The False Flag Paradigm: My Thoughts

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posted on May, 6 2013 @ 03:37 PM
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I believe you are correct when you say we have been infiltrated on both sides. I feel I have also witnessed similar things happening on ATS and the like. "Poison the well", as you put it.

I might have my reasons why I believe in a NWO conspiracy. Why I believe that everything is most likely a false flag, but I definitely don't try to make everyone else believe what I do. It doesn't matter to me if you believe what I believe. I think that is the main purpose of the infiltrator, to push their ideas on other people.

It does make the whole of the group look idiotic. Ohh, and it's working perfectly, I should add.




posted on May, 6 2013 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by Druid42
So ya want to get inside my head, well ok. Put on your tin foil hat, and hang on.......

It's people thinking for themselves. It's distrust of government.

It's not believing anything that comes across the old boob-tube. Try not watching TV for a week, and read a book or two or four during the interim, then turn your TV back on and all the propaganda suddenly smacks you right in the face. Eat this, watch that, but our product.


I have not turned my television on in about 9 months. I stream the 3 shows I watch online and that is all of the media I expose myself to, aside from the Associated Press raw feed from time to time, the occasional link jump to a news site, and what I am exposed to via moderating here.



Originally posted by Druid42

TPTB are trying to control us, with all their failed solutions and worthless ideas, and no concern is given to the pile of debt we are leaving to our progeny.

There's no accountability in gubberment anymore, just a free meal ticket to further their agenda, with no concern for our rights and Constitution.

To uphold the Constitution? Not anymore. To protect the Citizens? Not at the expense of our freedoms. It's a firm line drawn in the dirt, the same dirt that belongs to us because our forefathers fought for it, and spilled their blood on it, so we could be free.


I take no issue with any of this at all, but might have a different notion of what needs to be done. Rather than seeking an uprising or engaging in hyperbolic reaction, I tend to think that the system can be changed using the methods afforded to use by the Framers and by current realities - voting and the tactics of striking, both in terms of employment and economically. I think we tend to give the government too much credit by thinking of them as some giant beast that cannot be contained. We do outnumber them millions to one.


Originally posted by Druid42

With all the recent tragedies, going back to 911, our government has failed us. They are not protecting us anymore, not with children being murdered and marathon supporters being killed and wounded. Their policies simply do not work.

We have given up enough freedoms for our government's inability to protect us. What do they want, complete control? Every failure on their behalf leads to another page being ripped from the Constitution, and there is still no certainty for our future safety.

They distract us from seeing the truth. They have only their taxpayer funded salaries, and their own agendas with corporate America, feeding their greed. The welfare of the American people has been long forgotten. It's no longer about life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. It's all about money.

So the next time I see blaring inconsistencies in the MSM, being reported to us, I'll ask all of you reading to think of what's the next freedom to fly out the _ Patdowns of seniors and children at airports? Done that. More worthless gun control laws? How about a dry run in a Martial Law exercise?

How many more rights can we afford to lose? Only you can answer that, my friends.


Again, I empathize and agree with the basic thoughts presented here... though none of this validates any false flag beliefs at all. It simply explains the angst most of us feel today. Sure, the system is corrupt - but that doesn't mean that we can just hang any supposition or theory at their feet and be justified or correct in doing so.

You have kind of tabled one of the things that has really bothered me during this period... the constant referral to the news as if it were somehow official. Just because some network broadcasts something doesn't make it official at all. Your daily paper probably devotes an entire column, daily, to retractions. Now if you want to argue that the art of journalism has died and lost all credibility? I will cheer you on and star all of your posts. But to equate what Brian Williams says each night as being official in any regard? It's just not correct at all.

As far as the tragedies go? if I have a neighbor who beats his wife and I decide that I'm going to call 911 on him the next time I hear her screaming... all I need to is wait for it to happen. I don't have to break into his house, beat his wife into a coma, and then try to frame him for it. I don't have to spend weeks making a CGI movie of him doing so to use as evidence. All I need to do is sit back and wait. If I don't want to wait, I can use propaganda to push things forward... drop a word in his ear and make it happen.

