Supplements and You; To improve cognitive function Discussion

The old adage "There is a pill for everything" certainly seems to ring true these days, in a world that is increasingly fast paced and which demands even faster responses.

If you happen to find yourself in a drug store or any box store these days, the shelves always appear to be lined with row, upon row of bottled health, pain relief, sleep aid, etc etc...Something to further enhance our lives to meet the increasing demands of our lives.

How does one really juggle work, family, friends, hobbies, commitments and a rather infinite set of tasks that seem to demand our every waking moment, if not our sleeping ones as well. >

Well, hopefully I have set the stage for the discussion I hope to encourage, as not only do i wish to offer my own knowledge/experiences, but I am also seeking the same.

A little bit of context in relation to supplements and myself perhaps before we begin.

I am young professional, that currently works 5-6 days a week, 8-10 hours a day (or whenever it seems to demand ), whom also tries to maintain a level of health and fitness that is beyond the norm.

Presently, I am in the gym 5-6 days a week, doing early AM cardio 3 days a week and weight training every afternoon, with additional light cardio on top. I try to remain active on my off days heading up the cottage or helping friends/family with laborious activities when needed.

Now we come to the crux of the topic at hand; How does one maintain a high level of performance while putting ones body through such strenuous activities.

Before I get torn apart with, "Oh you dont know what work is sonny, in my day..." and so on, the term strenuous is a relative term to each individual and I can only tell you that I put every ounce of my energy to functioning at the highest level at both the gym, as well as the office.

This is were supplementation comes in and which has played a large part in my life.

I take supplements such as vitamins, protein powders, amino acids, supplements for joints, for physical performance ( in the gym ) and so on. Presently most of my supplementation, in conjunction with a very, very......clean diet has kept me relatively healthy and happy.

Here comes my personal interest in starting this thread today and I apologize if you thought the preamble was a bit lengthy before i got to my point, but in any case; I feel that I have accomplished what i want physically, but now i crave the same mentally.

I have taken some keen interests in supplementation that will enhance my mental performance not only for work, but other mental tasks, whether it be learning a new language or being extra sharp when reviewing a project or closing a deal.

We have all seen stories/controversies over supplementation with respect to students at ivy league schools and even in secondary institutions, utilizing products to give them that edge to make the grade or propel them to peak performance.

I am not after some "limitless" pill, as popularly portrayed in the movies, no I am after the real deal, whether it be a particular fruit/food or a commercially available product.

There is a lot of anecdotal or "bro-science" ( ) out there, that all claim the advantages of using X, Y and Z, but I require more then the advice from some arm chair warriors spouting questionable information. Therefore I have turned to ATS for information. Grant it, there will likely be a lot of questionable information or some "bro-science", but the statement which is almost becoming cliche, "There are a lot of very smart people on ATS" continues to come to my mind.

In particular Heff, whom i know is very business savvy and full of information pertaining to cognitive/psychological function. I hope to attract him to thread at some point.

Feel free to offer advice, information or a slap of reality if you deem it necessary, but I look forward to enjoying a conversation none the less.

I have choose this forum due to the fact that the nature of bottled remedies and big pharma have always been controversial, poignant and conspiratorial topic.

The science of nootropics is pretty interesting. I'm not sure if those compounds violate the T&C though. Many are by prescription only, and most aren't FDA approved in the USA.

If you're just looking for flowers, plants and foods that can make you a mental juggernaut -- I'd be all ears as to what other members have to say!

reply to post by MystikMushroom


Hey thanks for the post. Yes, Nootropic's was one of the first things I started researching into.

I do not believe it would be against T&C to discuss, as they are not inherently an illicit substance.

Here is a little wiki excerpt for those interesting in a broader definition:

Nootropics (pron.: /noʊ.əˈtrɒpɨks/ noh-ə-TROP-iks), also referred to as smart drugs, memory enhancers, neuro enhancers, cognitive enhancers, and intelligence enhancers, are drugs, supplements, nutraceuticals, and functional foods that purportedly improve mental functions such as cognition, memory, intelligence, motivation, attention, and concentration.[1][2] The word nootropic was coined in 1972 by the Romanian Dr. Corneliu E. Giurgea,[3][4] derived from the Greek words νους nous, or "mind," and τρέπειν trepein meaning "to bend/turn". Nootropics are thought to work by altering the availability of the brain's supply of neurochemicals (neurotransmitters, enzymes, and hormones), by improving the brain's oxygen supply, or by stimulating nerve growth.

We can wait to see if a MOD deems it inappropriate.

It would be a logical approach to me. You brain requires/demands X, Y and Z compound to function properly, so an abundance of said compound would logically maintain that level at the very least.

reply to post by MDDoxs


There are many resources on the net for Nootropics.

They each seem to work on different functions and pathways.

While I've read a lot on the subject, I'm still skeptical about the safety or effectiveness of some of these drugs.

The most popular seem to be:

Piracetam (Not sold in the US.)
Citicoline
Tyrosine
Selegiline

And a handful of others.

Personally, I think sleep is likely the most effective mental performance enhancer.

To each his own. I'd proceed with caution.

