Arctic Ice Melt "has the momentum of a runaway train."

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by pheonix358

 

Clearly math is not your strength. This does not show a pattern. The differences between the gaps is far to large for the number of samples.

Please stop the insults, it disturbs the thread.

The graphs have the same high point for each of the turnover points for the ice ages. An exact match for the last three ice ages. That indicates a direct correlation between polar temp and methane levels with CO2 emissions following with a delay. The question then is the escape of Methane causing the increase in temp or is the increase in temp causal to the methane levels.

I suspect that one causes the other and as stated above by erictheawful, it could be akin to a runaway train.

P

reply to post by poet1b


Thanks, I hope this thread doesn't go the way of most GLP threads on the subject. Climate dis-info propaganda has been so well ingrained in some people that they still think this is all a hoax aimed at getting more money - carbon tax credits, drill the Arctic, yada, yada....

This is the doom all the doomers have been looking for and they don't even realize it. If they looked at the recent spikes in methane and all the evidence they would be peeing their pants. This is bad bad bad.

I will be posting lots of recent events in the Arctic - evidence, not hearsay. If you want to read my latest at the Examiner it's here. I'm normally not so brutal in my articles but I'm tired of dancing around the subject and trying to be "politically correct". We need to take the gloves off and figure this out - if that's even possible.

www.examiner.com...

EAST SIBERIAN SEA MELTING WILL BRING HIGH END OF SUMMER METHANE CONCENTRATIONS OVER THE ARCTIC OCEAN AROUND THE BERING STRAIT

The sea ice cover around Yakutia has been disappearing much earlier this year than during the two previous years. This region is important as the sea ice hides methane ice and shallow water beneath it. The dark ocean water mops up suns heat and some of this then eats into methane clathrates on the sea bed. As the process has already started we will see very high methane levels from this area at the end of summer. Cryosphere Today, 28.04.2013.

AND

LATEST FORECA TEMPERATURE LEGEND MAP FOR THE ARCTIC OCEAN

Siberia's snow cover can now last only days as temperatures in Yakutia have exceeded 20C (70F). Large floods are to be expected with melt water rushing into the Arctic Ocean extremely rapidly. The sea ice will correspondingly melt now very fast. Images as at 1st May 2013.

reply to post by TheWriterChick


Welcome WriterChick.

I'm sure you'll fit right in. I find the weather as of late, erratic. Both sides of the climate debate are interesting and compelling.

I look forward to your thoughts on the subject.

Cirque

reply to post by TheWriterChick


I think I have posted that chart on a thread here myself not too long ago. Thanks for joining the discussion.

I'm not normally an alarmist, but the last two years have complete changed everything.

Bad, bad, bad is a pretty good description.

reply to post by TheWriterChick
Please use links, and use quote for what is not your own writings, i try to follow this thread and would like to see the source, as people opinions in here, in many cases just obscure the subject.

Here is a link to a study that explain the posible impact from man in this topic, as many says, it could be cyclic or natural, and my opinion to that is that man is adding to that natural balance making it accelerate.

Please read the 9 pagechapter below, or the whole document if you like, some interesting info is there.

The Effect of Localized Man-Made Heat and Moisture Sources in Mesoscale Weather Modification

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by BlueMule

 

At this point it really is too late.

Your best shot is to move the family someplace where you have the best shot at survival.

already done that. sub-tropical, high rainfall, good timber nearby, lots of cow dung/fertilizer; sparsely populated, springs, nowhere near big cities. way to go!

reply to post by TheWriterChick

I will be posting lots of recent events in the Arctic - evidence, not hearsay.

That's commendable. Could you provide some more information on this alleged White House emergency meeting?
So far, all sources reporting on this are just rehashing the bits of information from the guardian article or the West Australian.

The W.A. piece starts by stating this:

In a room at the White House next week, an extraordinary meeting of the brightest minds will attempt to form a strategy to curb climate change's crippling effects on the Arctic.

and ends with:

At the White House meeting, he and other scientists have been asked to come up with scenarios that will inform research program on changes in the Arctic and the impacts on Arctic ecosystems.The Arctic is thought to be warming twice as fast as NASA's calculation of a 0.8C rise in temperatures globally since 1880.

There is also nothing to be found here or here.

reply to post by TheWriterChick


Welcome to ATS.
I hope your scientist friend is wrong.

I found Dan Millers' "A really inconvenient Truth" to be quite enlightening.

The time lapsed satellite image of the artic ice melt alone left my mouth agape.

Seems as if we really are heading for a horrific ending and we didn't even cause it.

Like they say in Texas, "Oil Well!!!"

???

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

Um, the flooding isn't supposed to happen until the Antarctic glaciers melt, on the other side of the planet from the Arctic Ocean.

Ocean rises where expected in a hundred years, but we could start seeing a serious rise in sea levels within a decade.

edit on 5-5-2013 by poet1b because: Auto correct hassles

Ice takes up 9% more space than water. An iceberg has 90% of mass under water so when it melts the rise in seawater isn't noticable. The ice on land is what causes the rise

reply to post by poet1b


We just had our most serious and cold winter ever. Global Warmists actually had to admit their computer model was too eager on global warming, because it turns out the Earth isn't warming as much as expected. So now they come up with sensationalist news. "Whoaw! Everybody! Our New Advanced Fancy Supermodel Computing Gizmo Warned Us That The Artic Will ALL Melt in Only 2 Years!!!" They are just looking for attention. Al Gore's prediction came to a total flop and now them global warmers don't know what to do since Earth hasn't warmed up since 16 years.

reply to post by swan001


Swan, perhaps then you can explain why the polar ice is melting. If the earth has not increased in temperature why is the ice melting?