That is to say, we're a violent people. The government doesn't have to fake mass murders... we do those just fine on our own. They might be deliberately creating an atmosphere that is conducive to such things. But to take the risks and waste the resources to fake it? And to do so every few months, as some here believe? Totally infeasible and impractical.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by Druid42


So the next time I see blaring inconsistencies in the MSM, being reported to us, I'll ask all of you reading to think of what's the next freedom to fly out the _ Patdowns of seniors and children at airports? Done that. More worthless gun control laws? How about a dry run in a Martial Law exercise?

How many more rights can we afford to lose? Only you can answer that, my friends.


 


In the case of Boston, where innocent people were accused of being complacent in a horrendous crime, where crowd sourcing was pointing out innocent people and labelling them enemies of the people, inspiring vigilante justice, I suppose the question is:

How many rights are we willing to take away from regular people because we think we know it all?




posted on May, 6 2013 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide


I take no issue with any of this at all, but might have a different notion of what needs to be done. Rather than seeking an uprising or engaging in hyperbolic reaction, I tend to think that the system can be changed using the methods afforded to use by the Framers and by current realities - voting and the tactics of striking, both in terms of employment and economically. I think we tend to give the government too much credit by thinking of them as some giant beast that cannot be contained. We do outnumber them millions to one.


But how do you provide a unified voice to all of these people? Everytime a people seem fed up with the government enough to do something, they are scared back into place by some incident. What if it turns out that the candidates are pre picked to back the same interests. How then will voting help?

This is exactly what the governments wants. They control the elections, the media that gets the candidates out to the people, so they are more than happy to tell you to continue to work within the system they control.

I am not advocating violence, I am merely stating that we should be willing to look at other options than to just keep voting or having a strike, and you shouldn't be so willing to dismiss the possible effectiveness of alternative ways to change our system.




Again, I empathize and agree with the basic thoughts presented here... though none of this validates any false flag beliefs at all. It simply explains the angst most of us feel today. Sure, the system is corrupt - but that doesn't mean that we can just hang any supposition or theory at their feet and be justified or correct in doing so.


You are correct in this. But at the same time we can't write off these suggestions as impossible,especially when you are admitting there is rampant lying and corruption.




You have kind of tabled one of the things that has really bothered me during this period... the constant referral to the news as if it were somehow official. Just because some network broadcasts something doesn't make it official at all. Your daily paper probably devotes an entire column, daily, to retractions. Now if you want to argue that the art of journalism has died and lost all credibility? I will cheer you on and star all of your posts. But to equate what Brian Williams says each night as being official in any regard? It's just not correct at all.


This is something that has always bothered me. When you talk to some people about 9-11, and say I have questions with the official story, they say "there is no official story" That seems to be along the lines of what you are saying.

Well isn't this a problem in its own right. Is it not the governments job to keep the citizens safe? And when they fail, should they not investigate to see why they failed and tell us those reasons? If there is no Official story, there should be investigations until there is one.

If there is some other group you think has the OS, could you tell me who it is?
The mainstream media is the voice for those stories today. We the normal people do not get to interview politicians and law enforcement, so we rely on the people that do have access to inform us of what happened.

When you say they are not the tellers of the official story, you allow them to change the narrative as they see fit, with no accountability.




That is to say, we're a violent people. The government doesn't have to fake mass murders... we do those just fine on our own. They might be deliberately creating an atmosphere that is conducive to such things. But to take the risks and waste the resources to fake it? And to do so every few months, as some here believe


Well thats kind of splitting hairs isn't it? I for one don't care between the difference between these two scenarios; the government itself attacked its own people to further its agenda, or the government knew an attack was imminent and allowed it to happen to further its goals.

