New report questions Israel's claim of "divine right"

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posted on May, 9 2013 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter


And it is where the Temple must be rebuilt to accommodate the AC trying to claim the throne of God as well as the last battle of Armageddon .

So are you in favor of accommodating this AC character?




posted on May, 9 2013 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by GargIndia
 


Jesus is the only way to God . The divine right to such a barren land is not a glorious thing except that God gave it to them and Jesus will come back there .


Jesus is not the only way !

By his own admission, there are others who find the way without Jesus.



Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

-- Matthew 7:14



However, as Jesus says, "few there be that find it" on their own. But it can be done, had has been done by a few.

You take your chances without Jesus, but with Jesus you're on the sure path.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by UnderGetty
 

Palestine has been the territory of Israel since they entered Canaan.
Minus 1800 years when they didn't, and considering the modern so-called state calling itself Israel as if it was somehow the exact same thing as the fabled Israel of yore, and considering Egyptian and Assyrian, and Babylonian and Persian, and Greek and Roman, rule as also including somehow a state status, and considering that the book describing this assumed state is not just lying to defend a vested interest in there even ever having been a such thing as a kingdom of Israel.
It would have been necessary documentation to present to the current ruling empire that they deserved to have their own government officials over that territory, to get their cut of tax revenues or whatever.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 04:59 PM
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You all so far away from interpret the writings, and their true literal meaning and purpose, you are all the product of your ignorance, so you deserve all to stay in the dark, since you have eyes but you fail to see, you have ears but you don't ear, you have voice but you only say nonsenses.


CHA



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 05:24 PM
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I don't think it's necessary to invoke religion as a justification for a Jewish state.

Judaism in it's classical, 1st millennium formulation, functioned more as an all encompassing identity, encompassing both ethnicity and religion. For over 2 millennia, the Jewish people, were prevented by whatever power ruling over Palestine at the time from returning to that land. Although the first stirrings of Zionism began from the religious in the Eastern Ukraine and Russia, it really didn't pick up steam (or manage to persuade the powers that be) until it fructified into a secular political movement. This occurred towards the end of 19th century - restrictions were lifted primarily due to the decreasing relevance of religious dogma in political affairs.

Another relevant issue (of course, not appreciated by the majority of the Muslim world) but nevertheless a curious fact from the perspective of Britain, is reparation. In this day and age of ours, we are bending over backwards to make peace with the past: those who practiced a "heretical" religion of the past can freely practice their religion; woman have been rehabilitated and equal opportunity has become a treasured social doctrine; homosexuals are no longer excoriated, but rather, massive public relations campaigns have been started to change peoples opinions about it. In America, the topic of reparation for blacks has been debated for decades, and for a probably decent enough reason.

My question is: Aren't the Jews "owed" something by the Christian powers (the ancestors todays western countries) and the Muslim powers, who practically enslaved them for hundreds of years? The crimes are too many to enumerate here, but suffice to say, they are in a category similar to blacks in America.

The political restoration of the Jews to Palestine was symbolic act of reparation. It was an acknowledgement that the Jews had been mistreated for over a thousand years. Their right to a land of their own - the only land they as a people have ever identified with - would simply provide for them what has been granted to every other people.

Now, of course, the idea of a particular land for a particular people is something a classical liberal like Edmunde Burke would have understood, but in our post WWII day and age, most people, particularly those on the left, would prefer that we just jettison the entire idea of national identity. In such a scenario, all my talk about "returning the Jews to Palestine" strikes one as anochronistic - relevant to a different time and age.

In any case, I do not agree with these harsh acts of political estrangement by Steven Hawkings, and others towards Israel.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 05:40 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Originally posted by SimonPeter
Absolutely , God placed the importance on that land . And it is where the Temple must be rebuilt to accommodate the AC trying to claim the throne of God as well as the last battle of Armageddon .

The bible verse that supposedly states this is Daniel 9:

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Futurists claim that the last “week” of this is pushed into some fictitious future tribulation period where the antichrist; “shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease”.

In truth this entire section is talking about the “Messiah”, which is clearly identifiable by the preceding verses. What its actually saying is that: Christ shall come for 7 years at the end of the 70 weeks. He will confirm Gods covenant with the Jews that he would send the messiah to them through their blood line. 3 years into his ministry he would be “cut off” by being put to death. This act would overcome sin, and render any animal sacrifice from the temple worthless to God. Why would God still accept animals for forgiveness of sins, when his son was the prefect sacrifice and overcame ALL sin. This is called the “New Covenant”. In the New Testament this fact is shown by the Temple Veil tearing at the time of Christs death on the cross.

