The False Flag Paradigm: My Thoughts

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posted on May, 5 2013 @ 11:38 PM
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The False Flag Paradigm



Hi again ATS,

Like many of you, I have watched an interesting development over the past six or seven months. A cultural shift within our community that has come to dominate much of the discussion on not just this site, but the Internet at large. It is a dialogue that used to be only part of certain discussions which has bled over into just about every subject that we deal with her.

Of course I am speaking about the predisposition to see nearly every news worthy event as a “false flag.

For those who might not be fully familiar with what the phrase “false flag” means, I offer this snippet from Wikipedia:


False flag (or black flag) describes covert military or paramilitary operations designed to deceive in such a way that the operations appear as though they are being carried out by other entities, groups or nations than those who actually planned and executed them. Operations carried during peace-time by civilian organisations (sic), as well as covert government agencies, may by extension be called false flag operations if they seek to hide the real organisation behind an operation.
The name "false flag" has its origins in naval warfare where the use of a flag other than the belligerent's true battle flag as a ruse de guerre, before engaging an enemy, has long been acceptable. Such operations are also acceptable in certain circumstances in land warfare, to deceive enemies in similar ways providing that the deception is not perfidious and all such deceptions are discarded before opening fire upon the enemy.

Source

For awhile I personally suffered from a visceral reaction to these ideas and the people who seek to further them. Having been involved in the discussion of September 11, 2001 for a number of years I was used to being exposed to some very outlandish beliefs. But to see it happening on such a large scale really did take me aback. I found myself in a state of feeling deep offence when people would suggest that the victims of tragedies were not only not really victims... but were actually actors and frauds ( thus not only negating a tragic death, but inferring that these people are actually morally bankrupt charlatans )... well it pushed my indignation to ever increasing heights.

Sadly my reaction, and the reaction of others who felt the same way, only served to further the cause of those who pushed the false flag idea. Each time anyone shows indignation it seems to offer only “proof”, to believers, that they are right. They see all opposition to their beliefs as an organized attempt to marginalize or silence them. In playing the victim card, in this manner, they fomented a fair amount of support from the community and their voices became increasingly louder and more resolute. The battle cry of “This must be true because the shills are out in force” tended to add weight to their claims – bringing sympathy and allies.

Thus, the kind of circular rhetoric that used to be confined to the 9/11 forum, the chemtrail forum, and arguments about whether or not the lunar landings were faked, suddenly spilled over into the new forums, the current event forums, the general conspiracies forums, and even the light hearted “off topic” areas of the boards.

For better or for worse, the culture of our community has changed and, for now at least, we live in a world where everything is considered a false flag. From a shoplifting bust at Wal Mart to, God forbid, airline crashes or natural disasters – all things immediately spawn a “Was this another false flag” trend of threads. Those are soon followed by “proof” threads that devolve into debates over minutia, usually based upon Youtube videos and blurry pictures.

Another unfortunate development in all of this is that much of the “evidence” the false flag crowd wishes to offer is of a nature that violates this sites Terms and Conditions. Many of the people who do promote false flag ideas are respectful of the site rules and do their best to remain within them ( Kudos to you good folks, by the way ) - but others manipulate this reality to their own ends. They post things that they know will be removed – solely with the agenda of manufacturing dissent by screaming censorship. They know that ATS will not publicly address why posts or threads are removed – nor will ATS publish private communications involving these people. So they take that opportunity to write their own false narratives of what exactly happened... all to create a situation where they can claim that their theories must be true – because TPTB are seeking to silence them.

That's right folks. Some of the proponents of the false flag movement are creating their own false flags to further their cause and to confuse the facts. How messed up is that? Think about it for a few minutes.

In the end much of the argument is based in a sort of “We know that false flags have happened before, therefore it is safe to assume that THIS is one as well” absolutist approach. An assumption that the possible is probable and then approaching it from there. IMO there is far too much conformation bias involved. If one is looking for “clues”, with a predisposed notion of what will be found, then that persons eye will inevitably be drawn to anything and everything that might support their theory, while ignoring all that does not. I believe that, to a large degree, this is driven by emotion rather than by logic. Sadly this goes hand in hand with being human.
From my personal perspective this situation does have a genesis point. The Aurora, Colorado shootings. From my memory the first truly shocking thing I can recall reading was a post contending that Aurora was faked and that James Holmes is actually a heroic martyr and the only real victim of that “faked” event.