If you believe its the latter occurring, why get so upset at people saying false flag? Although perhaps not semantically correct, both theories are showing the government responsible for innocent deaths.

And to say well people are just evil so thats what happens is to me the exact same thing you are criticizing people for, except instead of saying the government with always act to be evil, you are saying it will always be an evil person. This seems to be the absolutism mindset you are criticizing in the OP.

Lastly, its funny you should mention just allowing a mass murder/terrorist to act, turns out that a majority of the terrorists plots our government has foiled were in fact setup by us. So it doesn't seem to be that far of a stretch to just let one of the terrorist the CIA has setup to just succeed.



www.youtube.com...



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by boncho


In the case of Boston, where innocent people were accused of being complacent in a horrendous crime, where crowd sourcing was pointing out innocent people and labelling them enemies of the people, inspiring vigilante justice, I suppose the question is:

How many rights are we willing to take away from regular people because we think we know it all?



Agreed, that is definitely uncalled for behavior.

Seeing as how you think that accusing people and inciting vigilante justice without due process is appalling, I would assume you would then be interested in protecting the rights of those accused by our government in the incident.

You are no doubt upset at the denying of his rights of having council, and the almost unanimous public outcry for his blood.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 





Thus, the kind of circular rhetoric that used to be confined to the 9/11 forum, the chemtrail forum, and arguments about whether or not the lunar landings were faked, suddenly spilled over into the new forums, the current event forums, the general conspiracies forums, and even the light hearted “off topic” areas of the boards.


Do you mean that across all those subjects people started to see things in a way that you don't agree with?

Maybe it is really true that events are being faked and more and more people are catching on.

I don't think you need to analyze this "disease" and come up with all sorts of reasons, it just is what it is.

Basically you wrote a rant against a group of people with a dissenting opinion.

It's just obvious that too many things just don't add up with these events, and if others don't see it I'm surely not going to write a 6-page rant about them, looking at "psychological and cultural causes" of why they don't see it.

You also believe the 911 official story for the most part, right?

What do you intend to accomplish with this thread?

The problem is the amount of inconsistencies and anamolies in these events, not the people pointing them out.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by DaveStinger
 


Funny you put the word "disease" in quotations and yet it appears nowhere in my OP, nor anywhere on the first page for that matter. The first of two pages, not six.

This is exactly the kind of hyperbole and factual inaccuracies I was addressing in my OP - a fact that apparently missed at least one reader.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by DaveStinger
 


Funny you put the word "disease" in quotations and yet it appears nowhere in my OP, nor anywhere on the first page for that matter. The first of two pages, not six.

This is exactly the kind of hyperbole and factual inaccuracies I was addressing in my OP - a fact that apparently missed at least one reader.




It's called sarcasm, Hefficide, you speak of this phenomon that is the subject of your rant, as if it were a disease.

I don't find your response to be very relevant to what I said.

Btw,




Funny you put the word "disease" in quotations and yet it appears nowhere in my OP, nor anywhere on the first page for that matter.


Funny indead.......are you aware Hefficide, that when people use quotation marks, they often mean that the text between them is not meant to be taken literally?



edit on 6-5-2013 by DaveStinger because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 





My initial belief was that our community has been infiltrated by agent provocateurs.

People sent here to plant seeds of dissent.

A psychological operation with military or Federal backing. This is not a new way of dealing with opposition to authority at all nor is it one that is uncommon today. Law enforcement will use this trick to catch criminal groups. The Occupy movement was also infiltrated in a similar way.

If those in power feel threatened by a community they simply create lies that will either push the community over the line, giving the authorities an excuse to attack – or that will serve to sway popular opinion against said community.


Hey, listen, Heff, not trying to be a dick, but I could not help but notice that your initial suspicion seems to have been..

...a false flag attack or 'psy-op'?

