Congress may be moving forward with traceable cash.

How would the rfid chip in the bucks i gave johnny to mow my lawn know money changed hands?

Just curious... it would have to know it changed from one person to another. How would it do this?

Originally posted by gladtobehere

Good idea.

Op, thanks much for this, I'll be looking for more info and updates...

What else can we use as money? I'm with Bitcoin, doing well for me, despite the said controversy surrounding it.

Originally posted by Terminal1
How would the rfid chip in the bucks i gave johnny to mow my lawn know money changed hands?

Just curious... it would have to know it changed from one person to another. How would it do this?

Exactly what I'm wondering. Possibly that for it to be valid at stores after someone is given the money in exchange for services, etc., it would have to be changed over to your name by a bank, or something similar?

So: here's a question, are members of congress going to be immune to the traceable cash as well?

Originally posted by Terminal1
Possibly that for it to be valid at stores after someone is given the money in exchange for services, etc., it would have to be changed over to your name by a bank, or something similar?

Wow... they could do something like this. Well, good thing there are Bitcoins. I wonder how long until something like paying for services in cash, or using bitcoins, or something like that is considered treason or terrorism.

I've been wondering about the treason thing for a while now. Since the government has basically turned into a money-making machine for businesses instead of individuals, wouldn't it make sense for someone who doesn't spend every bit of their day making money for some tycoon to be a traitor?

Originally posted by jazzguy
is there no end to the stupidity in the american government?
say, if this goes ahead this will trickle down to my country just like every stupid law your idiotic government makes up. for the love of god, control your government americans. because soon every man and his dog is going to hate you, if they dont already. get off your iphones, turn off jersey shore, put down the big mac and CONTROL YOUR GOVERNMENT.


But you love our money....

The government is already tracking people with micro RFID chips...they are in a dust form...you touch em and dont know it but they can find you...lots of high security facilities have this very measure inplace allready.

reply to post by gladtobehere


Just here to say what does congress have to do with money?

Originally posted by Romeo1
The government is already tracking people with micro RFID chips...they are in a dust form...you touch em and dont know it but they can find you...lots of high security facilities have this very measure inplace allready.

Yes there are micro RFID chips but, as I stated earlier in this thread, this type of chip is "passive" meaning it has no power source and therefore has to be within a certain distance of a reader to respond. There are MANY other factors that go into being able to read these chips such as distance, orientation, line of sight, etc....

I think people are getting RFID REALLY confused with GPS or similar types of coordinate location devices. These chips must be read by a localized reader based on the type of chip being used. No government could sit in an office and simply bring up a global RFID tracker based in space and find anything. And to track someone or an asset they have to be within the range of the tag whether it is passive or active in order to get a hit.

RFID is more for close proximity monitoring of inventory or the like. It is very cool that they are using it in mining operations now as well to help find miners that have been trapped, but again that is based on having readers placed a multiple locations within a mine, active tags and they can only pinpoint what reader that miner went by the last time in order to look for them in between the point they passed and the point they did not.

so they would know where this twelve billion dollars went? seems like a good idea.

www.guardian.co.uk...

How the US sent $12bn in cash to Iraq. And watched it vanish Special flights brought in tonnes of banknotes which disappeared into the war zone

Originally posted by Flatfish

Oh yes they can! I once saw a video where a guy showed you exactly how to drive down the road and not only scan all RFID chips in the area, but also how to duplicate them.

All RFID is not the same. Grant you, I think I know the one you're talking about, he was being intentionally deceptive. I called him on it on his own blog and made him eat it.

He purchased some relatively inexpensive equipment at his local electronics dealer and demonstrated how he could remotely read the RFID chips in people's credit cards, (while their cards are still in their wallets and purses) and later duplicate them on blank credit cards where they could be used to purchase items at the owners expense.

Nope, that one you can't do. Because credit cards use h-field parts. What he was doing was reading PASS cards (not passports, btw) and EDL drivers' licenses.

He did all this while driving down the road, scanning everyone who was walking around within a 4 or 5 hundred foot radius of his location. He went on to say that he could dramatically increase the range of his equipment for very little additional cost.

Not quite. And yeah, he did claim he could, and on his blog in the same series of posts he ate that one too. He THOUGHT he could, but had never quite managed it. Because you can't, not in a practical manner.

Knowing this, I wouldn't doubt for one minute that a drone could read these chips with very little difficulty.

You should.

Originally posted by coldkidc
IF the bills would be able to store information & exchange information with other RFID chips it would be a problem & a massive invasion of privacy (ie. you're $20 is talking to your Citibank card while they're in your wallet)

If not - then I don't see the material difference between the RFID & the serial number

They don't talk to each other. They have no means to do so.

One difference is that these are e-field parts, you could read the serial numbers from maybe 100-200 feet away, but I'm not sure what good that does you. Maybe you could use it to spot people hiding in a room. You couldn't tell where they were, but you could tell there was money there.

And I suppose you could, if scanners were ubiquitous, "turn off" cash. If the chip had to be intact for the money to be valid currency, then you wouldn't dare destroy the part, and you could turn off stolen money, or money of people you didn't like anymore. The flip side of that is that RFID doesn't last long in such an environment, the flex is a real issue. Folding it up, getting it wet, sitting on it, these are all bad things. If mechanical damage invalidated currency we'd all be in trouble.