Because the Jews refused to accept the “Messiah” or the “New Covenant”, and continued the animal sacrifices in the Temple, God allowed the Romans to destroy the Temple, Jerusalem, and scatter the Jewish people. There is no intent by God mentioned in the bible to allow the Temple to EVER be rebuilt, and as a matter of fact even the ark has disappeared at this point. There is really nothing in this verse talking about the antichrist or a future peace treaty.

This is EXACTLY the misunderstood prophetic interpretation that the article is referring to.


Originally posted by SimonPeter
AC trying to claim the throne of God

Here you are referring to 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

...And here:
Daniel 7:


23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

This has already been fulfilled by the Pontifex Maximus or Holy Pontiff.
If you look at the duties of the Pontifex Maximus you'll see that he:
1)He came out of the beast of “iron” or Rome.
2)Spoke as God (Caesar) or the infallible Vicar of Christ (Pope) on Earth.
3)He was in charge of persecuting heretics, or non Catholic Christians under Jus Divinum.
4)He set the laws (Jus Divinum) and the Calendar (we still use a papal calendar).
5)The 1260 days roughly encompasses the “Dark Ages” from 538 AD until 1798 AD when Louis-Alexandre Berthier (under command of Napoleon) captured pope Pius VI and took him as prisoner to Valence, France where he died in captivity.

So the “throne” that is being talked about here is the seat of the head of the Christian Church, the Papacy.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 05:48 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Originally posted by Astrocyte
My question is: Aren't the Jews "owed" something by the Christian powers (the ancestors todays western countries) and the Muslim powers, who practically enslaved them for hundreds of years? The crimes are too many to enumerate here, but suffice to say, they are in a category similar to blacks in America.

What in the world would ever make you think that?
2000 years ago the Roman Empire removed the Jews from their land, and from my understanding of the Bible, it was done because they refused to follow Gods commands, accept the messiah, or the New Covenant. By contrast the American Indians were treated even worse, by direct ancestors, and this was only 200 years ago. I certainly don't see us making any “reparations” to the American Indians.

Think on why this is...

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


That is the Preterits view and I find some fault with that .
For one thing what happened to the Battle of Gog and Magog of Ezekiel 38 and before that the dried bones of Israel coming together in Ezekiel 37. Then Revelations tells us of the Mark of the Beasts . This would require a One World Government with a one world money that could not be handled . The Internet would have to be invented and propagated throughout the world to facilitate such .
Matthew 24 verse 14 states in Jesus words that this Gospel shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations and then the end shall come .
Verse 15 speaks of the Abomination of Desolation and explains the urgency of the situation down to verse 21 where Jesus states that there shall be great tribulation
Verse 29 thru 31 is th sign of the coming in the clouds which to me indicates mid trib harvest .
The other thing is that God put every thing into motion and planned for the Antichrist to have his time to deceive probably by bringing a false peace associated with Zechariah 14 . Israel suffers a loss of 2/3rds of Israel and half the city . How many would believe the AC to be Jesus saving Israel at the juncture ?
Then if all of the tribulation occured in 70 AD then the "rapture" has already come and gone and the thousand year reign has past and Revelations 20 verse 8 Armegeddon has already come and gone .

I do enjoy exchanging theories and verses . Thats how we learn .



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 07:00 PM
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thanks for posting



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


Contemplate this theory . The Jews would never share the Law with the Gentile and especially after coming back from Babylon with the Talmud . It seems to me that God made a people out of no people (the Gentiles) and to do this he offered the Gospel of Jesus to the Jew knowing what their responce would be effectivly bypassing them . I do believe that if the Jews did accept Jesus as their Messiah that they would never have shared the Gospel with the Gentile. Note Paul was the main source of the Gospel to the Gentile and was also a Roman citizen as well as Jew . This is evident by their clanish ways against the Gentile and tradition of the Talmud .



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 


Why would God give a piece of barren land to somebody as a 'divine right'.

Is there a shortage of 'fertile land' in his Creation?