My jaw was agape when I read those words. Had a person in my real life spoken such things in my presence I am positive that my reaction would have been one of pure aggression. Being that this is the Internet my only recourse was to use my keyboard to voice my feelings about what I felt was a totally inappropriate and shameless insult to the victims of the shooting and their families. To my shock and dismay several people immediately responded by inferring that I was either a shill, a sheeple, or asleep. An ad-hom attack meant to totally marginalize my opinions. It left a bad taste in my mouth that remained for a very long time. A taste made much more bitter by having to watch countless others silenced in the same manner.

As of late, that bitter taste has finally gone away – allowing me to try and empathize with those I do not agree with. The subject and the methods of attack have evolved a bit, but the dialogue, since then, has remained largely the same – just on a much grander scale. This thickened my skin and numbed me to the rhetoric, allowing me perspective free from personal indignation. Thus, now, I can voice some of my thoughts and opinions without fearing that I am speaking from a place of emotion and reaction.

edit on 5/5/13 by Hefficide because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 5 2013 @ 11:38 PM
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Seeking To Understand



As odd as it may sound, I have spent the last couple of weeks of my life truly trying to empathize with the false flag crowd. I've been struggling to get into their headspace so that I might better understand their emotional attachments to their ideas. I felt that if I could do as much, I might find common ground from which to discuss this issue with them. A way to bridge the rhetoric, mistrust, and polarized thinking.

My initial belief was that our community has been infiltrated by agent provocateurs. People sent here to plant seeds of dissent. A psychological operation with military or Federal backing. This is not a new way of dealing with opposition to authority at all nor is it one that is uncommon today. Law enforcement will use this trick to catch criminal groups. The Occupy movement was also infiltrated in a similar way. If those in power feel threatened by a community they simply create lies that will either push the community over the line, giving the authorities an excuse to attack – or that will serve to sway popular opinion against said community. An example would be those who feel that Westboro Baptist Church is actually a psyop to sway popular opinion against Christianity. It is not a complicated thing at all to send in a few well scripted players to stir a pot and poison a well. This is how I perceive(d) a few of those I have encountered over the past 6, or so, months. This is a position I still firmly believe – as I have watched a small number of people show up, post on just ONE issue, very, very vocally, using the machinations I described above, and successfully create memes within the community that persist to this day.

But that only explains a very small percentage of the people who post here. The vast majority of the proponents of the false flag theories seem to be everyday people looking for answers. It is this group that I care about understanding... those who don't seem to have agendas. Those who have more than one area of interest. Those who seem to care deeply for what they are saying and the state of the world as it is.



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 11:38 PM
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Regarding them I have come to the following conclusions:

1) Media has had a detrimental effect upon our society. It has altered our understanding of reality in some very damaging ways. Thanks to television and movies we tend to be far more shallow regarding physical beauty and materialism than we customarily would be. We also tend to start wanting to view our everyday lives through the prism of dramatic presentation. We want to find the “plot” when, in real life, often no plot exists. Media presented us with an abstract, idealized, distorted view of reality. Over the course of a few generations exposure to this has damaged our ability to think in ways contrary to the media based paradigms. Reality television was the last nail in the coffin, regarding this, as it totally obscures the lines between what is real and what is drama. Also, seeing things as drama is much more emotionally fulfilling and gives us something to banter about.

2) Modern society overly feeds the ego. Our culture has become a very self-oriented way of living where we tend to spend a lot of time bolstering ourselves at the expense of all else. In the name of perpetually feeling “good”, where we expect immediate gratification of all things at all times – most of us have become far to self-indulgent and unable to empathize with others. This leads to a situation where we tend to get ideas into our head and hold onto them with pit-bull tenacity – no matter what anyone else says. We feel that we are right for no better reason than, well, we just know we are right – our lack of exposure to difficulty means that our ability to compromise or entertain varying opinion has atrophied.