P

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by pheonix358

 

Clearly math is not your strength. This does not show a pattern. The differences between the gaps is far to large for the number of samples.

No pattern?



Source of Chart

You do not see how the amount of methane in the chart shows rises sharply, slowly declines, then rises sharply and again slowly declines over the last 420,000 years according to the ice core sample?

While I understand you want to defend your position on how you feel about AGW Climate Change, and you have demonstrated you are very enthusiastic when it comes to this subject, insulting, being rude, and belittling others does not help make any discussion on it move forward.

There is a cycle there that can not be simply swept under a carpet or ignored. Methane levels over the past 420k years have had a cycle to them. The data clearly shows that.

A better argument from you as humans being the cause this time around, would be to show how the levels of methane reported now are much higher than the peak cycles in the past (not calling someone's education into question).

Personally I'm on the fence about AGW Climate Change. I do believe in Climate Change, the ice records and geological records clearly show that Earth's climate is a very dynamic thing that can go through all sorts of extremes without any humans around.

However the skeptic in me questions everything: AGW claims AND AGW Deniers. As everyone should and use critical thinking and one's own research into this area.

If your research leads you to believe in AGW climate change, that is great for you, and you should argue with cold, hard facts. Not with insults and rude behavior. Also a calm demeanor would help too.

Not getting in someone's face and shouting: WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE! ARE YOU ALL IDIOTS? That tends to turn people off, especially those that might be sitting on the fence over this.

You want to compel people to believe in what you believe, then do it with hard facts and data. Not sensationalism and insulting others.

That goes for the AGW Deniers too. They are very guilty of the exact same thing not only here on ATS but many other places too.

Bottom line: it would be nice to actually read a Climate Change thread here on ATS without all the name calling, insulting, belittling that get's thrown around every single time.

I and I'm sure many others here on ATS would rather read about the subject and see the data presented, instead of someone calling someone else's parentage into question.

reply to post by pheonix358


No it doesn't. Put up the numbers and you will see that variation is too large for the sample.

In addition, include links to any charts you put up if they are to be taken seriously.

Originally posted by pheonix358
reply to post by swan001

 

Swan, perhaps then you can explain why the polar ice is melting. If the earth has not increased in temperature why is the ice melting?

P

Er.. Just a thought here, but maybe it's because Russian and US nuclear submarines and oil industries want to exploit that strategic area in the near future? Even global warmers admit that:

www.thesimonsfoundation.ca...
www.globalresearch.ca...
www.geopoliticalmonitor.com...

I live in Quebec. In here industries literally dynamite a whole mountain off just to put a road through it. I wish you could see it... You are admiring the landscape, and oops, suddenly here it comes, a chopped mountain. US and Russia and oil industries have more than dynamite now. The have bombs. It's sickening how greed affects nature.

They just detonate a couple of those under the ice sheet, boom, nobody knows, the Russian don't know, and we blame Global Warming. The perfect plan.

Originally posted by muse7
Nothing to worry about kids.

This is just another lie by those damn liberal tree huggers!

Will they still be saying that when their in water that is neck high?

They'll be selling rubber boats and proclaiming that it's natural.

Problem is, natural or not, we're not helping it and we certainly can't survive an earth much different to the one we evolved on.

Bam, take that humans. - mother earth wiping her brow.

wow, that graph on page 3 of this thread by eriktheawful is pretty telling. Maybe it's just the angle I am looking at my computer screen but to me it seems to show that the temp increase is FOLLOWING the rise in methane not the other way around. Doesn't that add weight to the argument that the temp is being caused by the methane being released? And after reading through this thread (thanks OP for a great thread) I see that there are the usual "know it alls" who seem to have all of the answers as to how the sea level isn't really rising and that those pesky scientists are making all of this up and that now to "get attention" (sheesh, I almost wet myself laughing when I read that one) they are overstating the speed at which the ice is melting and the sea level is rising. Well imo, I see that the scientists, up until now, have been trying to keep their claims moderate so as NOT to panic people but the time has been reached to let people know where it looks like we are really heading.
so to all of those who are soooo quick to debunk all of this info, please, please please move to an ocean front dwelling. After all there's nothing to worry about, .................. is there?

reply to post by greatfriendbadfoe


If the sea is rising so much, how come new islands started popping out of nowhere? How come seas in Middle East are dropping? How comes glaciers don't feed water to California anymore?

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
So - if this is to be the case - that methane will flood the earth and cause our breaths to become dying gasps..

You don't think that humans would create some sort of apparatus to wear - or create bio-domes and filter the air?

Do you really think this will be the end all of us?

I don't. But, hey, I'm an optimist.

We can't even help ourselves if there is a lot of unexpected rain. We drown in floods.
We can't even help ourselves if there is a large unexpected fire. We burn in infernos.
If things fall from the sky, we die. If the earth pops up and blows smoke at us, we die.

We're only good when things stay the same... and we're the cause of a LOT of change.

Just because the earth spins it's own natural way, doesn't mean we're not adding momentum.

We're not much good, out of our environment. Remove our houses and buildings, and the human species would pretty much die off except for a few scavengers. Not even a mad max in sight.