Did they find Atlantis today?

reply to post by Mad Simian


Ancient Greek

PDF with 'easy' ancient Greek

Brown university site

Oxford Uni sources

Couldn't find a classical or ancient greek version of T & C I would suspect it would show up in classical greek only and not English.

Originally posted by spiritualarchitect
reply to post by Hopechest

 

Hellanicus of Lesbos, a Greek writer born 63 years before Plato, wrote a work called "Atlantis". In it he mentions Poseidon, the founder of Atlantis, Poseidon's firstborn son Atlas, the first king of Atlantis, and his seven daughters.

Sorry, no. Hellanicus' work, of which a couple of mere tatters remains, is about the family of the Titan Atlas, a god, and not the first king of Atlantis, a mortal, (or at best, a demigod, though not described that way by Plato.)

The Seven Daughters of the Titan Atlas are better known as the Pleiades. Look it up.

Originally posted by spiritualarchitectBefore Plato was born, Herodotus, the "father of history," mentions Atlantis by name, saying the waters beyond the Straits of Gibraltar were said to be known as the Atlantis Sea. He does this in his book “Clio ~ The Histories, book 1”, which was begun in 450BC.

Thanks for citing which book, I couldn't remember in my previous post that explained the "Atlantes" living in the Atlas Mountains.

Herodotus did indeed refer to the Atlantis Sea. However, the term "Atlantis" actually translates (loosely) as "of or having to do with Atlas." Herodotus was referring to the Sea of Atlas.

Again, the Atlantic Ocean was so named by the Greeks after the Titan Atlas, which was thought to be holding up the sky in the Atlas mountains (at first) then later "to the West," you know, the direction you would go to reach the Atlantic.

BTW, our term "Atlantic" also means "of Atlas," so to this day we refer to the "Sea of Atlas" (which is what Herodotus said) owing to the Greek name and not because of Atlantis.

Plato took advantage of the name of the ocean's name to come up with the name for his fictional Atlantis.

Originally posted by spiritualarchitectHis writing also states that all the Athenian armies were drowned at the time, so no reason to think the original Athens would have survived either, as the whole area from Istanbul to Crete at that time was above water.

In fact, he states they "sank inot the Earth." A convenient literary device for why the Greeks had no knowledge of the tale.

Originally posted by spiritualarchitectPlato’s grandfather Solon herd the tale from a group of Egyptian Priests at Sais, around 560 BC, which they knew from ancient tablets and writings on columns within Egypt.

Solon was not Plato's grandfather. Is it too much to ask that a poster actually read what Plato wrote before holding forth on what Plato said?

Continued:

Harte

Originally posted by spiritualarchitect
Plato says Atlantis was ruled by ten kings before it disappeared. Egyptian mythology states there was originally 10 god-kings, who ruled in a foreign country. They were called Auriteans. Sanchuniathon in 1193 BC calls the same kings "Aleteans". This was 600 years before Plato was born.

No, Plato predates Manetho.

Again, perhaps you should try to learn about your subject before making such bold, and error-filled, posts. It might lend a smidgen of credibility, a trait which you utterly lack due to your ignorance on the very subject you're pontificating on.
Manethos works are all lost. The oldest writings that refer to Manetho - that appear to actually quote him - comes from Josephus, about 400 years after Manetho. Here's what you're talking about:

[44] From the Egyptian records of Manetho, who wrote a three-volume work about the gods, demi-gods, spirits, and the mortal kings who ruled over the Egyptians, to the time of the Persian king Darius.

The first being among the Egyptians was Hephaestus, who discovered fire for them. He was succeeded by the Sun (Arm. Aregakn), (who was succeeded by Agathodaemon, followed) by Cronos, followed by Osiris. Then came Typhon, Osiris' brother, then Horus, who was the son of Osiris and Isis. These [entities] were the first rulers of the Egyptians. After them, one ruler succeeded the next until the time of Bidis, for a period of 13,900 years. This [was calculated] as lunar years of 30 days each, for what we now call a month was called a year in those days.

That's from Eusebias' Chronicle, the Egyptian portion.

Please note that this is a list of succeeding god-kings. In Plato's tale you will find, when you bother to read it, that the ten kings were brothers, and each ruled simultaneously over their own portion of Atlantis.

Now, do you completely discount the possibility that Plato knew about ten ancient kings in myth (of Egypt) and borrowed the idea?

Originally posted by spiritualarchitectAncient texts in Egypt, Greece and Mesopotamia refer to the 10 god-kings, and also list their replacements, which occurred at around 9850 BC.

Please link to evidence that you know what you're talking about here, and not simply continuing to "borrow" from R. Cedric Leonard.

Originally posted by spiritualarchitectSome Egyptian texts were also said to have had maps of Atlantis, including its round capital city. Athanasius Kircher’s 1665 map is based upon an older Egyptian version of the map, and it may show only the southern most island of Atlantis, as the two landmasses north of it should also have been above water with it.

Now you have completely departed from reality and occupy a very special place in a sparkly fantasyland.

Originally posted by spiritualarchitect
Manetho translated the Egyptian king lists in 250 BC. There is also the king-list at Abydos, the Palermo Stone and the Turin Papyrus. Manetho tells us that the first kings did not rule Egypt, but a foreign country in the west. Egypt was originally either a colony or a conquered nation.

Well? Go ahead and quote Manetho saying this, and not Leonard.

Originally posted by spiritualarchitectThe old Egyptian word for Cronos is Seb,

You mean the Greeks glommed onto Geb (his actual name, not "Seb,") and tried to make out that he was Cronos, another Titan from Greek mythology.