3) Anonymity and the digital ego are also involved. While I am a very vocal proponent about the need for anonymity on the Internet, I also see the downside to it. Anonymity removes accountability. For some this means that they can troll and play games without fear of reprisal. For others it means that they can be far less open to caring about the feelings of others than they would in a real life situation. Some will even pick the contentious positions simply because they like to argue on the Internet – and not because they have any belief at all in what they are saying or promoting. It's just lulz for them. Sadly others simply see a post getting a lot of flags and stars and parrot the post simply to get the instant approval and the endorphine rush that accompanies it. That rush proves addicting, so the person runs around reposting the opinion – having lost all sight of what they are actually saying.

4) The deep seated need to belong also factors in. It feels good to be part of something. Some people are more than willing to jump on any bandwagon simply to sate this desire.

5) There is a great deal of resentment towards governments, the world over right now. That has created a predisposition toward people simply assuming the worst whenever they possibly can. A sort of projection of angst that latches onto any target of convenience. It is more emotionally fulfilling to say “Yep, its the damn government” than it is to say “Wow, yet another idiot went ballistic”. The tragedy in this is that this approach does nothing to address the underlying causes for both OUR angst and the angst or illness that drove the miscreant to taking the lives of innocents. Our society would be much more healthy if we could just own it and say “I don't like paying so much in taxes – and we need to do something to stop these people from going on killing sprees. What can we do to resolve both problems???” The way we are headed, the only answers people end up offering are vague and abstract notions of overthrowing the government, or getting THEIR party back in office, or bugging out and disconnecting from it all. None of which deal with any of the underlying issues.

Again, the above, individually or in toto, doesn't necessarily apply to every person who feels that every bad event is a false flag. Each person is unique and all have their own mix of factors. However I am positive that the above does apply to some, to one degree or another. Having said that, I think that the next entry, number five, is the most telling. I think it is the near universal constant involved:
edit on 5/5/13 by Hefficide because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 11:38 PM
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6) It is comforting to think of these events as “false flags”. Believing so implies some level of control over the chaos of life. It removes the potential for random things and supplants that with the notion that it's all planned and that somebody, somewhere is in control of it all. It is much more calming to imagine an evil person, or small group of people, being behind every tragedy than it is to believe that people sometimes go nuts, for reasons we cannot at all control, and then kill unknowing and innocent bystanders for no better reason than they were there. This goes a step further with those who believe that nobody even dies in these tragedies. This is the ultimate in insulation from reality... It allows a person to create a cocoon of false security – feeling that these things simply do not happen at all. That it, really is, after all, all just a movie – only one that is being played out for political power as opposed to simply for entertainment.

Closing thoughts



In the end I am aware that false flags have occurred over the course of history. Having said that I am also aware of countless other methods of political machination that are more common, more effective, and much less dangerous. Propaganda being the most prevalent and successful. Being an open minded person I have no objection at all to anyone posing the question “Is THIS a false flag??” and then discussing the pros and cons of that idea.

But that is not really what we've been seeing lately, is it? What we have been seeing are some very vocal people saying “This, this, this, and THIS were definitely false flags and I refuse to see it any other way. I know I am right and that's that!” To me this is both a tragic and frightening development within our community ( Not just ATS, but on a much larger scale ). Blind devotion to any idea, no matter what it is, is so very severely limiting and damaging to logic and to what's correct and right.

To me maybe the ultimate tragedy in all of this is that a community that was once made cohesive by a man in power saying “You're either for us or against us” is not being rendered asunder by the exact same thing, from within. People here saying that if you don't agree, then you must be one of “them”. The very thing that united us now fragments us into factions and diminishes any influence or power that we once held as a collective. All that while blind rhetoric increasingly marginalizes our community in the eyes of the rest of society.

I came to ATS to be informed, not to be popular or “right”. I stayed because I felt like I was part of something special and dynamic. It is my heartfelt wish that this community returns to being rooted in rational discourse and idea building, rather than a hive of entrenched rhetoric and antagonism.

Frankly, for a group of people who are inclined to believe that others are out to get us – I have to say that there is probably no need. We're doing a Hell of a job of that all by ourselves.

Now, I earnestly invite those who do feel that all of these tragic events have been false flags to come and convince me otherwise – using plain language and rational arguments. For, while I am fairly sure you will feel that I am out to get you, the truth is that I am merely trying to understand. I really do want to be able to say, at the least, that I can see where you are coming from, even if I disagree with the conclusions. So far that just isn't happening. I have yet to see a respectful, cohesive, compelling argument for the theory offered. I would honestly love to take part in such as discussion as that.