I mean, you would be in a good position to know, right? How often does that sort of thing happen in your opinion? Is there a particular case on ATS that you feel would be a good example of this? By 'they' you obviously mean the federal government?

I suppose the question that I am getting at is if there is any way to discuss this stuff without it getting all recursive and getting the tar-baby all over ourselves?




It is not a complicated thing at all to send in a few well scripted players to stir a pot and poison a well. This is how I perceive(d) a few of those I have encountered over the past 6, or so, months. This is a position I still firmly believe – as I have watched a small number of people show up, post on just ONE issue, very, very vocally, using the machinations I described above, and successfully create memes within the community that persist to this day.


What you have suggested is that 'they' have mastered the ability to activate tipping points at will. I don't believe that. I think that 'they' are really interested in getting a handle on that; but they haven't. They cannot bottle and synthesize it; despite their best efforts.

I think that there is more value and mileage to be had by keeping the focus on ourselves and continually asking how participating, or not participating in the narrative keeps driving it in loops.

Do you see no correlation to the Anarchist Bombings from 100 years ago that I posted about.

Thanks in advance; just trying to push things forward, I know I'm being selfish, I just have points that I think are important that need to be addressed.

edit on 6-5-2013 by Bybyots because:




posted on May, 6 2013 @ 05:59 PM
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I really must compliment you on some of the best writing I have ever had the pleasure of reading. Your posts are always well written and thought out. I wish I had this ability.

Having stated this, I believe that everything happens for a reason. I believe the "love of money," is the root of all evil. I believe the killing of another human being is the ultimate evil, as we are all created in the, "image of God." So, remaining consistent, if evil happens, follow the money. There, you will find the real perpetrators.

We have become a one world state, afraid of an unseen terrorist. That terrorist, is as Ike so aptly put it, the "military-industrial complex." There is no question who funded and supported the puppet governments of Pakistan/Afghanistan/Iraq/Iran/Argentina/Cuba/Germany/Nicaragua/Venezuela/Chile. Not to mention, the base funding for Al-Quaeda. Our dear, beloved CIA...

Make no mistake, cattle need to be herded and controlled...We have been sold on the idea we need guns and drugs in order to remain healthy and alive...and we bought this idea from some of the craziest, sickest bastards ever spawned here on Earth...
edit on 6-5-2013 by totallackey because: further content



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 





It is not a complicated thing at all to send in a few well scripted players to stir a pot and poison a well. This is how I perceive(d) a few of those I have encountered over the past 6, or so, months. This is a position I still firmly believe – as I have watched a small number of people show up, post on just ONE issue, very, very vocally, using the machinations I described above, and successfully create memes within the community that persist to this day.


You mean like....hiring actors?




As odd as it may sound, I have spent the last couple of weeks of my life truly trying to empathize with the false flag crowd.


That is really odd Heff.....empathize with those subhumans? Tsk tsk, what were you thinking.......
edit on 6-5-2013 by DaveStinger because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 06:18 PM
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ATS at one time might have been a community with the common goal of denying ignorance; but that was long ago. Now there is such a diverse membership with so many agendas, political affiliations, axes to grind, paranoia, and out right psychopaths as members, that the "community" no longer exists and like Humpty Dumpty, can never be restored. The we/they attitude is as entrenched here as in the population at large. The "people like you" meme is now the operating principal with everyone in rhetorical competition.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by olaru12
 





The "people like you" meme is now the operating principal with everyone in rhetorical competition.


Well said.

This thread is a prime example.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 

Hi Heff
IMHO you are totally incorrect regarding some posters, maybe most posters.

In order to factfind at ATS, a debate has to start somewhere.
This requires the OP to make a statement, its required sometimes I think even.

Through the process of debate at ATS facts are collected
*USER GENERATED CONTENT*

Readers read it
MILLIONS of readers read this site and then decide for them selves what to think and feel and do from the information they recieve here

In short in defence and attack of a OP's position intellectual due diligence is commited.