You are no longer in the age of ignorance. You have science developed to such an extent that you can peep deep into distant galaxies. And you know there are uncountable stars and planets out there, many of which have plenty of 'fertile land' to support humans.

So get off this #ty piece of barren land. There is no point in creating rivers of blood over it.

And forget the scriptures. These are just words of men. Men suffers from ego and delusion. Words of men can never be truth unless spoken by pure souls. (And I say spoken, not written. Written word is often corrupted by the vain and the powerful).

So unless you hear from Jesus himself, words spoken by him directly, do not believe any scriptures.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 07:36 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Originally posted by SimonPeter
That is the Preterits view and I find some fault with that .

No, that is the Historicist view.
This is the view that all the original protestant reformers, and many others, believed.
The most extensive work ever done on the topic of Christian eschatology, The Horae Apocalypticae, supports Historicism.

Just like what you are professing (Futurism), Preterism is also a product of the Jesuit Order of the Roman Catholic Church. The Catholics themselves rejected Futurism in light of Preterism, because of the fact that Preterism is more in line with Historicism. The best lies are ones that contain the most truth, and as they know that Historicism is true, they now accept the school that is most similar while at the same time hiding their position in prophecy.


Originally posted by SimonPeter
Then Revelations tells us of the Mark of the Beasts . This would require a One World Government with a one world money that could not be handled .

First off, the bible never says that there will be a “one world” government, this is simply an assumption made by writers of Futurism. What they fail to realize is that we now have a one world system, without requiring a one world government. We have a World Currency, the US dollar, and we now have a World National ID system (UN ICAO biometric E-passports, National ID's, and the US Real ID). These biometric are in uniform format and usable globally. Good luck finding a country that has not become part of the “system” (National ID), because ATM there are only a couple that don't comply with it.

As a matter of fact, the Statue in Daniel is very clear that the “feet”, or present system, is made “partly of clay and partly of iron”, which means its NOT one government.


Originally posted by SimonPeter
Matthew 24 verse 14 states in Jesus words that this Gospel shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations and then the end shall come.

You need to read that again from the beginning, and look at what they are actually talking about.

The disciples were looking at the Temple, and asked Christ “when will this come to pass (the destruction of the temple), what is the sign of the “end of an age”, and when will you return.

The temple was destroyed in 70AD, the same time that the “end of the age of the Jews” occurred, and the beginning of the last age, the “age of the Church” began. So these things have already happened, and they started within a generation of the disciples lives, just as Christ stated. What he didn't explain is that the last age would last over 2000 years, and it would not be until the END of THAT AGE that he would return. So what Christ is saying has come to pass, but the disciples may not have understood the length of time that it would take to complete.


Originally posted by SimonPeter
How many would believe the AC to be Jesus saving Israel at the juncture?

The only reason that Israel is important in prophecy is because the Zionists have pushed Jesuit Futurism on the public as it supports their plans to rebuild Israel. Besides, as EVEYONE on the planet pretty much knows that version of prophecy, its not going to fool ANYONE. Heck, even very anti-christian people intimately know that style of interpretation, and I have debated with many on ATS over the years.


Originally posted by SimonPeter
Then if all of the tribulation occured in 70 AD then the "rapture" has already come and gone and the thousand year reign has past and Revelations 20 verse 8 Armegeddon has already come and gone .

It appears that you are still thinking that the “tribulation” is a 7 year period, but it's not. That is Futurism still rattling around inside your brain. There really is no “tribulation” as you know it, that's a Futurist construct used to make this future 7 year period. The “Age of the Church” is what you could actually call the “tribulation”, and its been ongoing for 2000 years and is not complete yet. I suspect that it will be complete before 3000, because that is the end of the 7th prophetic day. Sir Issac Newton came to the conclusion, also based on Historicism, that the actual “end” would not come prior to 2060.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by SimonPeter
It seems to me that God made a people out of no people (the Gentiles) and to do this he offered the Gospel of Jesus to the Jew knowing what their responce would be effectivly bypassing them . I do believe that if the Jews did accept Jesus as their Messiah that they would never have shared the Gospel with the Gentile.