I would also humbly invite anyone else who has thoughts or feelings on this issue to engage as well. I honestly feel that it is an overdue conversation – one which needs to happen for the sake of this community.

Regardless of where anyone reading my words stands on this issue, I would like to feel that we can seek to find some common ground and mutual respect here. All of our opinions are valid and worth consideration. Facts are facts, things written in immutable stone – but opinions are much more fluid and personal. I do my best to respect the opinions of others, as I have only my own experiences to base my own opinions upon and understand that others do have differing perspectives based upon their own personal experiences. I ask only that we all approach this conversation with that understanding.

Thanks everyone.
~Heff

edit on 5/5/13 by Hefficide because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 01:37 AM
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Wow!

Thanks, Heff, for posting this. Between this and your recent thread on depression (which I also suffer through) you've said a lot of what I'd like to say much better than I can say it.

I haven't made many posts on ATS. One reason is because sometimes, if I don't immediately denounce the official or mainstream account of something, I get told I'm being naive or just one of the "sheeple" (A term I absolutely hate). I don't go away with hurt feelings or anything like that, I just find myself thinking "Why bother? No one wants to rationally discuss the evidence and possibilities, they just want to pound out they're own theory and shout down the opposition."

The strength of this site has always been the wide range of people, ideas, and experiences and our willingness to use them to try to the truth about whatever grabs our interest. Lately, it does seem like almost every interesting discussion gets hijacked into "It's a false flag!" , "OK, what's your evidence?" "Well, if you can't see it then you're a shill/disinfo agent/part of the problem because any explanation except mine is just the powers that be lying to us!"

What you've said might go a long way to helping us get back on track. Your record here as a member and a moderator show you to be rational and honest, willing to give reasons for your thinking, willing to listen to others give their reasons, and even willing to admit when wrong or changing your mind on something.

Thanks again.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 05:55 AM
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As always Heff an awesome well thought out thread. (you been in the shower again ?)

I find myself in complete agreement with you, when it was raised that Sandy Hook could have been a false flag I was gobsmacked. The reason ? "We didn't see the bodies". Well as desensitised as I am, to be honest I have no wish to see dead children's bodies shot up and covered in gore.

Had bodies of been produced they would have been the new trend on ATS 'actors working for the government'

Sometimes a tragedy is just that, .a tragedy and the affected people's feeling should be taken into account.

Using a false flag thread as a star and flag whore thing is IMHO exactly the opposite of what ATS is about.

Just my opinion

Cody



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 08:15 AM
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Excellent read. Flagged and stars from me.

This should be food for thought for many here on ATS and while I do feel that everyone should have a right to post their thoughts and ideas here on ATS, I think that if we had a bit more critical thinking and a lot less knee jerk responding would go a long ways in helping us in this area.

I'm reminded of a commercial done by MetLife and the Peanuts Gang:



"Not everything can be five cents!"

Reminds me a lot of: "Not everything is a false flag."



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 12:39 PM
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Awesome commentary, Heff !
You bring up a very good question, and it is good to just get it out and discuss both sides of the controversy.
I am not a black/white person, and all those shades of grey are sometimes very confusing, too. But I see Americans (the awake ones) , kind of like someone married to a liar. We know that not everything the government tells us is true, most of it is slanted to present the story they want told, and some of it is outright deception. So, you have to pick through EVERYTHING they present to you, and try to decide what is truth, and what isn't.

It used to be that people pretty much trusted the government, believed what we were told, and questioned nothing. Then, the Kennedy Assassination came along, it was huge, and so all the inconsistencies stood out, and people everywhere started asking, " who really killed Kennedy, and why" , and that started us down the trail of believing that we are being told lies. Obviously, once you have found ONE lie, then you have to question everything else from there on out.
Now, we have arrived at the point you are describing; three main groups, one believing everything, one believing nothing, and the other group, trying to discern truth, in the midst of confusion. I totally agree with you, that some of the confusion is furthered by people that are there to deliberately lead us down the flagged trail, and some just want to wave their arms, and be heard, regardless.
I , personally, don't think that everything is a false flag, but neither is it all just one person going crazy and shooting up innocent people. I think somethings are done by our government, to promote an agenda, but I also think that some are outside attacks, and the government simply covers up the truth, to keep the people calm; and, sometimes, it IS just one crazy person. Kind of like looking at a forest, it is only one forest, but there are all kinds of trees in there, making up the forest. You have to look at every single tree to determine what it is, and some are pretty similar.
I think you have started a much needed thread, and I am looking forward to seeing where this goes.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide

