What is the highest good? (I say "Patience" rather than "Love")

reply to post by arpgme


Compassion.
With compassion for your fellow man all the good things will automatically follow.

Originally posted by Bybyots
reply to post by Hopechest

 

There are many creatures at the bottom of the Sea that never see the sun and live just fine. Or they live in pools of water deep underground in a cave and survive in total isolation.

Ah, and how would you know any of that, about fish or justice, without your eye having the benefit of the light of the sun?

If you were to steal from your neighbor in the daytime how could the sun be the greatest good?

Obviously the sun is not making you the best person you can be.

reply to post by arpgme


I'd say trust is the highest good.

Peace

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
reply to post by arpgme

 

I'd say trust is the highest good.

Peace

Nope, it has no ethical or moral standards attached to it.

You may trust your neighbor completely yet yourself may still commit a crime against him.

reply to post by Hopechest






I don't follow your logic?


'Murder' is not a norm ... It is possible for a murderer to love to be patient and tolerant, and

'outwardly' all things that any other person is!...but I thought this thread was a discussion on a

code of decency for living by??

Originally posted by eletheia
reply to post by Hopechest

 

I don't follow your logic?

'Murder' is not a norm ... It is possible for a murderer to love to be patient and tolerant, and

'outwardly' all things that any other person is!...but I thought this thread was a discussion on a

code of decency for living by??

Yes but for something to be considered the highest good that you possess you would not murder or commit any crime.

Your right. You can love and be patient and tolerant and still be a bad person so none of those things is the highest good that a person can have.

You can have all the compassion in the world and still do evil.

I believe the OP is asking about what a person can possess that will make him the most ethical, moral, and decent person that is possible.

In my view it can only be justice.

Justice is a concept of moral rightness based on ethics, rationality, law, natural law, religion, equity or fairness, as well as the administration of the law, taking into account the inalienable and inborn rights of all human beings and citizens, the right of all people and individuals to equal protection before the law of their civil rights, without discrimination on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, color, ethnicity, religion, disability, age, or other characteristics, and is further regarded as being inclusive of social justice.

Originally posted by eletheia
reply to post by Hopechest

 

I don't follow your logic?

'Murder' is not a norm ... It is possible for a murderer to love to be patient and tolerant, and

'outwardly' all things that any other person is!...but I thought this thread was a discussion on a

code of decency for living by??

If you are starving, suffering and on the verge of death then you decided to steal food from a corporation, would you consider that decent? If someone tried to kill you and you killed them is that decent? Who is deciding who's "code" of conduct in this crazy ass world. Murder is the norm if you decide that drone strikes are murder. If you consider it collateral damage for a greater "good" you wont see it as murder. This thread is amusing at best for me but the only discussion here i see is weather people play in a "small box" or a "big box".

reply to post by Hopechest

Originally posted by Hopechest
I would say Justice is the highest good.

All of your examples stem from it and without it none are possible.

That's not true. "justice" is not necessary in order to have acceptance. In fact, acceptance is more likely to lead to forgiveness rather than justice.

reply to post by MadMax7

Originally posted by MadMax7
I know of some very patient yet devious people.

So your theory falls flat already...and besides.. one without all the others does not amount to much anyway.

What are you defining "good" and "devious" to be?

Originally posted by TheomExperience
Yeah whats good again. My mum says she loves me but shes the first to ring the cops on me when she thinks i am in trouble because she doesn't understand me one iota. Her version of love is control. Now i wont speak to her but i love love her just the same, i just cant stand the needy desire that people maintain is "love"

Sometimes 'love' hurts?

True love is the doing of what one believes is the very best

for the object of that very love?

The problems occur because no two peoples beliefs on what is 'good' is the same!

reply to post by eletheia

Originally posted by eletheia

The problems occur because no two peoples beliefs on what is 'good' is the same!

Exactly, which is why I asked people "what is the highest good" and to "define good" in the original post.

It was already expected that there would be disagreements, but I was expecting for people to at least define their idea of good before stating what the highest "good" is in their opinion....

reply to post by arpgme


Don't think of justice in terms of the law. Think of it as a "just" person.

