the harrier squadron then sold them to america for peanuts no wonder the countrys in a mess

Originally posted by billdadobbie
add to this the brits do not have a aircraft carrier and will need to borrow the french one and even when one is ready they will not have planes to fly for years after . some genius in the military spent a billion up grading the harrier squadron then sold them to america for peanuts

no wonder the countrys in a mess

Why would we "need to borrow the French one"? We won't be doing CATOBAR ops, and we won't be operating similar carrier systems, and we are already training with the USMC. If anything, we will be operating F-35s off of the USMC carriers rather than the French ones.

Oh, and regardless of what happened to the Harrier fleet, they were never due to operate off the new Royal Navy carriers - they were always due for retirement prior to the in service date of the Elizabeth and Charles. There was to be no cross over between the Harrier and the F-35 on the same carrier, so to that end their quick retirement changed nothing.

The upgrades were hardly a waste either, as they proved useful in Afghan theatre of operations.

There was no intent to disrespect either in this thread. More to get a better picture of the relative attributes of both the Typhoon and the Rafale. Perhaps via a little trash talk between nations-unlikely to happen.

Both are fine, top-line 4 plus gen fighters.

Again, if anyone hears anything, there's many who'd appreciate the info....

Originally posted by nwtrucker
There was no intent to disrespect either in this thread. More to get a better picture of the relative attributes of both the Typhoon and the Rafale. Perhaps via a little trash talk between nations-unlikely to happen.

Both are fine, top-line 4 plus gen fighters.

Again, if anyone hears anything, there's many who'd appreciate the info....

Exchange pilots aren't anything new, the RAF have had pilots flying with the USAF (F-117, F-15 and F-16), RCAF (F-18, including as an instructor pilot with the 410), RAAF (F-18E/F) and more.

It's all part of a healthy inter-service camaraderie, although I was sure the RAF had pilots checked out on the Rafale already!

RichardPrice, that would also include the F-22 for RAF exchange pilots. Still, per the article not top line, equipment between the French and the RAF.

Perhaps when France was still involved with the EF there might have been more interaction with the Raffy..just a guess.

Was the UK and France not meant to be signing some kinda of joint carrier ops agreement?

I'm sure I read somewhere a while back that we were entering some kinda deal where there was always either a British or French carrier at sea, and I'm assuming that there maybe be some cross manning of crew/aircrew (not planes obviously)

Originally posted by maintainright
Was the UK and France not meant to be signing some kinda of joint carrier ops agreement?

I'm sure I read somewhere a while back that we were entering some kinda deal where there was always either a British or French carrier at sea, and I'm assuming that there maybe be some cross manning of crew/aircrew (not planes obviously)

That was dependent on the French buying a carrier of the same class of our two, which hasn't happened so the joint ops force agreement never happened.

RichardPrice, besides, the French have a hard time keeping their carriers at sea. Don't they call the De Gaulle "the Harbour Queen"?

Maybe the RAF/RN are just edging their bets and having a good look at the Rafale in case a certain project is cancelled or only a reduced amount are purchased....just a thought...!

Originally posted by Silentvulcan
Maybe the RAF/RN are just edging their bets and having a good look at the Rafale in case a certain project is cancelled or only a reduced amount are purchased....just a thought...!

If the F-35B is cancelled, this time round the new carriers will either be scrapped or sold off - there is no political will to spend the £4billion it would cost to convert them to CATOBAR ops after the abysmal failed attempt of the 2010 SDSR - and without CATOBAR capability, there is no reason to buy Rafales as they couldn't operate from the carriers.

If the UK scraps its F-35 buy, it would either not replace them with anything or it would buy more Typhoons, they wouldn't bother introducing another new type in its place.

I take it you mean normal Typhoons and not a navilised version...??? Are the carriers of sufficient length for A/C to take off, with the aid of a headwind and skijump, without a cat.....? The Chinese are using this method at the moment on their "carrier" I assume as a stop gap until a cat equipped carrier comes into service.