To me maybe the ultimate tragedy in all of this is that a community that was once made cohesive by a man in power saying “You're either for us or against us” is not being rendered asunder by the exact same thing, from within. People here saying that if you don't agree, then you must be one of “them”. The very thing that united us now fragments us into factions and diminishes any influence or power that we once held as a collective. All that while blind rhetoric increasingly marginalizes our community in the eyes of the rest of society.

edit on 5/5/13 by Hefficide because: (no reason given)


I think that as long as we continue to persevere in the midst of people who are trying fracture our collective greatness, then everything will turn around and be okay. It may take time. Do we feed the insanity with replies or do we ignore? Do we leave one liners just to piss people off. Yeah a lot of people do. I ignore.

Its like a bump in the road, or getting knocked off a horse. You have to get back up and be strong. Not quite like shutting off your humanity, but realizing that you do have power. You as a person are in control. You can't let emotions get the best of you. When they do, then we learn the lesson and log it in the brain for later retrieval. It is not easy.

The OP has raised very valid points with eloquence and a true thought out post. Thank you.




edit on 6-5-2013 by Starwise because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by tumbleweed45
 


Yes I am in the discerning group.
I tend to ignore the obviously far out there posts...
I like the analogy of the forest...



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 01:14 PM
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To the OP..

I think your OP is a conspiracy to make me read more!! AAAaaahhhh!!! /eyestearup

Err.. ummm...

Seriously. It amazes me as well. I do tend to write it off as things just happening too fast in society and people are dazed and confused by it. Nobody really has any REAL grasp of the over all picture and people can sense something is afoot but not sure what so they go by what they know... personal world views. We hear so much bad news... it is like Future Shock or something.

Of course there are those who just wish to try and be "first" in their predictions. A few that just wish to vent ideas too.

I mean... I do realize that government can and has done some pretty bad things. Same with corporations. But some ideas that percolate out if just given a little bit of serious thought would debunk themselves.

Just like the Nibiru thread I seen this morning with it only being able to be seen from the south pole station. If one were to think just for a second what a planet that close would do to tides. techtonics and weather then they would check themselves.

Then there is always that 29%..

edit on 6-5-2013 by Terminal1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 01:16 PM
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Oh and NB4 someone asks you why you are here.. this is a consiracy site after all.

Second.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Let me first say that I personally do not believe that many of the events that have occurred recently are false flag events, or at least there is no conclusive proof of the being so. Having said that I will give my opinion on why people may be certain that they were.

First off, the mainstream media and the US government has proven themselves to be in cohoots and blatant liars time and time again. Rather this being protecting large banks and corporations or refusing to tell the truth about or foreign policy schemes, these groups have almost zero credibility left with anyone who remotely pays attention to events in the world.

Next is the fact that all of these stories have glaring inconsistencies over the course of reporting them. This could be chalked up to mishaps in an attempt be the first to report something or other such things, but they are definitely there. And there also almost always seems to be some crucial evidence that the average public isn't allowed to see (ie all of the videos of the Pentagon in 9-11 that were confiscated). This makes people think that there is something being hidden.

The next factor is something that you have mentioned, that false flags have occurred in the past, and by supposed free and peace loving governments like the US. The Gulf of Tonkin for instance. Also, documents such as the Operation Northwoods show that the people at the highest level of our government have at least considered attacking its own people for political gain. This alone, even if it has never happened, ought to be very alarming to everybody.

Along those lines is the fact that we can see how inhuman these governments can be. There is a laundry list of appalling offenses that have been done to ordinary people by the government, rather it be medical experiments (Tuskeegee) to drones attacks that blatantly kill innocents. This paints a picture of the government that is capable of committing horrific false flag attacks on its own people.