Caffeine has always worked well for me to stay focused and sharp. If you don't want to take it in liquid form buy it in pill form. Just don't go Jessie Spano.

Along with that I have honestly had a lot of success with Animal Paks. Always made me energetic and alert.

reply to post by MDDoxs


Hello MDDoxs,

It sounds to me like you are really too young to be concerned about the problems that most herbal formulae are prescribed for; usually these things are prescribed for deficiencies and it doesn't sound like you have one.

When a man is having issues with stamina and cognition, both are usually related to a deficiency of qi (usually yang for men) in the kidneys and usually an issue with overly hot qi from the liver rising up where it causes cognitive issues. Both are treated by nourishing those organs in particular ways, and one would want to visit their local accupuncturist for a treatment plan.

But that's for old guys.

Fact is, if you want to get a head start on keeping those systems healthy you might drop 2 or 3 days at the gym and find a good Chinese qigong or martial arts teacher, I guarantee that will get you further than supplements. The idea is to start a savings account now that you can bank on in middle age; Chinese "cultural" arts can provide that.

Meanwhile it takes about 3 months to fully tune the average body in to gingko biloba, so you might get started on that; it's really good stuff.

Have fun.



ETA: I forgot to add that the crux of it is: Tonify the libido; tonify the mind. Tonify the mind; tonify the libido.

reply to post by loam


Hey loam, thanks for the reply, your input is always appreciated.

While I've read a lot on the subject, I'm still skeptical about the safety or effectiveness of some of these drugs.

My personal philosophy that substances that are or found naturally in the body either already or through consumption of everyday food should be fine in moderation.

An excess amount of water, one of the most abundant compounds in our body, will kill you

I just am looking for that edge, though I do not doubt i possess the ability already to accomplish what I desire, we have almost been conditioned to seek the quickest and most efficient paths to our goals.

To each his own. I'd proceed with caution.

Wise words indeed.

reply to post by Covertblack

Caffeine has always worked well for me to stay focused and sharp. If you don't want to take it in liquid form buy it in pill form. Just don't go Jessie Spano.

Along with that I have honestly had a lot of success with Animal Paks. Always made me energetic and alert.

Hey Covert thanks for stopping In, yes Caffeine is a staple for me, as I am sure it is for most.

I was thinking of perhaps a pill form of caffeine to provide a burst of stimulation, but I would dread the crash afterwards.

Animal Pak just had so many Pills, grant it i am almost up to that many in a single sitting anyways lol.

reply to post by MDDoxs


Totally agree about how many pills are in each pak, but they honestly keep me more focused than caffeine. I'm not sure which ingredients out of the hundred works but it sure does for me. Good luck with the search, I'm sure I will be following closely.

reply to post by Bybyots


Hello Bybyots, thank you for the reply and the insight.

It sounds to me like you are really too young to be concerned about the problems that most herbal formulae are prescribed for; usually these things are prescribed for deficiencies and it doesn't sound like you have one.

In my opinion, age should not be a constraint to ensure the optimization of your systems, whether physical or mental. I do not believe i suffer from any deficiency which has lead me to inquire about supplementation to assist with cognitive function, similar to that I did not suffer a deficiency from a regular diet while working out at the gym.

THe supplementation i use to enhance my physical aspect was born out of a need for optimizing and being the most efficient means to my physical goal. The same can be said for my mental one now.

Please drop as much wisdom on us as you can. Always appreciated.

Originally posted by Covertblack
reply to post by MDDoxs

 

Totally agree about how many pills are in each pak, but they honestly keep me more focused than caffeine. I'm not sure which ingredients out of the hundred works but it sure does for me. Good luck with the search, I'm sure I will be following closely.

Thank you very much. You are always welcome to contribute and I think you and many others have touched on a central focus that will be common in this thread: Different means, will work for different people or What works for one, wont necessarily work for another.

Ketosis.

A metabolic state that improves cognitive function. No supplements needed.

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd
Ketosis.

A metabolic state that improves cognitive function. No supplements needed.

Hey Devolution, so you are recommending depleting my glycogen stores to fuel my mental focus? Seems almost counter productive.

For those who dont know:

Ketosis (pron.: /kɨˈtoʊsɨs/) is a state of elevated levels of ketone bodies in the body.[1] It is almost always generalized throughout the body, with hyperketonemia, that is, an elevated level of ketone bodies in the blood. Ketone bodies are formed by ketogenesis when liver glycogen stores are depleted. The ketone bodies acetoacetate and β-hydroxybutyrate are used for energy.[2]

I wonder if that is why we are considered to be in a highly mentally focused states in the mornings. Of course a good night sleep doesn't hurt. Your body deplete its store of energy while fasting during sleep, so you wake up depleted for those who dont know.

Unfortunately, I am trying to balance both my physical and mental health, so an over use of that method might be counter productive to my goals. But thank you for the view point!

I can help some people with taking common supplements to bring you back up to your potential. If you exceed the potential of your mind it will become more disorientated though, taking too much or the wrong thing can cause long term problems, I can only address things as antidotes for problems that may occur in the chosen diet. These antidotes or companion foods or even supplements should not be over consumed either or other problems could occur. It's hard to make general "one size fits all" comments.