Originally posted by Silentvulcan
I take it you mean normal Typhoons and not a navilised version...??? Are the carriers of sufficient length for A/C to take off, with the aid of a headwind and skijump, without a cat.....? The Chinese are using this method at the moment on their "carrier" I assume as a stop gap until a cat equipped carrier comes into service.

You can use the ski jump, but there would be a significant weight penalty for the aircraft - plus you still need to switch to arrested landings, sort out the angled flight deck, develop the buddy refuelling system etc etc. And there's no political will there for that - the current government scrapped the plan to do exactly that as it cost too much, and the opposition party derided them for making the switch in the first place. No one would commit to it.

So more Typhoons for the RAF and the RN loses its fixed wing capability permanently.

reply to post by nwtrucker


In an integrated Europe, why wouldn't they do that?

Sooner or later Europe is going to combine its military operations. There is a tacit understanding between the British and French Navies of that now I think - thats probably the reason for this. Its been rumoured for a long time that our SSBN's also rotate with the French ones.

reply to post by neformore


I really wasn't questioning the political aspect at all. After all, there's plenty of You Tube videos of Rafales doing touch and goes, as well as actual landings, on U.S.Carriers. France and the U.S. are rarely on the same political page.

However, seeing you bring it up, on this side of the pond, the consensus is that this united Europe is on very shaky ground, largely due to the Eurozone issues.

My uneducated guess is an integrated military for Europe has never looked more unlikely than it does right now.

Either way, after the DACT in the UAE where the Typhoon reportedly got waxed by the Rafale by 7-1, my interest was in the pilot opinions of each other's platforms.

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by nwtrucker

 

In an integrated Europe, why wouldn't they do that?

Sooner or later Europe is going to combine its military operations. There is a tacit understanding between the British and French Navies of that now I think - thats probably the reason for this. Its been rumoured for a long time that our SSBN's also rotate with the French ones.

If the British public ever gets asked we wont be part of the 'Integrated Europe' as its currently arranged.

While co-operation is always desirable our defence posture should be sufficient to defend our interests without needing the French to agree.

reply to post by nwtrucker


I shouldn't much into it - this is just as a result of increased defence co-operation due to a deal done in 2010. The UK also does the same with US (and I dare say other NATO countries) - in fact, our pilots are unique in having been allowed to fly the USAF's most shiny toys...

Originally posted by billdadobbie
add to this the brits do not have a aircraft carrier and will need to borrow the french one and even when one is ready they will not have planes to fly for years after . some genius in the military spent a billion up grading the harrier squadron then sold them to america for peanuts

no wonder the countrys in a mess

None of what you said above is even remotely true.

Firstly, we haven't had an Aircraft carrier since Hermes was mothballed in '84 and we've managed just fine.

Secondly, we're not going to "borrow" the Charles de Gaulle. We haven't got anything that can land on it aside Helo's and we have our own Helo carriers. The F-35's will be in service in 2018, which is fine as the first of our 2 new carriers won't be finished until 2015 and it will take a while to get the crew and ship in order anyway.

The GR.9's you mention had a good 5 years service out of them in Afghan (they weren't new planes either, so they had many years previous service) and they were RAF planes anyway, not RN. There hasn't been a strike aircraft piloted in the Fleet Air Arm since 2005.

And £1.6 million per airframe (each of which was up to 20 years old) wasn't a bad deal....

Originally posted by maintainright
Was the UK and France not meant to be signing some kinda of joint carrier ops agreement?

I'm sure I read somewhere a while back that we were entering some kinda deal where there was always either a British or French carrier at sea, and I'm assuming that there maybe be some cross manning of crew/aircrew (not planes obviously)

Yup - that was part of the 2010 Defence agreement we signed with them.

Originally posted by neformore
Its been rumoured for a long time that our SSBN's also rotate with the French ones.

I believe that as well as rotating - they also patrol different regions to maximise any response.

All this is conjecture, though.... No one knows except a very few