Next would be that even if these attacks are what we are told they are, they are still almost always used for the political gain of our politicians. 9-11 equaled an excuse to attack Iraq and Afghanistan, Sandy Hook gun control, and etc. This on its own is disgusting to me, to use such tragedies for personal gain seems unthinkable.

So maybe anyone of those reasons alone isn't enough to point to a false flag, but when all combined it paints an ugly picture; that our government and media lie to us, that they routine kill innocents, that they seem to relish when tragedies hit us so they can increase their poll numbers and ratings and get laws they want passed, and that anytime on of those tragedies happen the narrative of it is constantly changing.

This is where I am at on most situations. And so given all of those facts, I tend to not take what I am being told during these tragedies at face value, and I have questions. And to me, this is where the really interesting thing happens.

I am told to shut up. That I am hurting the victims, that I am unpatriotic, that I am helping the terrorist win. And when that is the average media persons and politicians response, it makes me think even more that they have something to hide.

But I still can't say for certainty that any recent event was a false flag. I just have questions about the official stories.

As far as what you have noticed about more and more people jumping on the false flags being definite, a couple of points. One I don't think this is the norm outside ATS. That is just kind of what you get on a conspiracy site.

The other thing is that I think you are right that some people go overboard with it and think everything is a false flag. But can you blame them. They have been lied to and robbed by the very government that is feeding them these stories time and time again. I think you should be more disappointed in our media and elected officials that are so greedy and such compulsive liars that many people now can't hear a simple story from them without thinking its a conspiracy.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Hello Heff,

Thanks for the thread, I know that the ideas that you are working with are very difficult to articulate, as I am wrestling with the same stuff.

There is a lot to think about, in what you have written up there; I have a few initial impressions.

The first is that, as a nation, we seem to have been here before; 100 years ago...


In late April 1919, at least 36 booby trap dynamite-filled bombs were mailed to a cross-section of prominent politicians and appointees, including the Attorney General of the United States, as well as justice officials, newspaper editors and businessmen, including John D. Rockefeller.

Among all the bombs addressed to high-level officials, one bomb was notably addressed to the home of a Federal Bureau of Investigation (BOI) field agent once tasked with investigating the Galleanists, Rayme Weston Finch, who in 1918 had arrested two prominent Galleanists while leading a police raid on the offices of their publication Cronaca Sovversiva.

The mail bombs were wrapped in brown paper with similar address and advertising labels. Inside, wrapped in bright green paper and stamped "Gimbel Brothers - Novelty Samples.", was a cardboard box containing a six-inch by three-inch block of hollowed wood about one inch in thickness, packed with a stick of dynamite.

Response

Fueled by labor unrest and the anarchist bombings, and then spurred on by Attorney General A. Mitchell Palmer's attempt to suppress radical and non-radical labor organizations, it was characterized by exaggerated rhetoric, illegal search and seizures, unwarranted arrests and detentions, and the deportation of several hundred suspected radicals and anarchists.

Attorney General A. Mitchell Palmer, twice targeted by anarchist bombs, organized the nationwide series of police actions, known as the Palmer raids, in November 1919 and January 1920. Under suspicion of violating the Espionage Act, the Sedition Act, and/or the Immigration Act of 1918, approximately 10,000 people were arrested, of which 3,500 were held in detention. Of those held in detention, 556 resident aliens were eventually deported.

The bombing campaign added to the Red Scare of 1919–1920, a widespread fear that radicals planned to overthrow the United States government and replace it with a Bolshevist dictatorship like that established by the Russian Revolution.

en.wikipedia.org...


We keep going in a circle with all of this stuff, Heff, and I have come to believe that it is due to something about ourselves that we are unwilling to face, as a people.

Historian Mircea Eliade put forth the idea that man was incapable of facing and dealing with what Eliade called the "The terror of linear history" and that in order to avoid it, that we escape into our cyclic mythologies.

There is some mythology that we must live out that seems to me is characterized by the cultural and societal mores of the "Cold War". You know, all that spy vs spy stuff. I can't put a finger on it quite yet; but for some reason we need to go there, instead of getting off the merry-go-round, and it aint' going to be pretty.

I guess all I can add at the moment is that it is important to realize that Salem would not have happened if everyone had not wanted it to; they were all keeping one another amused. It gets all #ty like that when people don't want to face themselves. They devour one another.