Want to grow more neurons or change the orientation of your thinking, it is all possible. You may turn into a Republican though

reply to post by MDDoxs


Using a ketogenic diet makes you more focused and slows thinking a bit but the thinking is usually more accurate. Not good for quick responses though. Adjusting the diet can keep glycogen stores from being depleted. It's not for everyone and it is a bitch to change over.

Originally posted by Covertblack
Caffeine has always worked well for me to stay focused and sharp. If you don't want to take it in liquid form buy it in pill form. Just don't go Jessie Spano.

Along with that I have honestly had a lot of success with Animal Paks. Always made me energetic and alert.

Are you talking about coffee or caffeinated beverages? Coffee has b-carbolines in it that help a person to think properly, caffeine being an adjuvant,

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by MDDoxs

 

Using a ketogenic diet makes you more focused and slows thinking a bit but the thinking is usually more accurate. Not good for quick responses though. Adjusting the diet can keep glycogen stores from being depleted. It's not for everyone and it is a bitch to change over.

Hey Rickymouse, thank you for sharing your knowledge and insight!

My own personal desire is to improve information absorption and retention. True caffeine will give me the focus to spend more time reviewing the material and perhaps a ketogenic diet would make me more porous to said information, but both certainly have both mental and physical draw backs.

I was hoping that consuming an abundance of X, Y or Z would stimulate the above characteristics i am after.

ETA: I would be glad to share my experiences with supplements for the body. Specifically related to weight lifting and muscle recovery.

The OP's motivation not withstanding, there is a seldom addressed issue on the subject that needs to be included. Never before has the human body/brain been subject to the horrors it is being exposed to: EMF's, ELF's, dust-chemical-grown food, GMO's, fluoride in ALL water, chlorimines, chlorine, and in some cases pharma drugs in water. Not to mention vaccines, pollutants in the air, toxic chemicals in the building materials, mercury in the mouth and everywhere else. Estrogen producing packaging. Add to that the horrific reality of the planet wide radiation situation. I'm not even going to go into the reality of the "education" system on the brains pathways and its ability to express consciousness.

Every aspect of the vehicle we use to express our consciousness is being bombarded with an unholy mix of ingredients to dumb us down. To suggest that supplementing to combat this nightmare is in some way foolish, or less then perfect, is rather naive. People really are not looking for an "edge" but simply trying to keep one's head above water in the reality that is our world. Even if you grew your own heirloom food to eat, you'd still be feeding those plants with fluoride ridden water. Our bodies are fighting a battle they cannot really win, a battle to express our true consciousness through it while it is being attacked.

To add iodine here, or glucosomine there, or filtered water here, or a nootropic there is simply working to get to a level where the system is not fighting so damn hard to express the true nature of one's consciousness.

Consider: What would your consciousness expression be like without the toxic cocktail of ingredients bashing you day and night? What is the new baseline of consciousness expression in a body?

reply to post by MDDoxs


I take a multimineral tablet. It helps a lot. It contains about a hundred fifty percent of the daily molybdenum requirement....in the form of sodium molybate.

For the blood to work right it has a molybdopterin that helps haul oxygen. This needs a molybdenum ion attached to it to help with oxygen delivery. If you are sick the body ups the sulfite levels to fight the fungus, this means there is less oxygen available which effects thinking. If you eat lots of fructose or drink alcohol, it turns into acetylaldehyde till it can be denatured to acetic acid and expelled. Molybdenum is used to convert this and is often lost in the urine. Meanwhile there is less oxygen available for the brain again. Xanthian oxidase is also reliant on molybdenum, that works with nitrogen conversion in the body. If you eat a lot of hot food (peppery) or lunchmeat with nitrates, it also effects oxygen to the brain. There is both good and bad to this. If you give your brain all the oxygen it needs you tend to think to much.

Molybdenum doesn't work alone, taking a little extra magnesium than is in my pill is necessary. About sixty six percent of the RDA is sufficient. This helps a person to process fat also. Remember to make sure to get adequate B vitamins for this, as the things start to work better, you burn up your stores. I take a bigger multivitamin once or twice a week. I eat quite a bit of meat though so I don't need that much supplementation of most b vitamins. The brain works better if it has oxygen. Fish helps to build neurons in the brain and evidently so does fasting. I don't know what they have in common though. Fish is also good for the thyroid

reply to post by crankyoldman


Hello Crankoldman, I appreciate your perspective and insight on the matters you have highlighted, regardless if I agree with them or not.

I am concerned at how pessimistic your outlook on our planet and our being (mental and/or physical) is and to claim naivety on my part is a bit reckless in my opinion. I do consider all the toxic effects in our world today, but to continually worry about them to be would be to encourage further self destruction.

Surely if you are concerned/aware of external effects of toxins, you must be aware that internal toxins of our own creation (e.g. pessimism, depression, negativity), is equally as harmful.

We are getting a bit intangible here for the focus of this thread.

I am sure you would agree that a positive outlook and trying to promote both physical and mental health to the best you can is far more advantageous that simply doing nothing....