Originally posted by Vasa Croe
Not only that, but the reader this guy would have to have used in an active active situation would also have to be able to disseminate between all signals that were coming back to be read. If the focus or subject had more than one RFID tag on their person or in their wallet the transmission would "activate" all tags to send a response back which would jumble the information making it impossible to read. The subject would have to ONLY have one RFID tag on their person. This would also require the software to decrypt the encryption and coding on the tag which all RFID manufacturers use these days for that purpose.

You can do that. Some tag designs allow for multiple tags in the field. You use an algorithm called ALOHA to sort through all the tags in the field until you find the one you want, or you can accumulate all the responses and end up with a table of what's in the interrogator's target field.

However, ALOHA, IIRC, takes a time to run proportional to the square of the number of tags in the field. Which is another issue I raised with that guy (I'll have to go find the article and my responses to it). If you have 10, or 20 tags in the field, no issue. If you're scanning six city blocks worth of cash, the response times mount to the minutes. That sort of thing gets you tags moving into and out of the field during the enumeration which makes the task monumentally more difficult.

And more to the point, I can jam any distance reader with a circuit I could put in a key fob.

Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by Beartracker16

 

You need some RFID research and you will see it can read or be readable up to 5 miles now.

No #ing way. That's not going to happen, and not the least of which is that old square of the distance thing. You could not possibly get enough power to the tag to activate it. And then you've got to measure a reflectivity change of a few percent at 5 miles. I can tell you that won't happen.

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
reply to post by Vasa Croe

 

The mag strip might not contain that info, but the microchip behind the hologram does. This is how you can utilize those RFID payment kiosks at gas stations. "Fast Pass" or whatever they're called. You just wave your card over this reader and a payment is processed.

The ones at gas stations use TIRIS, and you have a special gas card to use it. It's a very old RFID system, but it's dirt cheap.

They don't read your non-chipped (or chipped) credit cards. Not all credit cards have chips. The ones that do have h-field chips, not e-field, and can't be read at a distance. They're similar to dog chips.

Originally posted by stormcell
That's the same way that cellphone towers communicate with mobile phones. The mobile phone may only be able to transmit at milliwatt energies (a terrestrial national TV transmitter broadcasts at megawatt energies), but its the cellphone tower that has the amplifiers and broadcasts at kilowatt energies.

You'll never see a cell tower broadcast at kilowatt levels. They're like 50W per antenna. You don't need to cover more than the horizon area, those frequencies are line of sight.

Another crucial difference is that your cellphone has a battery in, and it actually transmits something.

RFID does neither. It has no battery, it doesn't transmit.

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
reply to post by stormcell

 

Yes, I was going to say that cell towers may have something to do with the reason my credit/debit card didn't work after I cut it up. It seems like the only plausible explanation. Those towers are everywhere, and it is "Radio Frequency Identification" chip after all....Cell towers use certain radio frequencies...

Only in this case, it may be 'radio frequency' but it's not radio. Credit cards use magnetic fields. They also don't do this anywhere NEAR the frequency associated with a cell tower. So - wrong transmission mode, wrong frequency, no communication. Sorry.

Originally posted by Romeo1
The government is already tracking people with micro RFID chips...they are in a dust form...you touch em and dont know it but they can find you...lots of high security facilities have this very measure inplace allready.

Not at all.

There's not sufficient room for an antenna. What you likely saw was that Hitachi part. It's not "dust", it's more like "salt grains", and guess what! It's only the chip part. You still need the antenna part, which is about the size of a playing card. And they don't do collision avoidance, so one at a time in the reader area.

RF needs an antenna with a size related to the frequency you're using. The end. You can't have invisibly small RFID. You can make the silicon quite small, but you still have to attach it to an antenna, which you can see in one of those photos of the chipped currency in the OP.

I wouldn't be surprised if Walmart is somehow in the middle of this. I recall they were wanting an RFID type of technology to advance to the point where the cost would be negligible enough to be included in all items by the manufactures . much ike barcodes. I think they even tried to put a deadline for their suppliers to develop such a technology.

They could dramatically lower their operating cost and decrease stolen items by having people just walk in their store grab what they want and just walk out. It would also decrease inventory cost overhead. More importantly it would allow them to build a very accurate customers database of buying habits.

I see a a man-less ran 24 hour walmart in the future. The good thing is, the service we are accustomed to receiving in walmart should stay the same as today .

Originally posted by interupt42
More importantly it would allow them to build a very accurate customers database of buying habits.

They do that now. Pay by card or check, or if you use a gift card, or some sort of affiliation card like a Kroger card, and many stores instantly categorize what you're buying and when.

Then give that data to the government, through a backdoor purchase. Why do you think you get a discount when you use that Vons card? They are paid by a data collection group, who markets that data.

In addition, Walmart photographs you every time you buy something and associates it with that purchase, and they have a really big data center that can do image recognition, so pay by cash, it's fine too. If they ever associate an ID and your face, you go right ahead and pay by cash, they can tell it's you anyway.

Most people don't know that. They ship off DVDs of photo data to Wallyworld Central regularly. We needed a photo of someone once, got it from Walmart. It's friggin amazing.