That's what Colloseums are for.
edit on 6-5-2013 by Bybyots because:




posted on May, 6 2013 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide


Those are soon followed by “proof” threads that devolve into debates over minutia, usually based upon Youtube videos and blurry pictures.


 


You don't say?



I made one in sarcastic response to some of the others. Then got lambasted for not offering 100%, undeniable proof, against every accusation out there against the accusations.



Speaking entirely about the OP of the thread no less.

Although it was there. It was called, "using your noggin." I suggested to people simply think about the logistics behind the idea. And while it is an insurmountable body of work to address simply every accusation out there. If you take one by one, each point falls apart horridly under scrutiny.

The pictures they claim shows "actors" simply dont. The "professional opinion" that there isn't enough blood, that someone wouldn't live that long... etc, it's just BS. There are videos online of insurgents, blowed up, no legs, walking around on their hands cause they legs are now in smithereens.

For every accusation, there is a mountain of evidence to contradict it. But as you said, it's like chemtrails now. Believers will claw on to anything.

And when to be showed fraud on one angle, they will jump on another and not even apologize for the BS that came with the ideas now lying in the toilet.

It's very disgusting behaviour.




posted on May, 6 2013 @ 02:19 PM
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According to Plato we all live in a cave arguing shadows on a wall. The most of us have never seen the sun. So how could anything be the truth?

Until we leave the cave and suffer the pins and needles of real actual daylight, nothing is known to us. Nothing real that is.

Remember, the allegory of the cave does not allow for sometimes sitting in the cave and sometimes being outdoors. The implication is that none of us have ever seen the real sky, clouds or an ocean. Only fire lit shadows dancing on a wall.

I know how deep the rabbit hole goes. Telling it results in being vilified by humanity at large. They are quite comfortable in the cave made for them.

So what.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 02:43 PM
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I came to ATS to be informed, not to be popular or “right”. I stayed because I felt like I was part of something special and dynamic. It is my heartfelt wish that this community returns to being rooted in rational discourse and idea building, rather than a hive of entrenched rhetoric and antagonism.




That is exactly why I do not post as much as I want to or used to. I see many great topics and discussions become so overran by bickering and irrelevant back and forth that all useful information and ideas become pointless to talk about.

Overall, I agree that the false flag term is too wildly applied and negates the the seriousness of such an event.

I'd continue on, but I'd hate to....



parrot the post simply to get the instant approval and the endorphine rush that accompanies it.


edit on 6-5-2013 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 03:10 PM
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Hmmmm....I see that you are attempting to understand the psychology of the individual who sees "everything" as a false flag. In actuality, that is a simple task. The world has become a confusing place, one in which things are not as they appear, and behind every action which appears to be isolated, there are a lot of machinations taking place.

Tragedies do not happen in a vacuum. There are always dominoes which have fallen before the actual event which lead up to it....and, of course, the myriad of dominoes that fall after, in all kinds of directions. The trick is to discern whether those dominoes were set up by a conspiracy of evil for nefarious purposes, or just a bunch of accidental coincidences which caused people to snap.

You cannot really blame people for calling something a false flag when it occurs, particularly when the media reports conflicting information or outright lies. Our government tells so many lies that most of us just assume that whatever they tell us is just another steaming pile of bovine excrement. The media appears to operate in tandem with our lying government, as their tool of disinformation and psychological manipulation.

The internet feeds the confusion and dissent as people who automatically question tragedies search for the truth.

History has shown us that many tragedies and crimes are indeed creations of behind-the-scenes evildoers who do not care who gets hurt, as long as their agenda is pushed forward.

One has to only look at the tragedies which have occurred since JFK was executed in broad daylight to understand that people can be manipulated by horrific incidences of death and destruction in order to get them to accept certain things. Look at the government explanation, and then look at the facts. Can you blame people for getting to the point where every awful thing that happens is somehow a conspiracy which is blamed on something else entirely?

To me, 9/11 is the most glaring false flag since the burning of the Reichstag. Bear in mind that I do make a distinction between false flag (a criminal act blamed on an innocent party in order to further an agenda that would otherwise not be possible) and a conpiracy (a criminal act which is done to further an agenda or cover something up). False flags are used to stir up hatred and war-like feelings towards a perceived enemy. Conspiracies are done in order to get away with something.