It basically means being honorable and fair in all your dealings in actions. This would make a person the best person he/she could be.

reply to post by Hopechest






# Justice? #


One persons perceptions of justice is certainly not another's ... I cannot count the

number of times I have disagreed with justice as is dispensed by the system

However I am a great believer in fairness

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by eletheia

 

Originally posted by eletheia

The problems occur because no two peoples beliefs on what is 'good' is the same!

Exactly, which is why I asked people "what is the highest good" and to "define good" in the original post.

It was already expected that there would be disagreements, but I was expecting for people to at least define their idea of good before stating what the highest "good" is in their opinion....

This is why I picked justice because it does involve behaving according to the laws and rules set up by the society in which you live.

They determine what is ultimately right and wrong so a "just" person would be the best.

Originally posted by Hopechest
Nope, it has no ethical or moral standards attached to it.

You may trust your neighbor completely yet yourself may still commit a crime against him.

Huh??

The trust between you and your neighbor is a strategic trust..

If you trust your neighbor to keep his word and if your neighbor trusts you to keep your word, you can reach an agreement to cooperate and thus make both better off.

I'm talking about moralistic trust..

Moralistic trust is the belief that others share your fundamental moral values and therefore should be treated as you would wish to be treated by them.

Peace

Originally posted by RobertF
Your idea only works if our essence is indeed love.

Love doesn't feed me
Love doesn't keep me warm at night
Love doesn't keep me safe from harm

Survival does though, not a single creature on earth lives on the emotion of love alone.

Name a single non-human that can survive on "love"...

I guess we have a dfferent perception of love.

The love to which I refer is the love which sustains my very existence.

Originally posted by Hopechest
Yep, and you can love somebody and still kill them.

I would say that is emotional attachment, passion, or lust, but not love.

Sorry, double post.

Originally posted by eletheia

Sometimes 'love' hurts?

True love is the doing of what one believes is the very best

for the object of that very love?

The problems occur because no two peoples beliefs on what is 'good' is the same!

Love only hurts if someone does not get what they want. Since i was never "owned" by anyone it cannot be my concern if they don't get what they want from me as an "object". My mum can do whatever she wants to herself but i have made it clear she cannot apply this influence onto me because whats best for her certainly is not whats best for me.
I cant agree with your last sentence more. My mum hurts because she cant access my reality anymore but i do not hurt at all. Why? Because she feels like she has failed in life and wants to live vicariously through my existence making her own adjustments when she sees fit. She means well but she is no more awake to her reality than a "smart monkey"

reply to post by Hopechest

Originally posted by Hopechest
reply to post by arpgme

 

Don't think of justice in terms of the law. Think of it as a "just" person.

It basically means being honorable and fair in all your dealings in actions. This would make a person the best person he/she could be.

Ok, I understand what you mean now. I still believe it takes patience though. If the world is not being "fair" it can easily lead to thoughts such as "well if no one else is fair why should I be - that would be fair in itself". When one chooses a moral to live by, it takes patience to follow it even in rough times understanding that it'll lead to self-fulfillment and hopefully a 'better' life (however one defines that to be).

reply to post by mysticnoon

Originally posted by mysticnoon
I guess we have a dfferent perception of love.

The love to which I refer is the love which sustains my very existence.

And that "love" which sustains your existence... would be "what"? What is the definition of this love? Otherwise it is an unknowable or unspeakable concept...

reply to post by Hopechest

Originally posted by Hopechest
reply to post by arpgme

 

Don't think of justice in terms of the law. Think of it as a "just" person.

It basically means being honorable and fair in all your dealings in actions. This would make a person the best person he/she could be.

Ok, I understand what you mean now. I still believe it takes patience though. If the world is not being "fair" it can easily lead to thoughts such as "well if no one else is fair why should I be - that would be fair in itself". When one chooses a moral to live by, it takes patience to follow it even in rough times understanding that it'll lead to self-fulfillment and hopefully a 'better' life (however one defines that to be).

reply to post by mysticnoon

Originally posted by mysticnoon
I guess we have a dfferent perception of love.

The love to which I refer is the love which sustains my very existence.

And that "love" which sustains your existence... would be "what"? What is the definition of this love? Otherwise it is an unknowable or unspeakable concept...