If I understand what you are saying then it relates to this:

Romans 9:17
17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

The Jews were given 7 years to accept Christ, yet God knew that they would not only reject him, but fulfill his covenant by putting him to death. So its a matter of predestination. Anyway, during Christs ministry on earth, he stayed in Jewish areas preaching to mainly Jews, he didn't go out to the Gentiles at all. The disciples themselves waited for another 3 years, until the stoning of Steven, before they went out to the Gentiles. So this was all predestined by God, just as it was prophesied in Daniel.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by GargIndia
 

Actually its a very important piece of land because of its location. It sits at a crossroads between Europe, Africa, and the Persian Empire (whatever that area is called :lol
. If you wanted to go from Rome or Greece to Egypt, for example, you had to pass through there, or else cross the Mediterranean. That is why Armageddon has always been an area of constant wars.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 08:09 PM
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Thats because the jews aren't even the real jews, black people are the real jews, why do you think they were slaves? Twas another punishment, they were sent to babylon, and spread throughout the nations, yes its the blacks, do some research, those white jews, aren't even real jews, most of them were planted there from european countries, most of this "missing" data is blamed upon the evil catholic church.

^this bit of reality is coming at you from a Roman Not a black.

And yes even in revelations you see how they would wage wars agaisnt his set apart ones and kill many of them, i wonder who they have been killing all this time, lets see.. palestinians, arabs, syrians, and lets not forget obamas war on AFRICA. If you read the bible and do some research on the locations of cities and stuff it mentions, you will see the jews came out of AFRICA



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


You have succumbed to brainwashing.

The world would have today a worldwide railway if not due to machinations of the British empire.

You must understand the nature of Western powers. It is not easy as these actors stay hidden in the shadows and do not reveal themselves. They act through lies and deceit. There is no honor in them.

I am sorry I used strong words. But sometimes strong words are required.

Gautama Buddha saw a lot of unnecessary violence in the society and thats why he preached 'Ahinsa' (non-violence). As he saw clearly that violence does not lead to long lasting solutions to problem facing humanity.

The Palestine is NOT important to the West. Hell it is not even important to the Jews. But rivers of blood will still flow over it. Because of a poor prophet called Jesus who happened to be born in this area.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by GargIndia
 
I'm not sure why you would think that history is brainwashing:

Tel Megiddo
is a tell in modern Israel near Kibbutz Megiddo, about 30km south-east of Haifa, known for its historical, geographical, and theological importance, especially under its Greek name Armageddon. In ancient times Megiddo was an important city-state. Excavations have unearthed 26 layers of ruins, indicating a long period of settlement. Megiddo is strategically located at the head of a pass through the Carmel Ridge overlooking the Jezreel Valley from the west.

Megiddo was a site of great importance in the ancient world. It guarded the western branch of a narrow pass and trade route connecting Egypt and Assyria. Because of its strategic location, Megiddo was the site of several historical battles.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by GargIndia
The Palestine is NOT important to the West. Hell it is not even important to the Jews. But rivers of blood will still flow over it. Because of a poor prophet called Jesus who happened to be born in this area.

Ahm...
Jesus is not important to either the Jews or the Muslims, actually quite the contrary.
Mount Zion however is very important to both. The Temple mount is both the location of the old Jewish Temple, and now the 3rd most holy Muslim Site, the “Dome of the Rock Mosque”. Its believed by Muslims that Muhammad ascended into heaven from this site.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by GargIndia
 


Looking into space is fine but we can not for sure tell what we are looking at . Black holes is just a theory but you accept it as fact don't you . I have heard that maybe they have found a planet that could support life but how does that affect you ? The distances are so extreme at the speed of light it would take thousands of years to get from one star system to another . Then there is the fact that radiation , heat and cold no oxygen would forbid you from getting any distance at all even at light speed .
Science is changing daily with some very wild claims . DNA really messed in their mess kit . Then they make claims that a rock they found in Antarctica I believe IS from Mars. So we need to go there and spend another Trillion dollars. Even though it would be a one way trip at best .

The Quran says the Jews are to have the land also ..

If you had ever read the Bible you would have hit me with the prophet Elijah being taken up off the earth by a fiery Chariot of sorts .
So you really should read the Bible in earnest before commenting on it . Not just hunting points to argue.



posted on May, 9 2013 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


The Muslims first built a wooden Mosque on the Temple Mount to preserve the Temple Mount for the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple . Believe it or not the Quran states that it will remain Jewish land . But there is a resistance to oppose giving back the land officially .
Mohammed only dreamed that he stepped on the rock and ascended into heaven as I remember . I 'm not sure he ever ventured to Jeruselam





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