I'm sorry, but to me, Sandy Hook was a false flag. There are too many holes in the story, and too many politicians using this tragedy to further an agenda that would otherwise not be possible (ie, gun control and/or confiscation). If we were to see surveillance footage, as we did in Columbine, and if the media would state the facts rather than say that an automatic rifle was used, then backpedal and say that it was pistols, then turn around AGAIN and push the "it was an automatic rifle" idea, then maybe there wouldn't be so much speculation.

Too many incidences have gone from conspiracy theory to conspiracy fact. One only has to look at who benefits, and how quickly an agenda was trotted out and shoved down our throats, and then work backwards, to see this. The fact that The Patriot Act was written before 9/11 tells me volumes. If you don't find this alarming, then you're not thinking this through.

I like to go on facts, but when we're fed a bunch of conflicting nonsense, strange evidence, MISSING evidence, and glaring holes in the story big enough to drive a Mac truck through, many of us cannot help but assume the worst.

You yourself admitted in your OP that there are agent provocateurs at large here on this site, spreading the seeds of misinformation; ipso facto, a conspiracy. This is true all over the internet. I myself am in no particular camp. If I find the story is strange, I will examine it further, and that includes all the angles, no matter how gory or upsetting. To advocate denial of ignorance, only to refuse to look at things because you don't want to be in the "conspiracy false/flag nutter camp" is advocating ignorance in order to avoid "fitting in" with the "wrong crowd".

I go with no crowd. I am my own person. Any tragedy I examine always starts with this basic premise: "Cui Bono". Who benefits? More often than not, the beneficiary is a corporation, bank or government. I will not shy away from the truth because it points in that direction. It is my duty, as a citizen of this country, to try and understand if my fellow citizens are victims of false flags. Our very republic is at stake. Villify me if you must, but do not take away my right to question things that are could be used as a convenient excuse to shred the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

Thank you for the thought-provoking and well-written post.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 03:11 PM
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Well if the corrupt PTB would've never false flagged us to begin with, we wouldn't have this problem.

As time passes and awareness steadily inclines, the pieces of this big puzzle become more and more revealing. One can come to expect the influx in criticism.

Personally, I think it's good thing. Once motives and the overall concept behind false flags, corruption, and deception can be comprehended, it makes the already acknowledged devious plans of the PTB harder to execute. Every event from here on out is going to get picked to pieces......and rightfully should.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 03:13 PM
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So ya want to get inside my head, well ok. Put on your tin foil hat, and hang on.......

It's people thinking for themselves. It's distrust of government.

It's not believing anything that comes across the old boob-tube. Try not watching TV for a week, and read a book or two or four during the interim, then turn your TV back on and all the propaganda suddenly smacks you right in the face. Eat this, watch that, but our product.

TPTB are trying to control us, with all their failed solutions and worthless ideas, and no concern is given to the pile of debt we are leaving to our progeny.

There's no accountability in gubberment anymore, just a free meal ticket to further their agenda, with no concern for our rights and Constitution.

To uphold the Constitution? Not anymore. To protect the Citizens? Not at the expense of our freedoms. It's a firm line drawn in the dirt, the same dirt that belongs to us because our forefathers fought for it, and spilled their blood on it, so we could be free.

With all the recent tragedies, going back to 911, our government has failed us. They are not protecting us anymore, not with children being murdered and marathon supporters being killed and wounded. Their policies simply do not work.

We have given up enough freedoms for our government's inability to protect us. What do they want, complete control? Every failure on their behalf leads to another page being ripped from the Constitution, and there is still no certainty for our future safety.

They distract us from seeing the truth. They have only their taxpayer funded salaries, and their own agendas with corporate America, feeding their greed. The welfare of the American people has been long forgotten. It's no longer about life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. It's all about money.

So the next time I see blaring inconsistencies in the MSM, being reported to us, I'll ask all of you reading to think of what's the next freedom to fly out the _ Patdowns of seniors and children at airports? Done that. More worthless gun control laws? How about a dry run in a Martial Law exercise?

How many more rights can we afford to lose? Only you can answer that, my friends.


edit on 5/6/13 by Druid42 because: spelling





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