Originally posted by spiritualarchitectI have provided you a copy of a map found in Egypt by the Romans around 30 BC.

No, you have provided us with a pic of Kirchner's map and a couple of Youtube vids that make ridiculous, youtubey claims.

Harte

Originally posted by Mad Simian
reply to post by Harte

 

Well, if you know someplace online that could FULLY teach me both greek and ancient Egyptian for free, I'd love to take a crack at the thing. As it is, I'm relegated to limited sources such as Wikipedia and the like in any translation attempt I might make.

So, you would prefer to do your own translation, and simply disregard the work done by a century of linguists?

Good luck with that. It's not as if there some ancient Egyptian "Book of Mythology" or whatever that you could sit down and translate after learning the language!

Originally posted by Mad Simian**edit**Also, I'd have to find a copy of the T&Cs in greek to begin with. So far, I've only found bits and pieces of it this way online. If you don't mind me drawing on your experience in this area, have you found a copy of them in Greek online? Preferably as a free download and not from some professional site where you have to be a paying member of either the website itself or an archaeological-type organization.

Not being a Greek reader (LOL) it's not been a focus of mine.
However, here is Plato's Timaeus in Greek. Don't know if it's the same Greek Plato used. Languages change.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Dang it Harte how'd you find that T & C in ancient Greek I looked all over for it.....: ]

Quote for the day

sparkly fantasyland.

reply to post by Harte


Why not? It's always fun to learn something new and, to be honest, I have a natural aptitude with languages. Although, it will likely take me some time to do so; life, family, earning a living and such tends to take up a lot of time for 'armchair archaeologists' such as me. Also, the entire point of this site is to "deny ignorance" so what better way to do so than to study something for yourself.

BTW, thanks for the links.

**edit**Oops! I sometimes confuse Hanslune and Harte. Thanks to both of you for the links.

Originally posted by Hanslune
Dang it Harte how'd you find that T & C in ancient Greek I looked all over for it.....: ]

Quote for the day

sparkly fantasyland.

My Google Fu is stronger than your Bing Fu.

Originally posted by Mad Simian
Why not? It's always fun to learn something new and, to be honest, I have a natural aptitude with languages.

Why not? I sort of have my hands full, and I'm not interested enough to overcome my innate laziness. Also, I wouldn't say I had a natural aptitude.
Here at ATS in the past, links were posted to online sites where you could learn hieroglyphics. IIRC, it was Byrd that posted them.

Let me know if you ever actually find anything.

Harte

EDIT: Are you a native Okie? I am.
H.

Originally posted by Mad Simian


**edit**Oops! I sometimes confuse Hanslune and Harte. Thanks to both of you for the links.

Hey Mad Simian

Its easy to tell us apart; Harte is the smart ugly guy and I'm the good looking one

Originally posted by Harte

EDIT: Are you a native Okie? I am.
H.

Oh no, I spend far to much time at Ft Sill to like OK but my father was born an Okie

reply to post by Harte


I doubt it will bear any fruit but the scientific method dictates that I will have to find a lot of wrong answers before I can end up at the right one.

Yes, I was born and still live in Oklahoma.

To Hanslune-That's all fine and good(the difference between you and Harte) but you both have usernames that start with H and tend to make similar posts(as two of the resident experts and ignorance deniers for the 'Lost and Ancient Civs' board here). Also, both of you(and don't take this as an insult) tend to have an 'I've been putting up with this ignorant bs for far too long and my patience has worn thin trying to educate these people' attitude. Which is completely understandlable but try not to end up as cynics in the process, ok?

Originally posted by Mad Simian
reply to post by Harte

 

I doubt it will bear any fruit but the scientific method dictates that I will have to find a lot of wrong answers before I can end up at the right one.

Yes, I was born and still live in Oklahoma.

To Hanslune-That's all fine and good(the difference between you and Harte) but you both have usernames that start with H and tend to make similar posts(as two of the resident experts and ignorance deniers for the 'Lost and Ancient Civs' board here). Also, both of you(and don't take this as an insult) tend to have an 'I've been putting up with this ignorant bs for far too long and my patience has worn thin trying to educate these people' attitude. Which is completely understandlable but try not to end up as cynics in the process, ok?

I'm no cynic, generally. But really, most of the crap posted here about antiquity is so freaking cheesy that it's not even funny, much less interesting.

People will believe anything. Anything they wish were true. But they won't believe me or Hans because the scenario of reality is not one that they desire - as if it's too hard for them to learn the facts for themselves, so they take the easy and lazy (and, let me tell you, I am well acquainted with laziness!) path and, given all the flapdoodle they can absorb, move forward pretending that they know some "big secret" that only the wise are in on.

Harte

Originally posted by Mad Simian
Also, both of you(and don't take this as an insult) tend to have an 'I've been putting up with this ignorant bs for far too long and my patience has worn thin trying to educate these people' attitude. Which is completely understandlable but try not to end up as cynics in the process, ok?

Sorry too late - I became cynical on December 14th 2007 when I saw a 112th posting about the Piri Reis map which claimed it 'shows Antarctica' within the confines of one year (on multiple boards). Fortunately this same declaration has now fallen to only 60-70 times a year now.

reply to post by Hanslune

Fortunately this same declaration has now fallen to only 60-70 times a year now.

See, you aren't a cynic yet. You found a silver lining in your misery. Tarnished silver, maybe, but silver nonetheless.

Yes! Atlantis has been found!

There are many evidences for this, I hope the mainstream community will pick up on everything.