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as for being convinced of God's existence, this thread was established in faith, I feel like His presence within my life is evidence enough.
Well yes, if you mean that I never get smarter regarding your own doctrine. I'll certainly pay attention to what I feel needs to be attended to.
When it gets overly complex I tend to opt out.
I guess I'm too simple. I'm a fool for God, if you wish to say so.
In case you missed this request at the bottom of the first page, backcase, I am putting it on the current page.
Originally posted by bb23108
Of course you are talking in your usual terms relative to the Creator-God idea - as that is what you love to argue against. But I thought the thread was mainly concerning obedience to God - not so much about one's own understanding of the Divine Reality.
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
I'm talking about the doctrine of the Biblical god as presented in the Bible.
We can let backcase decide on what the limits of his thread are.
Okay - and I was simply stating how an actual love relationship to God allows for true obedience. From there you implied something negative with your statement about my "screwball interpretations".
I really have no interest in your anti-Christian agenda, AfterInfinity, because you seem mainly out to get people for your own personal reasons. And when I questioned you about your version of reality, you wouldn't/couldn't answer my questions and never did respond to me. I thought that was the end of our discussions, but apparently not.
So backcase, are you inviting anyone to respond to this thread even if they do not believe in the Creator-God that most Christians believe in?
By the "presence of God", I do not mean occurrences or events only.
I mean living in God's presence and love. I suppose that explaining it would do not justice to how I actually feel.
I understand your viewpoint here. It is true that there is not necessarily very much empirical evidence in support of a higher power. And, despite the fact that the idea of a higher power may be fabricated by our own minds, that does not change the validity or practicality of the deeper philosophy embedded therein......
Your problem is that you are biased against faith- you see it only as a weakness/acceptance of irrationality, borne mostly from a person's denial and unwillingness to "face the facts" (without this belief, someone feels insecure about their life). This is true in many cases, I admit, and when faith is used simply as an excuse it can get ugly. However, there is still value to faith that you refuse to recognize. The willingness to believe something "irrational" is in fact an embrace of the things that we commonly consider to make us "human." If you read my last post, you would have seen what I said about the fact that faith does not just apply to God, but to all intangible concepts, from morality, to love, etc. Thus, faith is a necessary part to learning about any kind of spirituality.
I'd like you to imagine a world where the only mental device used is logic. Logic enables us to figure out problems about the physical world and what is evident through reason, though that is all. A world based entirely on logic would abandon any "human" aspects such as love and morality, leaving only a cold, computer-like world. Sure, there would probably be such things as laws and cooperation, but these things would be there only because they provide a great survival advantage, not because we could actually consider them "good." Do you see what I'm saying? Faith is necessary to allow us to connect to that which transcends us... and even if "that which transcends us" is not provable, that does not mean it is "irrational" to believe in these things... in fact, if faith is performed in a healthy way, the opposite is actually so.
I did not speak anything of the Christian God, in fact I designed my post so it could be applied to any higher concept. And though I do think the philosophy embedded within Christianity (particularly Jesus' teachings) is valuable, I do recognize the fact that the religion is flawed, or at least many peoples' practicing of this religion. That said, for the sake of debate, I will defend the Christian God...
Why would God demand worship? Well, considering that he is pretty much the source of all that exists, can view reality through the context of eternity, and supposedly has unlimited understanding... it does not seem that unreasonable to worship him.
To God, though, worship does not mean bowing down to him for his own ego gratification... it means joining him in a relationship that has the aim of mutual understanding. God also does not demand worship- free will is allowed to humans and so you have that choice... even if choosing against following him is against your best interest.
Forbid all other idols? Note that in the Christian religion, God does not forbid all *other* idols, he forbids idols period... including idols of himself. This is simply because items of the world cannot portray God in an accurate way. There is no problem with God's ego here- he is simply steering you away from worldliness.
Why have a Sabbath? Though God clearly is involved, it isn't so much a day for "worshiping" God as a slave might be forced to worship a king, but instead a day for rest, understanding, and appreciation. Is that so bad?
While I can barely grasp what you are saying,
I will respond to the best of my ability.
If I do not know God,
I do not fear,
God knows me.
Call it "defaulting",
call it what you wish.
But God sees me for who I am and knows my heart is full of love.