Now I realize that ever since the Stalinists and the NAZIS ( 96 percent Christians in 1936, less than that nazi I'll bet ) determined that questioning the state is a form of insanity, and that being sent to a gulag is the best cure for this type of social abberation, the thing is however:
this is a CONSPIRACY SITE!!!

Perhaps people who don't like conspiracies and the investigations inherantly required therin so the process of DEMOCRACY has the required actual 5th ESTATE necessary to function in the real world should maybe just stick to watching TV and reading news papers...
...without guns or pens....or steakknives.. (or eventually their children which apparantly belong to the state )

for them:
Possibly someone should invent
the COMPLACENCY SITE.


Thank you for taking the time to read this
and have a nice day


edit on 6-5-2013 by Danbones because:
"Pres. Obama Tells Students to Reject Voices Warning of Tyranny Government at OSU graduation" ...LOL... I had to sneak back and edit this in www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 6-5-2013 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by Danbones
 


Heff, and his OP is the only reason, I quite posting on ATS, There is is no real political debate when everyone is shouting that every new story is a false flag. ATS is not the only forum I'm a member of. I can get my opinions expressed in other places..

Des
edit on 6-5-2013 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2013 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 




Just because some network broadcasts something doesn't make it official at all.


You're right, but anyone hearing or reading it makes it real. They tell their friends, they tell their friends, and the point is lost in disinformation, not necessarily by MSM, but the dissemination of ordinary people.

That's why the meme pops up at every event. We live our normal lives, expecting them to remain as such, and have no warning when a surrealistic event occurs. Every "labeled" false flag is a severely abnormal event, that gets twisted by MSM reporting, ever since 911. Conflicting stories.

The false flag meme thrives on such very nutrients, propagating further into the human psyche.

I wonder.....

If the MSM could get a story straight, with no conflicts in reporting, would the false flag meme die?

Of course, I'll offer a shameless plug to the official Boston False Flag Debate. Please add a Star to the appropriate person, pending on your viewpoint.



posted on May, 7 2013 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 
This is my first link I hope it works.............but anywho I read your post and was reminded of a song by the Moody Blues.......Nights in White Satin, where at the end of the song it says ........but we decide which is right, and which is an illusion? It doesn't say but I decide which is right. Just some thoughts.

edit on 7-5-2013 by Tarzan the apeman. because: Okay link didnt work.................have to work on that.



posted on May, 7 2013 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by Tarzan the apeman.
 


Great thought and classic song!



posted on May, 7 2013 @ 05:50 PM
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Project Gladio is another proof that our government has a history of conducting False Flag violence. (I've read the FOIA documents describing the mission and tactics, as well as more widely available historical news articles.)

I think it's more human nature to WANT to dismiss these as outlier coincidences,...

...But, some tragic events are orchestrated for political gain... as history shows time and time again.

The trick is examining all the available facts, beyond the official story the mainstream globalist media is allowed to preach. That means filtering through a bunch of Bull rumors to find verifiable evidence and logical arguments to come to a truer version of what happened in each case.

The ability to be lazy by receive a download of the news on your couch, just like the ability to be lazy by dismissing every tragic event as false flag are exercises in sheeple stupidity. Arriving at the facts and truth take work and critical thinking. Not everyone's up for it. But some of us have to do it.
edit on 7-5-2013 by twoandthree because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2013 @ 07:45 PM
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I think a lot of this assertion of false flag, is in essence, denial. More and more frequent random acts of extreme violence,iIs not a reality that sits well with most people, so they say, "That's not what this is. It's the government messing with us.". It makes them feel better about the direction things are taking. They figure if it's only the government, maybe there's hope. We can overthrow them, start a new one and things will be great. The idea; that civilization it's self is failing, all agreed upon social contracts and codes of conduct are falling apart, irrational behavior with out regard for life is becoming the new norm, is not one that most want to latch onto real quick.





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